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Do i need TWO D5 pumps?

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LawShadow

Member
Joined
Jan 10, 2009
Hi all,

So finally after much research, this will be my next upgrade:

1 x Heatkiller IV basic acetal
1 x Heatkiller GPU block for gtx 1070 or 1080
1 x Aquacomputer AMS 480 rad
1x Aquacomputer Radical 4 - 480 rad
3 pairs of Koolance QD4's
Tygon R6016 Norprene tubing
Coolant = Innovatek Protect

I have one D5 with EK top + res. Loop plan: Pump(s) -- cpu -- gpu -- 480 rad --- 480 rad --- pump(s) is this the correct loop or should i change the loop order?

Judging from reviews the AMS rad is rather restrictive the Radical rad is low/medium restriction.
The heatkiller IV basic Acetal is one of the least restrictive blocks out there.

So would one D5 pump handle this loop with good flow atleast 1gpm? Or should i get my self another D5 pump and combine them with EK top for 2 D5's in serial for more head pressure?

I went with the Aquacomputer rads because they are clean inside no flux that may end up in my blocks as a side note i think two 480 rads should be good for a cpu and gpu loop while getting good temps as well as silence. And Norprene tubing for no plasticizer issues or leeching just want a clean system.

Some reviews compared the AMS rad with the radical rad and the AMS won the radical 2 was much thiner then the AMS the Radical have in my list is the radical 4 which is even thicker then a monsta rad.

Anyway your feedback regarding one or 2 D5 pump(s) is much appreciated
 

EarthDog

Gulper Nozzle Co-Owner
Joined
Dec 15, 2008
Location
Buckeyes!
Nope... that single pump is fine.

...and you don't need two 480 rads for that setup either. One is plenty to cool CPU and GPU even with overclocking both.

As far as loop order, it really doesn't matter in a loop with adequate flow and radiator area. Temperatures inside such a loop do not vary by more than 1-2C. Just make sure the res is before the pump and it doesn't matter after. :)
 
OP
LawShadow

LawShadow

Member
Joined
Jan 10, 2009
Nope... that single pump is fine.

...and you don't need two 480 rads for that setup either. One is plenty to cool CPU and GPU even with overclocking both.

As far as loop order, it really doesn't matter in a loop with adequate flow and radiator area. Temperatures inside such a loop do not vary by more than 1-2C. Just make sure the res is before the pump and it doesn't matter after. :)

Hi thanks for the reply,

The doubt came from the flow restriction with these AMS rads they are not the usual low restriction flat tube rads see review:

http://www.xtremerigs.net/2015/05/15/aqua-computer-ams-copper-360mm-radiator-review/3/

In those flow charts we are dealing with a pretty restrictive rad. The reason why i went with 2 480 rads is to compensate for the performance of these rads which are mediocore albeit they do good on low rpm fans about 700rpm.
I have used on my current loop a Alphacool 360 Monsta rad and temps were a bit high cpu i7 920 idle = 42c/44c and a water cooled gtx 570 sc. while my second system uses a AMD FX 9590 (220 watt TDP) sits at 31c idle with a XSPC RX 480 rad which also cools the north and south bridge so 3 waterblocks and still good temps even though that cpu is a hothead.
Plus a single pump needs to go to a cpu then gpu and then one restrictive rad then another rad.. I never used a D5 before was used to a Aquastream XT pump but if a single D5 is enough for this loop a D5 i already have then i wont have to invest in yet another D5 and a top for dual D5's which i could invest in hardware.

Just doing research for my next build i7 6800k and a gtx 1070/1080.
 
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EarthDog

Gulper Nozzle Co-Owner
Joined
Dec 15, 2008
Location
Buckeyes!
You will be cooling a lot less wattage with the 6800K (140W stock) and 1080 (180W) than with your AMD system. THey are seemingly restrictive rads and if you insist on using two, perhaps two pumps are needed. Personally, I would run with one rad and one pump.
 

GTXJackBauer

Water Cooling Senior Member, #TEAMH20HNO
Joined
May 22, 2011
Location
USA
You will be cooling a lot less wattage with the 6800K (140W stock) and 1080 (180W) than with your AMD system. THey are seemingly restrictive rads and if you insist on using two, perhaps two pumps are needed. Personally, I would run with one rad and one pump.

I concur as well.

Today's hardware is very power and heat efficient from the past. Especially that old i7 and toasty and screamy Fermi.

OP, you're over shooting with two unnecessary rads. It's really isn't needed and go with the low FPI rad that can run low RPM fans for quiet operations if noise may become an issue as well as being in a single pump configuration. Just have the CPU before the GPU in your loop order. Will save you a few degrees.

Also, have a look at PrimoChill Advanced LRT for tubing with the choice of color.
 
OP
LawShadow

LawShadow

Member
Joined
Jan 10, 2009
You will be cooling a lot less wattage with the 6800K (140W stock) and 1080 (180W) than with your AMD system. THey are seemingly restrictive rads and if you insist on using two, perhaps two pumps are needed. Personally, I would run with one rad and one pump.

Thx for the reply,

My current system using i7 920 and gtx 570sc are cooled with a Alphacool 360 Monsta getting 41c to 43c idle for cpu. Which imo is a bit on the high side.
Need a silent system running on 700rpm fans. Maybe i am being to cautious. And i should look at one 480 rad with one pump. If however i opt for two of those restrictive rads then i may use 2 pumps. Its just my current system temps arent that good or it means my blocks blocked by crap out of the alphacool rad ( did a good flush many times with hot water). Another reason for me to with AMS or Radical rads since they are flux less rads. I do think a D5 pump can handle a single rad with 2 blocks EASILY.

I concur as well.

Today's hardware is very power and heat efficient from the past. Especially that old i7 and toasty and screamy Fermi.

OP, you're over shooting with two unnecessary rads. It's really isn't needed and go with the low FPI rad that can run low RPM fans for quiet operations if noise may become an issue as well as being in a single pump configuration. Just have the CPU before the GPU in your loop order. Will save you a few degrees.

Also, have a look at PrimoChill Advanced LRT for tubing with the choice of color.

Thx for the reply,

Maybe i am going overboard:D its odd my secondary system does very well with a FX 9590 and also cooling the N-bridge and S-bridge with a XSPC RX 480 rad getting 31c idle comparing that with my game machine 43c. Been using Primochill Avanced LRT for a while now, just want a new look with Norprene tubing (thick walled).
 
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EarthDog

Gulper Nozzle Co-Owner
Joined
Dec 15, 2008
Location
Buckeyes!
A single 360 rad cooling 340W (at stock) is not going to have a great deltaT. A 480 sized rad cooling 320W stock will perform better.

You cannot compare two completely unlike systems...!!!!


Edit: merged your double post... you can edit to add if you need. :)
 

GTXJackBauer

Water Cooling Senior Member, #TEAMH20HNO
Joined
May 22, 2011
Location
USA
Thx for the reply,

My current system using i7 920 and gtx 570sc are cooled with a Alphacool 360 Monsta getting 41c to 43c idle for cpu. Which imo is a bit on the high side.
Need a silent system running on 700rpm fans. Maybe i am being to cautious. And i should look at one 480 rad with one pump. If however i opt for two of those restrictive rads then i may use 2 pumps. Its just my current system temps arent that good or it means my blocks blocked by crap out of the alphacool rad ( did a good flush many times with hot water). Another reason for me to with AMS or Radical rads since they are flux less rads. I do think a D5 pump can handle a single rad with 2 blocks EASILY.



Thx for the reply,

Maybe i am going overboard:D its odd my secondary system does very well with a FX 9590 and also cooling the N-bridge and S-bridge with a XSPC RX 480 rad getting 31c idle comparing that with my game machine 43c. Been using Primochill Avanced LRT for a while now, just want a new look with Norprene tubing (thick walled).

As you post about your temps, its pretty self explanatory. Go with a 480mm with a single D5 and some premium rad fans (GTs). As ED said, a 480 will cool better then a 360 because there's more heat surface to dissipate from. A 480 should allow you to run the fans at a quieter setting as well.
 

EK Luc

Registered
Joined
Nov 5, 2014
Hi all,

So finally after much research, this will be my next upgrade:

1 x Heatkiller IV basic acetal
1 x Heatkiller GPU block for gtx 1070 or 1080
1 x Aquacomputer AMS 480 rad
1x Aquacomputer Radical 4 - 480 rad
3 pairs of Koolance QD4's
Tygon R6016 Norprene tubing
Coolant = Innovatek Protect

I have one D5 with EK top + res. Loop plan: Pump(s) -- cpu -- gpu -- 480 rad --- 480 rad --- pump(s) is this the correct loop or should i change the loop order?

Judging from reviews the AMS rad is rather restrictive the Radical rad is low/medium restriction.
The heatkiller IV basic Acetal is one of the least restrictive blocks out there.

So would one D5 pump handle this loop with good flow atleast 1gpm? Or should i get my self another D5 pump and combine them with EK top for 2 D5's in serial for more head pressure?

I went with the Aquacomputer rads because they are clean inside no flux that may end up in my blocks as a side note i think two 480 rads should be good for a cpu and gpu loop while getting good temps as well as silence. And Norprene tubing for no plasticizer issues or leeching just want a clean system.

Some reviews compared the AMS rad with the radical rad and the AMS won the radical 2 was much thiner then the AMS the Radical have in my list is the radical 4 which is even thicker then a monsta rad.

Anyway your feedback regarding one or 2 D5 pump(s) is much appreciated

The guys above already gave you some very nice comments about the 1 D5 vs 2 D5 thing so I don't need to say anything about it here except that I agree with them.

One thing I want to advise you is about your Koolance QD4. Only buy the silver ones not the black ones. The black ones will fail on you in a matter of months.
 
OP
LawShadow

LawShadow

Member
Joined
Jan 10, 2009
The guys above already gave you some very nice comments about the 1 D5 vs 2 D5 thing so I don't need to say anything about it here except that I agree with them.

One thing I want to advise you is about your Koolance QD4. Only buy the silver ones not the black ones. The black ones will fail on you in a matter of months.

Hello thanks for the reply,

Il ditch the dual rad set up and only use one radiator in this case a Aquacomputer AMS 840 rad 6 x 140mm rad now i wont have to deal with a second rad.
Yeah the black QD4's........i had them...never used it yet after a couple of weeks when i wanted to use them the inside was covered in white stuff oxidation...wasted 2 pairs and money.

Although Koolance made a silent upgrade to their QD series they released new black ones which you can distinguish by the gold lettering and painted black (instead of chrome plated) and new hexagonal nut. The inside are not chrome black plated as with the old black ones they simply did not painted it but left it bare nickel. There is a review regarding the new QD's both the silver and black ones that have been recently released:

http://thermalbench.com/2016/05/22/koolance-quick-disconnect-fittings/4/
 

cdawall

Member
Joined
Feb 4, 2009
Location
cypress, tx
I have yet to run into a setup that needs two D5's. Even with my current setup I don't need more than the single D4 I run.

0405161926.jpg


2x Aquacomputer Cuplex Kryos
2x HWLabs BIGT's (super high restriction...)
1x swiftech MCR420
1x PTS Delrin bay res (also bad for restriction)

Even with that setup the D4 still pushes more than enough waterflow.
 
OP
LawShadow

LawShadow

Member
Joined
Jan 10, 2009
I have yet to run into a setup that needs two D5's. Even with my current setup I don't need more than the single D4 I run.

0405161926.jpg


2x Aquacomputer Cuplex Kryos
2x HWLabs BIGT's (super high restriction...)
1x swiftech MCR420
1x PTS Delrin bay res (also bad for restriction)

Even with that setup the D4 still pushes more than enough waterflow.

Thank you for the reply,

Now i have something to compare as a side note i dropped the idea of using two rads from aquacomputer instead il only use a singe Aquacomputer AMS 840 rad which is a large rad but just one. So looking at your specs i think im fine with one D5 pump for just a cpu, gpu and rad. Thx again.
 

cdawall

Member
Joined
Feb 4, 2009
Location
cypress, tx
Thank you for the reply,

Now i have something to compare as a side note i dropped the idea of using two rads from aquacomputer instead il only use a singe Aquacomputer AMS 840 rad which is a large rad but just one. So looking at your specs i think im fine with one D5 pump for just a cpu, gpu and rad. Thx again.


I have had a couple of rigs back in the day with a D4/D5 combo loop and even running an MCR420, MCR320 and MCR220 with three DD-GTX470 blocks and a single DTek Fuzion v1 I had a ridiculous amount of flow.
 
OP
LawShadow

LawShadow

Member
Joined
Jan 10, 2009
Lol that radiator... where are you going to put it?

Again, a 4x120mm is plenty. ;)

Hehe yeah it's large alright:D Not gonna make the same mistake by only using a 360 rad for cpu and gpu. The rad will be externally placed behind the case. Running it with 600 to 700 rpm for silence and still have plenty heat dissipation and head room for overclocking. That rad is perhaps overkill now but I may leave the option open for sli...
 
OP
LawShadow

LawShadow

Member
Joined
Jan 10, 2009
I have had a couple of rigs back in the day with a D4/D5 combo loop and even running an MCR420, MCR320 and MCR220 with three DD-GTX470 blocks and a single DTek Fuzion v1 I had a ridiculous amount of flow.

Good to hear man! Yeah those are some pretty restrictive water gear your using. But then again you had good flow and that's what matters in the end. It's a good thing I came here. As people said a 480 is enough went with a behemoth 840 for silence and future upgrades.
 

Silver Surfer

Member
Joined
May 8, 2011
Location
Darlington, South Carolina
...and you don't need two 480 rads for that setup either. One is plenty to cool CPU and GPU even with overclocking both.

That really depends on just how far he intends or expects to overclock either the CPU or GPU or both, as to whether one 480 radiator would be enough for his goals so it is not a one size fits all situations answer, and I'm kinda surprised you said it.

So I absolutely disagree with the statement I quoted from you.

From my own experience I've seen CPU overclocks limited by just running it all in a single loop, though many claim it doesn't matter, a single 480 radiator can only dissipate so much, and all 480 radiators are not equal anyway, their cooling performance is also relative to the radiators FPI design and core thickness.

What say you?
 

ATMINSIDE

Sim Racing Aficionado Co-Owner
Joined
Jun 28, 2012
That really depends on just how far he intends or expects to overclock either the CPU or GPU or both, as to whether one 480 radiator would be enough for his goals so it is not a one size fits all situations answer, and I'm kinda surprised you said it.

So I absolutely disagree with the statement I quoted from you.

From my own experience I've seen CPU overclocks limited by just running it all in a single loop, though many claim it doesn't matter, a single 480 radiator can only dissipate so much, and all 480 radiators are not equal anyway, their cooling performance is also relative to the radiators FPI design and core thickness.

What say you?

I say EarthDog was speaking specifically to the 480 rads included in the initial post, both of which are thick and higher fpi 480 rads.
His assessment was spot on, a single 480 of the caliber listed in the OP is more than enough for a 6800K and 1070 or 1080.
 

Silver Surfer

Member
Joined
May 8, 2011
Location
Darlington, South Carolina
I say EarthDog was speaking specifically to the 480 rads included in the initial post, both of which are thick and higher fpi 480 rads.
His assessment was spot on, a single 480 of the caliber listed in the OP is more than enough for a 6800K and 1070 or 1080.

I agree with you, as the OP does not mention overclocking at all in the opening post, however, EarthDog brought the overclocking comment into the thread, thus the reason for my comment.

EarthDog said:
One is plenty to cool CPU and GPU even with overclocking both.

And I am saying it depends on how far of an overclock is intended as to whether one of the 480s is enough.

I thought that was very clear.

Hi all,

So finally after much research, this will be my next upgrade:

1 x Heatkiller IV basic acetal
1 x Heatkiller GPU block for gtx 1070 or 1080
1 x Aquacomputer AMS 480 rad
1x Aquacomputer Radical 4 - 480 rad
3 pairs of Koolance QD4's
Tygon R6016 Norprene tubing
Coolant = Innovatek Protect

I have one D5 with EK top + res. Loop plan: Pump(s) -- cpu -- gpu -- 480 rad --- 480 rad --- pump(s) is this the correct loop or should i change the loop order?

Judging from reviews the AMS rad is rather restrictive the Radical rad is low/medium restriction.
The heatkiller IV basic Acetal is one of the least restrictive blocks out there.

So would one D5 pump handle this loop with good flow atleast 1gpm? Or should i get my self another D5 pump and combine them with EK top for 2 D5's in serial for more head pressure?

I went with the Aquacomputer rads because they are clean inside no flux that may end up in my blocks as a side note i think two 480 rads should be good for a cpu and gpu loop while getting good temps as well as silence. And Norprene tubing for no plasticizer issues or leeching just want a clean system.

Some reviews compared the AMS rad with the radical rad and the AMS won the radical 2 was much thiner then the AMS the Radical have in my list is the radical 4 which is even thicker then a monsta rad.

Anyway your feedback regarding one or 2 D5 pump(s) is much appreciated

The heatkiller IV basic Acetal is one of the least restrictive blocks out there.

That may be true but that does not mean it is one of the best cooling performers out there look at the EK Supremacy EVO acetal/copper, in my own testing it actually beat the XSPC Raystorm by 5c, under the exact same testing parameters.

One D5 pump would be sufficient even if you went with both rads together the flow restriction you are concerned about is actually irrelevant to the D5s capability as both rads are round tubing rads.

However the thing you think is a good quality of no flux from soldering IMO is not, that's why we all flush out our rads before putting them into service to flush out any debri from the manufacturing process.

To construct a radiator solder free requires each tube end to be rubber O-ring sealed which means each tube end has to extend into the end cap a certain amount, which produces turbulence in the end cap. and turbulence adds to flow restriction in that scenario.

Soldered tube ends are smoother fitted to the mating surface that joins the end cap, so in my personal opinion I would rather have a soldered rad, as for longevity there is a possibility of rubber O-ring failure, we see rubber O-rings fail all the time.

But that's your choice.

the Radical have in my list is the radical 4 which is even thicker then a monsta rad.

The Radical 4 is 75mm thick frame meaning the actual core is about 65mm allowing for the screw clearance on each side of the rad, the Monsta 480 is an 86mm thick frame, which has approximately a 76mm core thickness, so the Radical 4 is not thicker than a Monsta 480, or for that matter any of the Monsta rads.
 
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