dual amd for a server?

[mbentley]

my dad has been complaining for weeks that he wants a better way to back up his documents and programs, etc and i am now seriously looking at getting a dual amd server... he also doesn't like the idea of having all the computers daisy chained for broadband internet access so he gave me the task of setting up a small "server" the purpose of this server would to:
1.) host files that would be for general access across my home network of 3 computers
2.) work as storage for backups from all three computers
3.) work as my server (i plan on connecting all the computers through this computer, including my broadbrand internet connection)
4.) maybe work for simple word processing, maybe basic internet browsing
5.) maybe fold from time to time
6.) i would like to run windows 2000 pro on this box
7.) work as a print server for all machines
8.) host a few small personal websites that don't get more than 20 hits per day each

what sort of components would be good for a server? i did a general pricing out of a dualie on newegg. here's the specs:

• Chieftec Server tower DX-01BLD
• Asus AMD 762 Chipset ATX Motherboard Model A7M266D Dual Socket A for AMD AthlonTM MP 1GHz ~ 1.6GHz+
• Chaintech Geforce4 4200 "GT20" 64MB Retail
• 2 - AMD Athlon MP 2000 1.67GHz PROCESSOR CPU - RETAIL BOX
• 2 - SAMSUNG (Original, made by Samsung) 512MB DDR RAM PC2100 - OEM
• MITSUMI D359M3 FDD 1.44MB 3.5INCH - OEM
• WD WESTERN DIGITAL "SPECIAL EDITION" 80GB 7200RPM EIDE HARD DRIVE MODEL # WD800JB - OEM, DRIVE ONLY
• Logitech Office Internet Keyboard - OEM
• Hansol 720E 17" CRT monitor - Retail
• Microsoft Optical Wheel Mouse PS/2 & USB (New Color) Version 1.1a - OEM
• Lite On 48x24x48 CDRW Model LTR-4824S OEM
• 4 - ARCHTEK SMARTLINK PCI ETHERNET CARD (Davicom Chipset)
  
  Total - $ 1,350
  

i just figured that i would use the nic cards as a hub and just use crossover cables for connecting them. would there be any performance differences if i used a hub instead? i just figured that for $5 a card the nic cards would work, plus i really don't need to use the pci slots for anything...

is this overkill for what i want to do with this?

*edit: sorry about the list, but i couldn't get the link from newegg to work... my wishlist wouldn't show up*

 

[himura-dono]

if ur dad doesn't mind paying that much. but you could save some money by going down to a 40X (it's not that much different in time, and you might be able to flash it to 48x firmware)

also, why not go for a less expensive vid card? might save some bucks.


maybe a basic keyboard that costs $10 or less at ur local compusa type place.

xp cpu's instead of mp's.

 

[mbentley]

if ur dad doesn't mind paying that much. but you could save some money by going down to a 40X (it's not that much different in time, and you might be able to flash it to 48x firmware)

also, why not go for a less expensive vid card? might save some bucks.


maybe a basic keyboard that costs $10 or less at ur local compusa type place.

xp cpu's instead of mp's.

in order to get the xp's running dual, don't you have to do some sort of mod? just curous... i am always up for a challenge thanks for the response.

 

[cmcquistion]

Yeah, read the sticky in this forum about the L5 bridge mod for XP's.

You can save some money by just getting XP1600's or 1700's, instead. Still gonna be way more power than you realistically need and you can overclock them to XP2000 speed, easy.

If you are going to overclock this thing, let me suggest two things. First, consider the MSI K7D Master motherboard. It has multiplier, FSB and Vcore control. It is the only dual AMD board with multiplier control. Second, if you want to really push the FSB, no matter what motherboard you decide on, consider using PC2700. I have used Samsung unbuffered PC2700 and had good experience with it. I have also used Samsung Reg. ECC PC2700, Crucial Reg ECC PC2100 and Crucial unbuffered PC2100. All have worked flawlessly at CAS 2. The Samsung PC2700 sticks, however, can overclock nicely.

 

[cack01]

If there is going to be no gaming, I would change the GF4 to a TNT2.

 

[mbentley]

Yeah, read the sticky in this forum about the L5 bridge mod for XP's.

You can save some money by just getting XP1600's or 1700's, instead. Still gonna be way more power than you realistically need and you can overclock them to XP2000 speed, easy.

If you are going to overclock this thing, let me suggest two things. First, consider the MSI K7D Master motherboard. It has multiplier, FSB and Vcore control. It is the only dual AMD board with multiplier control. Second, if you want to really push the FSB, no matter what motherboard you decide on, consider using PC2700. I have used Samsung unbuffered PC2700 and had good experience with it. I have also used Samsung Reg. ECC PC2700, Crucial Reg ECC PC2100 and Crucial unbuffered PC2100. All have worked flawlessly at CAS 2. The Samsung PC2700 sticks, however, can overclock nicely.

thanks for the mobo suggestion. i am new to amd stuff so i don't really know what works well... i appreciate you filling me on on that tid bit of info from your personal experience...
and cack, you're probably right, i could get away with something a lot less powerful for graphics... afterall, this thing is going to have a cheap 17" monitor

 

[FunkDaMonkMan]

1. You should go with XP1600's instead of MP 2000's for two reasons
[ul]
[*] Even the XP's will be overkill
[*] You can mod the XP chips to MP by connecting the last l5 bridge on the chip. You don't have to worry about filling in the gaps like regular unlocking, because it doesn't matter if you short our the underlaying material.
[/ul]
3. I would go with the MSI -k7d board because of its overclocking options.

2. You should go with the pc2100 you already have picked out, but remember that on the MSI - k7d, you can only use unbuffered (non-registered) ram in two banks. If you upgrade to a third chip, all of the chips have to be registered. If you want extreme stability on the memory, go with ECC ram.

4. You are building a powerful machine here, unless you plan on gaming on it, and using it a lot, You should just build a computer with a single XP processor (or slower), generic video card, no monitor (just use another one to set it up, and then take it off), and 512 megs of ram.

 

[cmcquistion]

Consider using IBM 120GXP hard drives, instead of the WD drive. The WD is a great drive, but for file server performance, IBM has the WD beat. You can just about get two IBM drives for the price of one WD drive, too, an added bonus.

My suggestion would be to get two drives. One for the OS, on the Primary IDE channel. Put you CD-ROM's etc on the Secondary IDE channel. Another hard drive for shared storage, on a separate IDE card (either a 66 MHz IDE card or a 33MHz PCI card that is compatible with 66 MHz PCI slots. You don't want to use the 33 MHz slots for a hard drive on a MPX motherboard.) This would give the best performance, as both hard drives can read and write simultaneously.

If you really want the very best, regardless of price, consider a SCSI system. I wouldn't, cause I'm too cheap, but if you're not, than that is something to consider.





BTW: If you mod XP's to MP's I would suggest filling the L5 pits. I have heard that you don't have to and I have done it that way. Recently, however, I started having problems with a dual XP setup on a Tyan Tiger MP. It kept recognizing the CPU's as XP's, instead of MP's and would only run in single-processor mode. I took the CPU's out, tested them one at a time, cleaned and redid the L5 bridge several times, and never got it them to work as MP's. Finally, I tried cleaning off the bridges, filling the pits, then doing the mod again. Lo and behold, it worked perfectly. In the past, I sometimes filled the pits, sometimes didn't. Now that this happened, though, I'm filling the pits every time, from now on.

 

[Jon]

I don't see the need for a dually for the purpose it's going to serve to begin with. Nothing it's going to be doing is going to require much CPU power at all (aside Folding). Lots of storage and a 4-port NIC is about all you're going to need to do with your requirements.

 

[cmcquistion]

True, it's overkill, but it's fun to build computers. Twice as much fun to build a dually.

If it were my dad and he said "Here's some money, build me a file server," I'd build him the best one I could, considering how much he's willing to spend.

Yeah, to be honest, a single Duron system with one hard drive would do the job, but a dual w/ two drives can do the job a little better.

 

[cmcquistion]

BTW, I would suggest just putting two NIC's in the machine and getting a 4 port 10/100 switch, otherwise, you have to use 4 PCI slots, just for NIC's and leave yourself very little upgrade room. Also, this way, the individual computers will be able to trade files amongst themselves, even if the server is down.

 

[mbentley]

True, it's overkill, but it's fun to build computers. Twice as much fun to build a dually.

If it were my dad and he said "Here's some money, build me a file server," I'd build him the best one I could, considering how much he's willing to spend.

Yeah, to be honest, a single Duron system with one hard drive would do the job, but a dual w/ two drives can do the job a little better.

he gave me approx $1400 for the job... he recently lost a number of important files due to a hard drive loss and he's pretty ticked about the whole thing so he is really motivated to get a backup... i figure that he is going to want this to last... like you said, building a dualie would be a good time i would think about a scsi but i don't know much about it and i don't really know much about the cost of it... i suppose that there is no time better than on my thanksgiving break hopefully i will be leaving school soon... this place is a ghost town... most people actually went home friday and skipped 1 or 2 classes... most were cancelled... too bad i had a big math test today or i would have joined them hehe

*edit: do you suggest any certain brand on 10/100 switches?*

 

[cmcquistion]

Another possibility you may want to consider is just getting an internet Router with 4 port 10/100 switch. This has the advantage that all the computers can get on the internet at one time, whether the server is up or not. Also, they will be able to share files with each other if the server is down. Most importantly, though, hardware routers have firewall security built in that surpasses software firewall technology. I recently got one myself after reading lots of reviews and information. The best hardware router available, as far as I can tell is the 4 port Linksys (with plastic body, not the older model metal one.) You can get it for $50-75. Far better internet security than a server alone. Best solution is the hardware router coupled with a software firewall software as well.

 

[cmcquistion]

In my experience, most 10/100 switches are the same. I have used probably a dozen different brands and models. Never had any problems with any of them.

 

[David]

Dual Durons @ 1GHz and a cheap 4Meg card will do the job.

Fileservers only really need a fast connection, loads of fast storage and loads of RAM.

David

 

[Tweaked!]

I would definitely consider either the Msi k7d master or the Iwill mpx2 over the Asus board. I've got the K7d and love it, but the Iwill supposedly has full overclocking features (as in 1 mhz fsb adjustments and multiplier) The K7d is limited to up to 150mhz fsb and multiplier goes to 12.5.

And don't waste your money on the mp chips, you can get the same performance for half the money with the xp chips. Connecting the l5 bridge is really simple and even Bill Gates could probably get that right

And for ram, don't skimp here, go with the registered ddr from the git go. You'll regret it later if you don't. Even though the k7d does support running unregistered in the first two banks, I've got friends that couldn't get theirs to function properly till they converted to the registered. Crucial pc2100 is decently priced and is a decent performer.

As far as the vid card, You can go with the higher priced gf4's, but they're only good for 3dmark and games. Duallies don't really make very good gaming rigs (even though I game all the time on mine, my single proc xp1600 does a little better than the dual xp1600's). So a radeon 8500le 128mb would suffice. Plus it will still run most all the games on the market as of current.

W2k pro is about the best choice for the type of rig you're planning on building, unless you're some kind of Linux guru (which there are plenty around here ).

Hope this helps

 

[cmcquistion]

The Iwill MPX2 does NOT have multiplier support.

I repeat, the Iwill MPX2 does NOT have multiplier support.

Do not buy it under the assumption that it does. It does not. It does, however allow FSB up to 200 MHz. It only has a 1/4 divider, though, so you will never get your FSB that high. 160 MHz FSB is the highest 99% of owners will ever reach. One guy, I repeat, "one guy," got his Iwill MPX2 up to 179 MHz FSB, but he uses an all-SCSI system. SCSI controllers have their own clock generators, so they can handle PCI speeds way out of spec. IDE devices can't, so if you're going to use IDE devices, you are pretty much limited to 160 FSB at best.

In my opinion, the MSI K7D Master is a better choice, even though it only allow FSB up to 150, it has multiplier support and can handle multipliers over 12.5, if you have CPU's over XP2100+.




BTW, I use my dually (with GF4 Ti4600) as a gaming rig and I love it. It is the best gaming machine I have ever had. Background running tasks don't take CPU cycles away from the game, so gameplay is silky smooth, even with lots of other apps running. Also, it is a great game server. It has CPU cycles to spare, so I don't get slowed down and people playing on my server aren't affected by my game.

 

[Tweaked!]

Yeah, I need to make a correction to my earlier statement, after posting this, I found out the Iwill does not have multi support. So much for that board.... Although it does support higher fsb's, I'd much rather o/c with multiplier support.

 

[Mr B]

In my opinion, the MSI K7D Master is a better choice, even though it only allow FSB up to 150, it has multiplier support and can handle multipliers over 12.5, if you have CPU's over XP2100+.

There's one question I always wanted to know, but was afraid to ask....

Multi's over 12.5x are supported....

*files knowledge away for rainy day*

Thanks!!

 

[Tweaked!]

Yeah, how did you get K7d above 12.5? Mine doesn't go any farther...