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Do people actually know what neoprene is??

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cwb27

Member
Joined
Sep 22, 2002
Location
Ontario, Canada
I don't have any examples off hand (which is not the best thing when it comes to back up my point...) But I'm sure some of you will have seen this before.

I've noticed after reading various personal cooling writes ups that people are refering to closed cell foam as neoprene. The 2 are VERY different, for obvious reasons... Close cell foam for the most part is water proof and somewhat gas permeable (i.e a good insulator), where was neoprene is a one way material what will let moisture in, but not out. (i.e Obviously, used in wetsuits)

Curious if anyone else has noted this in their travels.
 
OP
cwb27

cwb27

Member
Joined
Sep 22, 2002
Location
Ontario, Canada
Agreed, it is a hybrid product, I don't know it's exact composition though.

But what I'm talking about is the closed cell foam that is slightly reflective, with noticible bubbles in it.
 

Paxmax

Member
Joined
May 8, 2002
Neoprene is waterthight and air tight. The only thing getting wet while diving is the nylon fabric on the inside/outside . The function of that is to make it more ridgid and rip proof. Neoprene itself is a very stretchy and delicate material and without support material it wouldn't make it long. There are both wetsuits and dry suits made from neoprene. In the drysuit care has been taken to seal all seams and you add rubber grommets where arms, legs and head stick out to seal it. You also throw in a watertight zipper(the most expensive part!! cost like 200$ to replace).
The wesuit leaks only because the seams aren't glued no waterproof zipper and no tight fitting grommets around the holes for portuding body parts.
I honestly don't know if it is rubber or if it is a plastic base in it, but it is usually foamed using nitogen. Judging from it's smell I'd say rubber :)

:confused: someone said: Gas permeable = good insulator :confused:

I just can't dance to that. The point of being a good insulator is to be made from total vaccum. If thats not possible, then made from some very light gas that won't lead heat good at all and preferably held at a low low pressure. Ok, but the low pressured gas won't stay were you put it, so you enclose it into something. Ok, now you've got an insulator for heat. Opsie, the enclosement seems to be gas permeable (ie gas can pass to some extent), the darn air gets in and mixes with your precious insulating gas, and dilutes it. Your insulator is now a bit worse off. Then the air keeps changing aswell, cold air out and new warm air in... your insulator is now crap, cause it is gas permeable.

/The scuba diving Paxmax
 
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RedDeathDrinker

Senior Aircraftsman IRL
Joined
Jul 16, 2001
Location
Scotland - And don't you forget it!
Namagomi said:
. After a dive, the inside of my suit is always wet. :p

Because a small amount of water is allowed to leak in throught the seams so it sits between the wetsuit and the skin. This layer of water warms up with body heat, and is insulated from the colder seawater by the neoprene wetsuit.....personally, I use a drysuit:)
 

Diggrr

Underwater Senior Member
Joined
Nov 29, 2001
Maybe you guys have some different examples of neoprene, but my mouspads (the most common example of neoprene mentioned in articles) is neither air-tight, nor water-tight.
It's just a small celled black sponge with a fabric backing.

I haven't surfed, or even lived near the coast in years, so I couldn't tell you if my suit was air-tight or water-tight.

Try this. Wash your mousepad in some water and dishsoap (probably needs it anyway, mine does). Lay it down on a white (or other light color) towel. Step/stand on it.
When you remove the mousepad, you'll see a perfect imprint of the mousepad in water left behind from both the back and the front. It's just sponge, but the cells being so small, it doesn't wring out as easily as one in the kitchen.

You can also try blowing air through the backside of the mousepad, but wait until you're alone...you don't want your family to think you're spending way too much time with your computer.:D
If you blow hot breath through it, you won't fell a breeze coming out the other side, but you will feel the heat of your breath. It's not even an insulator.

Point is, I waited a year to buy this computer, and I'm NOT using neoprene to help me destroy it. I can do that all by myself.:beer:
 
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Ugmore Baggage

Member
Joined
Feb 12, 2002
I'd bet that neoprene can be manufactured either open or closed style, depending on the need.

Some hiking boots have neoprene soles, reading this thread I keep imagining Ronnie (the rest of us had vibram) sloshing through puddles, then climbing climbing a rock with water spurting from his feet! Of course this never really happened but it's an amusing image.

I've never heard of a "one-way" sponge though.
 

rustymaitland

Member
Joined
Mar 12, 2002
Location
Toronto, ON
i have an 87 buick grand national. general motors in their divine wisdom when manufacturing these case made the rear main oil seal out of rope. the aftermarket replacement for this seal is neoprene. it is molded like a hard plastic and is in the shape of a circle.
 

Tmod

Member
Joined
Jul 18, 2001
Neoprene polychloroprene is an extremely versatile synthetic rubber with 70 years of proven performance in a broad industry spectrum. It was originally developed as an oil-resistant substitute for natural rubber. Neoprene is noted for a unique combination of properties, which has led to its use in thousands of applications in diverse environments.

A Balanced Combination of Properties

Resists degradation from sun, ozone and weather
Performs well in contact with oils and many chemicals
Remains useful over a wide temperature range
Displays outstanding physical toughness
Resists burning inherently better than exclusively hydrocarbon rubbers
Outstanding resistance to damage caused by flexing and twisting
The basic chemical composition of Neoprene synthetic rubber is polychloroprene. The polymer structure can be modified by copolymerizing chloroprene with sulfur and/or 2,3 dichloro 1,3-butadiene to yield a family of materials with a broad range of chemical and physical properties. By proper selection and formulation of these polymers, the compounder can achieve optimum performance for a given end-use. Neoprene is available as a solid and as a liquid dispersion.
 

Paxmax

Member
Joined
May 8, 2002
Tmod said:
The polymer structure can be modified by copolymerizing chloroprene with sulfur and/or 2,3 dichloro 1,3-butadiene to yield a family of materials with a broad range of chemical and physical properties.

LOL! :D I guess this is the end of this thread....
 

Namagomi

Disabled
Joined
Mar 20, 2001
Location
Dallas, Texas and Tulsa, Oklahoma
reddeathdrinker said:


Because a small amount of water is allowed to leak in throught the seams so it sits between the wetsuit and the skin. This layer of water warms up with body heat, and is insulated from the colder seawater by the neoprene wetsuit.....personally, I use a drysuit:)

lordy! is the drysuit for RAF, or what? I don't think i'd dive in any water that was cold enough to require a wetsuit :eek:

Ugmore Baggage said:
Some hiking boots have neoprene soles, reading this thread I keep imagining Ronnie (the rest of us had vibram)
mmmmm....vibram soles....:D
 

Daemonfly

Member
Joined
Aug 18, 2002
Location
NW Pa
Neoprene can be found in various "forms"

I've seen it range from neoprene foam to very dense neoprene that is more solid :)

The denser version makes quite the good gasket ;)
 

Paxmax

Member
Joined
May 8, 2002
Namagomi said:

lordy! is the drysuit for RAF, or what? I don't think i'd dive in any water that was cold enough to require a wetsuit :eek:
mmmmm....vibram soles....:D

Welcome to a nice sunny Sweden in the northern Europe in the summer!
Come and dive into the Baltic sea!
Sure we have 20 C water at the surface, sunny weather 25 airtemp, but down at the bottom 20 meters below surface you'll find water at a nice 4 C... just above freezing.. Mmmhuh.... you don't wanna be there without a drysuit.