Dolk's Guide to the Phenom II

[Dolk]

[Divine Music=On]

Ok let me see if I can't help you out. I see that you are using the 940BE with the AM3 system, something I haven't seen just yet but shouldn't be to different as far as I know. You may need to increase the voltage up to 1.55v but that shouldn't be it. Most likely it could be the HTT causing crashes as it is not tested as much with Benchmarks. Have you stress tested your settings? If you have and it is passing try upping the HTT to 2.2 GHz but lower the CPU-NB to 2.4GHz and but then push the CPU-NB to 1.35vs and keep the CPUv at 1.53 volts.

The 940BE is a very intersting CPU in that each one is completely different then the next. My results may work for some but it will not work for all. There is a lot of trying and experimenting with the chip.

If things don't work come on back and I'll try and figure this one out.

 

[ChanceCoats123]

DOLK!!! 940 in an am3?!?! How could you mix those up . lol

 

[WildWillie]

Dolk, I have the ASUS M4A79 Deluxe which is an AM2+ motherboard. It is the most evolved of the ASUS AM2+ series.

I have not performed a thorough stress test of the system at 3.8Ghz. I do need to. I have also not tried adjusting the HT mutiplier. As per your recommendations, I will try increasing it to 2.2 Ghz, as well as lowering the CPU-NB to 2400 Mhz and rasing the CPU-NB voltage to 1.35V.

I will try these new settings and then perform some stress testing. Any in particular that you recommend? I have used Orthos, Prime95, Super Pi, and OCCT before.

 

[Dolk]

Prime 95 is the best.

 

[ChanceCoats123]

P95 FTW!!! Has never done me wrong.

 

[nzaneb]

Dolk, I have the ASUS M4A79-T which is an AM2+ motherboard. It is the most evolved of the ASUS AM2+ series.

Just so you don't get confused, should you ever go ASUS and try a BIOS update. There is the M4A79 Deluxe which is an AM2+ board that uses DDR2 and supports AM3 CPU's and there is the M4A79-T Deluxe which is solely an AM3 board using DDR3.

I'd hate for you to flash the wrong BIOS, I'm thinking you have the straight M4A79 Deluxe...just like me

 

[WildWillie]

Still no 3.8 Ghz

I tried Dolks recommendations:

First try:CPU multiplier to 19X, CPU volts to 1.53V, CPU-NB to 2.6 Ghz, CPU-NB volts to 1.35V. Then ran Prime 95. No errors until a mysterious reboot at about the 1 hour point.

Second try:CPU multiplier to 19X, CPU volts to 1.53V, HTT to 2.2 Ghz, CPU-NB to 2.4 Ghz, CPU-NB volts to 1.35V. System would not even boot up (not even to BIOS). Had to clear Bios and then recover.

Now I am back to: CPU multiplier to 18X, CPU volts at stock (1.35V), CPU-NB at stock (1.8Ghz), CPU-NB volts at stock, HTT at stock (1.8Ghz). Runs fine, no problems.

CPU temperatures crept above 40 degrees C during the run at 3.8 Ghz but stayed in the low 40's. Temperatures do not appear to be the problem. Do I need to try more CPU Volts? Any ideas to get a stable 3.8Ghz? I would think that if this CPU runs fine at 3.6Ghz at the stock voltage, then it should have plenty of headroom for overclocking further. I think that next I will try to see if it will run at 3.7Ghz. Maybe 3.8Ghz is too large of a jump.

 

[jonwall]

been away from here for awhile and havent been messing with my oc at all in that time, but im getting a free tube of IC7 tim, it uses diamond in it lol so it SHOULD work fairly well, better than the stuff that came with my vendetta 2 anyways. Ill get back into some heavy ocing once it arrives

 

[Dolk]

Hmm I'm loving this challenge, haven't had one for awhile so bare with me on this

Go back to your first setup, and do a small FFT stress test. This will stay inside the CPU only. If it fails then most likely it is caused by the CPU-NB. So come back once try this test.

 

[WildWillie]

Dolk, thanks for the input

I will try the first configuration and run Prime 95 with the small FFT stress test. I will report results later. I am at work now. I am glad that you enjoy a challenge. I enjoy the help. Do you think that it will still take about 1 hour to come up with an error? I am trying to increase my folding@home score. I don't mind taking a break from folding to diagnose problems though. It sure is great to be able to fold using all four cores (at 3.6 Ghz) and my GPU.

Dolk, in your overclocking guide, you had mentioned that it works best if you scale the NB speed with the CPU speed (NB to >2.4Ghz with CPU at 3.8Ghz). What happens if you don't? I also read that the HTT multiplier should always result in a HTT speed that is less than the NB speed. Should they both theoretically be able to run as fast as the CPU speed? What happens if HTT speed is greater than NB speed? Do you see any reasoon why my computer would not boot into BIOS with a HTT speed of 2.2Ghz (and NB at 2.4Ghz)?

 

[Dolk]

The idea behind the scaling is what could be the MIN CPU-NB frequency speed of that OC. As proven by many, it is not the case. Although I have proven that at 4.0ghz you need at least 2.6ghz in order to boot. I have done a lot of research on this and I am now re-collecting my results and thoughts to put it into this guide. I guess this is what happens when you try to take chaos and make it linear.

The HTT can never go higher then the CPU-NB because technically the CPU-NB controls the HTT. If you were to look at a block diagram of the Phenom II you would see that the HTT lies right under the CPU-NB when everything is working, that is because the CPU-NB controls it along with the L3 Cache. To simply put You have 4 cores and each is connected by the FSB, and you have this "5th" core that is also on the FSB and controls the flow in and out. This "5th" core is called the CPU-NB. When the CPU is done calculating and doing its job, tasks are that have been stored go from the cores to the NB to the XBar then to either the Memory controller or the HTT. Now the HTT also runs on the FSB. Now since you have this order Cores -> NB -> Memory or HTT The lower parts can never exceed the speeds of the higher parts due to instability, and also the amount of voltage, and how it is designed.

For the purpose of learning lets take a good example of what would happen if you increased the HTT above that of the NB. The HTT is linked to the chipset which is connected to your SATA HDDs. Now say you want to move a file from one HDD to another, well the process of this would require the data to flow through the CPU. So here is how it would travel SATA controller -> Chipset -> HTT -> CPU and then back on out, and it may take a break in the memory area but that is ok. So let us say you have a HTT of 2.2ghz and the CPU-NB is at 1.8ghz. Here comes the data... BOOP you can't even boot up. The NB can not handle the fast data pooring in from the HTT and so thus results in data loss.

As for why the no Boot up with the changed HTT, it probably has to do with the incorrect settings I gave. I was digging through my stuff and I found my old settings I used for 3.8ghz. In stead you should try this:
NB = x12 HTT = x9 CPUv = 1.5v DDRv = 2.1 Memory @ 1066MHz with settings that work with your memory. I kept everything else on Auto. Also make sure to change your DCT to Both.

Hope that helps

 

[WildWillie]

Thanks Dolk

You mentioned that my boot problem might be with the incorrect settings that you gave. However, your new settings aren't all that different:

Old settings (3.8Ghz):
CPU Volts=1.53V
CPU-NB=2.6Ghz
CPU-NBv=1.35
HTT=1.8Ghz

Newer settings (3.8Ghz):
CPU Volts=1.53V
CPU-NB=2.4Ghz
CPU-NBv=1.35
HTT=2.2Ghz

Newest settings (3.8Ghz):
CPU Volts=1.50V
CPU-NB=2.4Ghz
CPU-NBv=Auto
HTT=1.8Ghz

I don't know what a DCT is. Please explain.

 

[Dolk]

It depends on your BIOS I guess, when in your RAM settings area, I have an option to change my RAM timings in modes: DCT0 DCT1 or Both. Not sure exactly what it does, but I have been told it I should keep it on Both.

I know that the newest settings are not that different but trust me when I say, these CPUs can be picky.

 

[QuietIce]

IIRC the DCT thing in BIOS is a matter of which RAM timings you're setting - DCT0 for bank A, DCT1 bank B (I think? - been awhile since the research). Since it's sheer folly for anyone not very, very experienced in RAM timings to have different settings for the sticks it's definitely a good idea to leave it at "Both" ...

 

[Malakai]

Got a 940 BE and Gigabyte *-UD4H on the way, will report results and tweakage when the time comes!

<-- excited!

 

[ChanceCoats123]

I'm excited for the 8xx chipset and the 955's they are sounding about as good as naughty things to me. Naughtly things being, eating cake frosting out of the container, or staying up 5 mins past your bed time. Hehe. They do sound good to me though. Hoping for a low TPD quad that isn't in the 800 series.

 

[WildWillie]

Dolk, any more advice?

I tried running at 3.8 ghz (19X CPU multiplier) with the following settings: CPU volts = 1.50V, CPU-NB at 2.4 Ghz, CPU-NB Volts at auto, HTT speed at auto. System would not boot. Raised CPU volts to 1.55V (seems kinda high), now it boots into Windows but restarts soon after. I did set DCT to Both.

The NB chart on your previous page has 1.25V listed for a NB speed of 2.4Ghz. I think that the stock voltage is only 1.10V. I think that I should probably try again with the CPU-NB volts at 1.25V. I didn't have alot of time to do any more than a few tries last night.

With the CPU speed at 3.6Ghz and stock CPU volts (1.35V) my temperatures are not that high (<40 degrees C).

I just bought the SeaSonic M12D SS-850 850W 80Plus Silver Power Supply, just in case this is a power issue. With only running one video card, there should be plenty of finely regulated power to spare.

 

[neo1138]

I tried running at 3.8 ghz (19X CPU multiplier) with the following settings: CPU volts = 1.50V, CPU-NB at 2.4 Ghz, CPU-NB Volts at auto, HTT speed at auto. System would not boot. Raised CPU volts to 1.55V (seems kinda high), now it boots into Windows but restarts soon after. I did set DCT to Both.

The NB chart on your previous page has 1.25V listed for a NB speed of 2.4Ghz. I think that the stock voltage is only 1.10V. I think that I should probably try again with the CPU-NB volts at 1.25V. I didn't have alot of time to do any more than a few tries last night.

With the CPU speed at 3.6Ghz and stock CPU volts (1.35V) my temperatures are not that high (<40 degrees C).

I would leave it at 3.6ghz with the volts at 1.35V then 3.8ghz and volts at or over 1.5.



no real world performance difference in games between 3.0ghz to 3.8ghz.
only performance in fake syth benches like 3Dmark crap.
games run on gpu more then cpu anyway.

If you are encoding it maybe a bit more faster but I would rather a nice overclock that you already have with low volts then a slightly better overclock with higher volts.

 

[WildWillie]

Computer usage

I enjoy having a snappy computer. I hate having to wait for the dang things. I also enjoy playing some graphically intense games from time to time, but as I grow older there is not as much time for games as there used to be. What I do with my computer in my off time is donate computing time to the Folding@home project. I run four folding programs (one on each CPU) and one on the GPU (folds much faster than even four CPU's). A friend of mine has Alzheimers. It is too late for him unless a cure is found soon, but it would be great if a cure was found and others didn't have to go through it. So, I enjoy squeezing the most out of my computer to fold with a vengeance. I was hoping to get to 4.0Ghz (especially with the cooling system that I have), but I can't make it much past 3.6Ghz. I do realize the frame rate difference is minimal in any games (much better to work on the video card for that). So, next, I am buying the BFG GTX285. That should fold and play games just fine (almost twice as many SP's).

 

[Dolk]

I am going to be away from any computer from Saturday to Thursday sometime next week. Make sure to keep updating in here about what you have been doing, I want to know if you get 3.8ghz

When I get back I'll have everything written up... hopefully that depends on the woman factor.