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Desperate for help troubleshooting a problem...

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abandon_

New Member
Joined
Dec 4, 2012
Hey all. This isn't an overclocking question exactly, but it may be related. I've been trying to solve this problem for months and would really appreciate any help anyone could give me. This problem is driving me crazy. Here are the symptoms:

I'm getting this INTERMITTENT problem, where let's say once out of every 8 times I try to turn on my system, upon pushing the power button my video card fan starts blowing at full speed (which it usually doesn't do) and I get 2 short beeps followed by 8 longer beeps. I have an AMI BIOS on an MSI mobo. After the beeps, the computer just sits there. No post, no screen, fan blowing full. Then I turn it off, and wait some time, and try again. I've noticed that if I try to turn it on again immediately, the same thing will happen. If I give it 5 minutes or so, it will probably work. Now, here's the reason I'm posting here. When my computer finally DOES boot up successfully after all of this garbage, my BIOS is displaying the message "Warning, previous attempt at overclocking has failed" And it asks me the Y/N question of whether or not to load BIOS defaults. Now, I have never overclocked in my life. I run the chip at its default voltage, and I run my RAM a little slow to make that work out due to the multiplier. And I had been doing that for years. So I don't know why it's giving me the overclocking message, but it started me thinking maybe it's a voltage problem? Could also explain the fan running so fast.

The beep codes indicate both a bad first 64k of memory and a bad video card. I've already RMA'd the video card twice, so it's definitely not that. I've also tried running just one of my two sticks of RAM at a time, using all four of the mem slots, and there's no difference.

So I'm thinking it's either A) my mobo is dead, or B) the power supply is bad. The thing is, I've never seen an intermittent problem like this. In the past when I've seen a psu die, it just died, and sometimes took something with it. Also, assuming the system does start, it rarely crashes or freezes. It's pretty solid when it works. And when it doesn't work, it's just dead. It's been going on for about 6 months now. I mentioned I RAM'd the video card twice. The first time was to see if that was the problem. But then whatever this problem is eventually wrecked that card: While playing a game, the screen bugged out with artifacts all over. So I rebooted and I still had screen artifacting, 3 colors and it only ran in low res. And that was it from then on. So I RMA'd again, and am obviously just risking the same thing happening again.

Unfortunately I can't afford to replace both my PSU as well as my mobo (which would require a new chip & new ram due to its ancientness) so I'd really love to figure out which thing it is.

Does anyone have experience with something like this? I'm really going crazy here. If someone could help with this, I'd really appreciate it. Thanks in advance.

Here are the relevant specs:

MSI P35 Neo-F LGA 775 Intel P35 ATX Intel Motherboard version MS-7360
Intel Core 2 Duo E7200 Wolfdale 2.53GHz LGA 775 65W Dual-Core Processor
AMI Bios
3GB 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 PC2 6400 (2gb + 1gb)
Antec TRUEPOWERII TPII-550 550W ATX12V
nVidia 450 GTS Video card

EDIT: Sorry for the double post, the website was acting up.
 
I'm getting this INTERMITTENT problem, where let's say once out of every 8 times I try to turn on my system, upon pushing the power button my video card fan starts blowing at full speed (which it usually doesn't do) and I get 2 short beeps followed by 8 longer beeps. I have an AMI BIOS on an MSI mobo. After the beeps, the computer just sits there. No post, no screen, fan blowing full. Then I turn it off, and wait some time, and try again. I've noticed that if I try to turn it on again immediately, the same thing will happen. If I give it 5 minutes or so, it will probably work. Now, here's the reason I'm posting here. When my computer finally DOES boot up successfully after all of this garbage, my BIOS is displaying the message "Warning, previous attempt at overclocking has failed" And it asks me the Y/N question of whether or not to load BIOS defaults. Now, I have never overclocked in my life. I run the chip at its default voltage, and I run my RAM a little slow to make that work out due to the multiplier. And I had been doing that for years. So I don't know why it's giving me the overclocking message, but it started me thinking maybe it's a voltage problem? Could also explain the fan running so fast.

The beep codes indicate both a bad first 64k of memory and a bad video card. I've already RMA'd the video card twice, so it's definitely not that. I've also tried running just one of my two sticks of RAM at a time, using all four of the mem slots, and there's no difference.

So I'm thinking it's either A) my mobo is dead, or B) the power supply is bad.
How can a mobo be dead but still give verbal and video error messages? :D

You might want to try a new CMOS battery. Somebody said a cheap source for them is "tea lights" sold by Family Dollar or Dollar General -- you get 3 of them for $1.
 
It is dead in that it no longer functions as a computer. That's pretty dead in my book. And I checked the CMOS battery, no luck there. Since the symptoms have gotten worse, I'm giving up and just rolling the dice in an assumption it's the cheap mobo as opposed to the good power supply, given they are the same age.
 
PSU is probably dead.
Antec used absolute crap capacitors in that one, I'm surprised it's still functioning.
New PSU time, ASAP.

Grab a Corsair CX430, cheap, good, plenty of power for that rig.
It'll probably fix your problems if the Fuhjyyu caps in the current unit haven't killed anything.
 
PSU is probably dead.
Antec used absolute crap capacitors in that one, I'm surprised it's still functioning.
New PSU time, ASAP.

Grab a Corsair CX430, cheap, good, plenty of power for that rig.
It'll probably fix your problems if the Fuhjyyu caps in the current unit haven't killed anything.

I had somebody bring one of these PSU's (The Antec) into my shop in his rig. He told me he was having some issues and believed it to be PSU-related, but said it was fine to power on..

The last thing I saw before the computer breathed its last breath was a 17v surge going through the 12v rail and a poof of smoke. :( Can at least attest that the TPII-550 wasn't a very good part. It sounds just as likely to be the PSU as the mobo, but this is a good bet--

OP: Do you have anybody who you can borrow a PSU from to test if it is the power supply or not?
 
PSU is probably dead.
Antec used absolute crap capacitors in that one, I'm surprised it's still functioning.
New PSU time, ASAP.

Grab a Corsair CX430, cheap, good, plenty of power for that rig.
It'll probably fix your problems if the Fuhjyyu caps in the current unit haven't killed anything.

I had somebody bring one of these PSU's (The Antec) into my shop in his rig. He told me he was having some issues and believed it to be PSU-related, but said it was fine to power on..

The last thing I saw before the computer breathed its last breath was a 17v surge going through the 12v rail and a poof of smoke. :( Can at least attest that the TPII-550 wasn't a very good part. It sounds just as likely to be the PSU as the mobo, but this is a good bet--

OP: Do you have anybody who you can borrow a PSU from to test if it is the power supply or not?

It's interesting to hear both of you make this comment about that PSU being bad when that's so contrary to everything I've read and experienced. Not saying you're wrong, I just found it interesting. It's got 5 eggs on newegg out of 485 reviews. Even some guy who just posted in September to report it lasted 7 years before he replaced it on his own.

It worked great for me for the 4-5 years I had it (until now if it is the PSU), and I know one other person who has it and has never had a problem.

I don't live near anyone I know with a spare PSU for testing right now, but I did borrow a voltmeter and the rails looked steady as a rock. I know it could still be surging, but it was fine for the 5-10 minutes I observed it.

Like I said, I'm still willing to believe it's the PSU, but I'm going with my gut that it's the mobo or the PCU. New parts arrive today and I'll definitely reply in a few days to report whether or not it works. Thanks for your posts everyone.
 
It's interesting to hear both of you make this comment about that PSU being bad when that's so contrary to everything I've read and experienced. Not saying you're wrong, I just found it interesting. It's got 5 eggs on newegg out of 485 reviews. Even some guy who just posted in September to report it lasted 7 years before he replaced it on his own.

It worked great for me for the 4-5 years I had it (until now if it is the PSU), and I know one other person who has it and has never had a problem.

I don't live near anyone I know with a spare PSU for testing right now, but I did borrow a voltmeter and the rails looked steady as a rock. I know it could still be surging, but it was fine for the 5-10 minutes I observed it.

Like I said, I'm still willing to believe it's the PSU, but I'm going with my gut that it's the mobo or the PCU. New parts arrive today and I'll definitely reply in a few days to report whether or not it works. Thanks for your posts everyone.

Bad caps, bob clarified that for me, thanks bob :D

I suggest grabbing a ol' 400w-ish control PSU from a surplus shop or something to test for PSU problems.. I have one laying around my shop that gets pampered and stashed back into its packaging daily-- It has one sole function, and that is to test claims of "Bad PSU" from customers. It is great that you ran tests with a multimeter, but it is possible that this wouldn't give you a tell-tale read using a multimeter, I believe the surge I got was a cap literally exploding haha

Godspeed :attn:
 
Final Update: I took your suggestions and got another PSU to test with. The system powers up, but has the same problem. No POST, same beeps, spinning fans and nothing else. So, at least that rules out the PSU being so bad that it doesn't work anymore.

What it doesn't rule out is the possibility that the mobo/PC is dead now BECAUSE the PSU killed it due to some surging problems I just haven't caught. I'm going to put my new machine together this weekend, but basically, I'll never know if the mobo/PC died, or the PSU killed them, because now I'm too scared to hook all my new stuff up to that same Antec power supply.

It sucks to not be able to figure out a problem, but after weeks of not having a working computer, I just need to get it running again. Thanks to everyone for their posts. If anyone else runs into this same problem in the future, sorry I couldn't get you more detailed info. I still suspect the motherboard because it always seemed cheap, but I'll never know. Thanks again. Take care.
 
Final Update: I took your suggestions and got another PSU to test with. The system powers up, but has the same problem. No POST, same beeps, spinning fans and nothing else. So, at least that rules out the PSU being so bad that it doesn't work anymore.

What it doesn't rule out is the possibility that the mobo/PC is dead now BECAUSE the PSU killed it due to some surging problems I just haven't caught. I'm going to put my new machine together this weekend, but basically, I'll never know if the mobo/PC died, or the PSU killed them, because now I'm too scared to hook all my new stuff up to that same Antec power supply.

It sucks to not be able to figure out a problem, but after weeks of not having a working computer, I just need to get it running again. Thanks to everyone for their posts. If anyone else runs into this same problem in the future, sorry I couldn't get you more detailed info. I still suspect the motherboard because it always seemed cheap, but I'll never know. Thanks again. Take care.

Sounds like the motherboard more than anything this point. -- I have a feeling you'd know if the PSU fried it haha. You may have a good CPU in there, I'd try to get it tested for possible resell :attn:
 
It is dead in that it no longer functions as a computer. That's pretty dead in my book.
Dead but comes back to life??? Maybe not dead but just sick and in need of a proper diagnosis. :D

Forget what I said about the CMOS battery because very few motherboards will fail to start if it's bad or even missing. I think your problem is in the PSU, namely its +5Vstandby circuit, which controls the rest of the PSU, including turning it on and off, and the last several times I checked a computer equipped with an Antec TruePower or SmartPower that wouldn't turn on, I was able to restore operation to those computers by replacing 1-2 capacitors in that +5Vstandby circuit. Those capacitors are located between the 2 big heatsinks and are probably Fuhjyyu, Koshin, Teapo, or AsiaX brand, rated 10 volts and either 1000uF or 2200uF. However every AsiaX looked and tested OK. It's important to replace bad caps in this circuit because they can also cause the +5Vstandby line to put out excessive voltage that can damage the motherboard. Also these caps are located right next to the high voltage section, so cover them with heatshrink tubing or several layers of clear package tape ("poly" tape). However just because this problem is fixed doesn't make the PSU OK because there's still the matter of all the rotting capacitors on the outputs -- Google "Fuhjyyu syndrome".

I can't rule out a motherboard problem because it seems the MSI P35 Neo-F is made with loads of conventional capacitors, and I can't tell what brand they are. My MSI MS-7309, a lower end motherboard, is full of them, but fortunately almost all are high quality Panasonics, including all those in the high stress circuits. Panasonics have a funny "T" stamped into their tops and the plastic heatshrink may have an "M" inside a square ("M" for Matsu****a, the family behind Panasonic). What brands and models of capacitors is on your motherboard, especially next to the CPU, DIMM sockets, and PCI-E 16x slot? I hope none are marked "KZG" or "KZJ" because those are some of the few Japanese caps known to fail at high rates.

This weekend, Newegg has a Corsair CX600 for $38, after $20 rebate, if you use code EMCJHJC94. I think it or a CV600 has been offered for under $30, after rebate, by NewEgg or TigerDirect in the past few months.
 
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