Dell Inspiron 1150 Power Problem

[MrTurd Ferguson]

I hope I'm posting this in the right spot, I've looked around I believe I'm in the right area. If I'm not could a moderator please move it to the correct section. I've also searched to try to find my answer but I don't bring up anything.

I was given a Dell Inspiron 1150 that only had a fully charged battery, no power supply for hooking it to the wall or charging the battery. The guy said the laptop had a bad hard drive, so I took one I had and dropped in it. I put the Windows XP disk in and started formatting the hard drive to install Windows XP. Well it got to about 35% or so on the formatting and the battery light came on. I knew it was going to cut off but I hoped it would last just a little longer.

I got up to take my dog out to use the yard and when I came back the laptop was dead, I assume it was from the battery going dead. I don't have the original or correct power supply with the sensor pin. So I started searching the net to try to find the pin-out for the motherboard power connector, which I did. Actually I found a whole lot of information on that and how these laptops were prone to the problem of the connector breaking loose. So I decided that I would just straight wire the laptop long enough to get the hard drive formatted and get Windows up and going and then I figured I would start hunting a power supply.

I really didn't want to take it apart but I did anyway. I soldered a wire to the ground pins on the bottom of the motherboard and then I soldered another wire to the positive pins. I put a small hole under the power jack to run the wires out to a computer power supply that I converted into a lab power supply. I used a voltmeter to find the correct voltage, or close to it, I believe it was 21 volts to be exact. I got scared about going from 19 to 21 volts so I looked at the battery, it says it's only 14.8 volts. So I figured a regular power supply that put out 15 or so volts would be a better starting point. I got one of my other power supplies that I turned up to 15 or 16 volts, can't remember exactly and I hooked to it.

Now while I had the laptop apart...I cleaned everything and I made sure and certain I was grounded good before I touched anything. It was working keep in mind, before I took it apart. I cleaned the heatsink and processor and put Arctic Silver on it and the GPU heatsink. I blew the case out and the blew the motherboard off. After hooking it to the regular power supply of about 15 or so volts, the battery light blinks a few times in an amber color and then goes off. Leaving it connected for hours, it wouldn't charge.

I decided that since I had a Dell power supply that I cut the plug off and wired to use with another laptop, that I'd try it. It is only a 2 wire power supply but it puts out the 19 or 19.5 volts that the regular supply used with one of these puts out. So I connected to it, by bare wires...same thing...no power on or nothing. So at that point, I decided I need more power...and hooked to the 21 volts of the lab power supply and I got nothing again.

I've read where some had problems with the processor seating correctly, so I removed it about 1/2 a dozen times and I can't find any problem with it. It's a Celeron at 2.6ghz and I've even swapped a known working P4 into it and that didn't change anything either. I've tried it with and without the hard drive, the DVD drive, the RAM and I get nothing. Without the RAM I don't even get it to beep because I've never got it to even turn the fan over yet.

My question is could it be because I don't have the correct power supply with the center pin that it's not coming on? I did find here that the center pin was either 10 or 12 volts to tell the computer which supply it had. I checked my center by taking the laptop apart again and hooking power to it and I get 2.95 volts with just those two wires hooked to the supply. How does it have 2.95 volts when there is nothing connected to the center pin? I was thinking that when you connected the power supply with the correct plug that the center pins voltage was dragged down by a ground to turn the signal off and tell the laptop to start up. But according to what I've read, that isn't the case either...would it hurt to apply 12 volts or maybe just 10 volts to that pin to see if it would work and turn on? I'd be just happy if it would turn on even if it wouldn't charge the battery...I just want it to come on so I can finish installing Windows and use it a little until I can get the correct power supply.

Does anyone have any idea why this stupid laptop won't come on? It did until I took it apart, and I've taken many laptops apart and never had this problem. I've also taken many desktops apart and built my own machines too...never had this problem. Can someone please help me with this issue, please?

 

[juane414]

I don't know enough electrical stuff to help you out. I think you'd have better luck posting in the power supply section actually. It seems like you're going through a lot of work and risk. Why not just wait until you get a new power supply? I'm sure you could find one on Dell's website, ebay, or Amazon for pretty cheap. If done a bit of soldering with LCD displays and I know that it's not a quick and easy job. It seems that you're causing yourself a lot of unnecessary frustration. If you really want to figure it out, I would start a new thread in the Power Supply and Electronic Devices section. Good luck!

 

[MrTurd Ferguson]

Well, that's a good point and you're right. But it's not so much about taking the easy way as it is finding out how to get around it.

I have found out since posting this that the center pin of the Dell power supply, the PA-10, PA-12, PA-13 for sure, is used to transmit data to the laptop about the power supply. I was told previously that it applied voltage to the center pin of the laptop power jack, which is totally wrong. The laptop applies about 2.95 volts to that pin which powers an IC inside the power supply. There is some sort of information on that IC that is sent back down that same wire then somehow the laptop is reading this information to tell it how big the supply is, the wattage rating.

I was hoping it was simply a voltage issue and it could be fooled by using a resistor and a wire to the center pin to fool the laptop into thinking it had a Dell supply and one of a larger wattage, this isn't the case. It seems the only choices you do have are to either buy the factory style power supply OR build your own circuit with the IC which is discontinued. Another company is making an IC that will work and I guess if you have the dump from the original, which I do, then you could flash it to the new IC. There is a guy on the net that has posted this information on various newsgroups and I'm talking with him via email on this matter.

I have since ordered a factory power supply. The biggest issues I've seen is people buying aftermarket universal power adapters and them not charging the battery. The problem I was experiencing was due to not having a large enough wire feeding the laptop in the first place when I soldered onto the main board adapter jack. Lesson learned. I haven't tried since with a larger wire though. It seems that without the factory power supply you get a message about an unknown adapter and the battery won't charge.

I will post the information sent to me in an email later today along with the dump from the original Dell power supply IC for those who are interested.

 

[madhatter256]

Is the factory power supply direct from dell or a dell reseller? That's the only way I'd go.

I would also go back and undo everything you did to the laptop power connector. Although I'd enhance it to where the power connection is secure and won't get loose like others do. So if you did that, then keep it that way, but anything else just undo it.

You might have also messed the battery up, too. So, if it doesn't charge with the official hardware, then you probably shorted something inside it to prevent it from charging.

 

[MrTurd Ferguson]

Yeah I undid what I did with the power wire. I put it all back together and borrowed a power supply for a Dell. It all seems to work fine and well, that battery wasn't any good to start with, wouldn't hold a charge. So no damage done there...I'm going to get the cells to redo the battery with and make it a bit larger anyway...

The one I've seen on ebay are by normal joes but they are Dell supplies according the photographs I've ask for. But you make a good point...

 

[jombo]

Yea i too have same problem here. I have several 1150's as I been buying dead cheap ones off ebay last couple months. Sold a bunch of them after refurbing the things. I have 4 of them left here and only had 3 power supplys so I thought I would try a cheap one off ebay lol. That was a 9.75 waste with free shipping. It works not on any of them. The supply is good just don't work on the 1150's.

Beware of laptopz-outlet and 1150 power supplys.

The 1150's least all 10 I have refurbed have a lot of goofie troubles. Cat5 connectors on about 8 out of 10 were unusable the cables are too loose in em. And USB connectors on the things are not great quality either. And all of em even with Dell supplys the plugs all fit very loose. And the Wifi cards in everyone of the ones I had are slower than crap. AS in 6mbs on a 30mbs connection in a speed test. Sure not modern day Dell quality IMO. A PCMCIA wifi fixes that also.

But once you get past these troubles lmao you have a pretty tuff beat around laptop. I kept 2 of em here that needed new displays and used em as local linux web servers and linux mail. Stuck Network cards in the things and stuck em on my KVM. I know I sure hate to spend 20 or 25 bux on a power supply for a 15.00 laptop is all. (jombo is cheap) I kept 2 of the ones with good displays that were too ugly to resell as beat around laptops. I will have to continue sharing 1 supply between the 2 I use portable I guess.

I am going to do as you did and hardwire 1 that i use in my workshop out back I been thinking about it anyways. prolly can just use this lame supply that wont work and get around the center pin crap maybe. Have to do some testing if I ever feel like taking a working laptop apart that is.

 

[MrTurd Ferguson]

That center pin is a data pin that goes to an IC inside that power supply. Far as I know, if you straight wire it, it'll work. It should power the laptop but it won't charge a battery should one be present because the laptop won't be able to tell how big the wattage of the supply is.

And forget trying to "figure out what voltage" is on that data pin cause you'll never figure out how to replicate that without a chip like the one in the supplies. If you put voltage onto that pin, you better be prepared to replace a power supply and maybe your laptop.

I basically gave up on this project and bought a real supply, worked like a charm. Some laptops that I've worked on, I've seen repeatedly for the same issue with the power jack.

 

[jombo]

Sorry I brought up such an old post but I just sorta found your thread in a google search and had to register to throw in my 2 cents ya know. And you are quite right. But man 30.00 for a supply for a 15.00 laptop sorta makes me go itchy all over. lmao. Anyways this morning I took 1 of the 1150's apart and did a rewire on the power jack and this 10.00 supply is now just fine. It charges the battery ok and powers the laptop now with no battery.

The thing is now there is no cutoff when battery is charged so it is like lots of older laptops in that respect. That is a simple fix for me, I just added a timer to cutoff supply after an hour or so. For me this worked out ok as the laptop is a beat around out in my dirty dusty shop anyways. And now I will never have to worry about loose power jacks etc either. I just ran a jumper out the back and added a deans plug for the supply there. There is no power jack now it is long gone lol. The laptop did complain the 1st boot that the power supply wasn't the correct one. I just disabled the warning in bios and its working fine so far.

Maybe someday I will get a supply with a dead can't fix computer but till then this worked for me. Man i love that hat, seems I seen Burt in that hat on TV once.

 

[MrTurd Ferguson]

Ha-ha, that's from an old SNL episode where they were making fun of Jeopardy, look it up on the Tube and get a laugh.

I'd like to see how you did that wiring, that sounds interesting. You should have taken pictures and posted them here. There's a lot of people who have problems with laptops just like this, thousands. 90% of the laptops that I work on are over power plug problems where people are just careless with them and end up ruining the jack. God, you could tell people their laptop was worthless and they'd just be like "oh, ok...can you throw it away for me". If I weren't honest, I could probably have a pile of laptops sitting here right now.

It sucks for someone to go to Wal-mart and buy their universal supply only to find out it won't charge their battery on their Dell. The ones with that center pin, the data pin...that was a crap move by Dell to it's consumers, forcing them to buy "their" supply like that. I think they should all adapt to Apple's style of adapter plug.

You bringing up an old thread was a good thing cause it reminded me that I hadn't been here in awhile and that I needed to show my face again, so thanks.

 

[jombo]

Yea same here on the folks dragging in their broken junk. I got a shop full wall to wall out there with it. Those dumbies on ebay where I bought the PS refunded and didn't even send the thing back. 9.99 POS. To tell you the truth I would have to take it back apart to see what I did. I just sorta bypassed jack is what I did. It doesn't recognize the supply at all but it will run on it this way. And it charges the battery ok. I do notice that in XP the charge indicator don't function right it says battery is dead all the time even when it is running on battery. I really don't care about the bat anyways I don't intend to use it mobile.

Here is an interesting tidbit on the 1150 and other dells. I have fixed several with this trouble. http://www.hardwareanalysis.com/content/topic/43678/?o=0
Just got one in yesterday has this trouble. Usually I can touch up the pins on that chip without taking it apart. But this one is bad I gotta rip it apart.

 

[MrTurd Ferguson]

That's pretty interesting, thanks for sharing it. I've got a Gateway here that will run off the battery but won't charge it when I plug it in and it won't run off A/C power with the adapter.

Also about the Dell's... I got one in here that needed the jack replaced. So while removing the old one and putting the new one in, I messed up the solder trace for the data pin. There's an IC right next to that power jack and that is where that data pin trace goes to. If you're lucky and have a steady hand, you can jump that trace with a single strand of thin wire and remake that trace. Route it where it won't touch anything else and use hot glue to hold it in place and cover it up. I've had to do that twice from my stupid iron getting too hot even though the temp control was set to a lower setting.

I hate those latptops with those data pin connections on them.

 

[jombo]

I got a problem here now I am trying to work out. I have 2 1150's they will work just fine on battery power. But no dice on the AC brick. And they are good PS's now. The jacks are good all is working there. And since I intend to use these things on AC anyways I been trying to sort a way to use an AC adaptor on the battery port lol. I have tried a couple ideas both failed. I have several old dead batterys that I have the cases apart and was wanting just run the 14.5 volts in the battery pins. But man those batterys are hard to find a pinout of what does what.

You got any ideas on this? I sure can't figure out what is bad on the motherbrds to cause this. The PS is recognized and says it is charging but it doesn't. Me and my junk 1150's lol. I get so many of em cheap I can't refuse. And I hate to just trash a good laptop because I can't cobble it up ya know. To be sure it wasn't the jack i hardwired a dell pa-10 to the motherbrd.

And the one i made work past the center data pin i looked at it and seen how I did it. I put .3 volts on the data pin that made the thing think it was a true PS. It still ******* its not correct supply unless i turn off the adapter warnings in bios but it charges ok.

Would be so good to just make a battery pack powered by an adapter for these junks slide it in battery slot and move on. Just can't sort it out with all that junk on the circuit brd in the batterys. man thats a mess in there. you should take a dead 1 apart some time and look.

BTW the best way around that power jack is to just whack out the darn jack and solder the 3 wires to the brd and run em out the back and use a deans plug to connect the PS. Deans plugs are tuff small dudes if you haven't seen em we use em on high amperage 20 amp or more RC car batterys. I have started doing that with all my laptops those power jacks suck on em all. they make 4 pin deans plugs and they work great. They are smaller and handle less current than the 2 wire ones, but man they handle up to 5 amps quite well.

 

[MrTurd Ferguson]

I'd say the IC chip that is located next to the power jack is the problem. It's not switching the circuit to let it power off the supply, that's what I've run into on HP's and other Dell's lately. I don't see how you could get that chip off, let alone replace it cheaply. Of course, if you already own a hot-air rework station then you might be able to pull it off, I don't know. But I'm almost 100% sure that's why it's not working, got a pile of Gateways here that are doing the same thing and I'm just not going to spend the money on a station to repair these computers. They don't pay enough or come along enough to warrant paying that much money for the correct equipment...

I figured it was .3 cause that's what a properly working Dell reads on that pin but someone else said before that it couldn't be done because there was no actual data on the line. If you got it working like that, then you did something they said couldn't be done. Good job!

The problem I see, and this applies to me as well, is you don't have a perfectly good computer. You got an outdated machine and it's just time to replace them, that's what I tell the people whose machines I work on that are this old. For someone like you or I, then these are OK cause we can halfway keep them up and running. But someone who has to seek out a repairman everytime they turn around, they are just better off buying a new(er) working laptop.

 

[jombo]

Here is a working fix for the data line in the dells. Least it worked here for me I did an 1150 with this today. But of course this requires a working Dell PSU to start with. But I had a dead 1 that the chip was still alive in. So we need to start collecting dead Dell PSU's lol. His cure involves pulling the chip from a PSU and mounting it inside the laptop.

http://www.laptops-battery.co.uk/blog/dell-ac-power-adapter-type-cannot-be-determined-solution/

It worked well here once I sorted his clues out.

As for my quest on the using the bat slot as a PSU input I am still no closer there.

 

[jombo]

In my quest I found a schematic in pdf for the 1150. It is quite interesting. There is copy to download here. But you will have to register (sorry spammers made me do it) it is a forum (mine).
http://stumbles.gotdns.org/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?f=45&t=341