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Duplicate WU question...

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torin3

Member
Joined
Dec 25, 2004
Ok, I know you are supposed to used different machine IDs for each folding instance on the same computer to avoid getting duplicate WUs.

But what happens when you get the same WU on 2 different machines?

I've included HFM screenshots below. The first 2 instances are on my main machine, and the following 4 are on my media server. On my main machine, the GPU2 client that is working on the duplicate WU is Machine ID 3, and the one on my media server is machine ID 5.

Is there a way to avoid this happening again? This is the second time in a week I've noticed this. (Thanks Harlam for having such an easy way to see duplicates!)

copy1.png

copy2.png
 

ArcticElf

Chilly Elf
Joined
Nov 4, 2008
To verify results, all WU's are sent out to be refolded. That's how you can check that the results are valid.

Other checks can ensure gross errors haven't occurred, but the only way to check all the results, is to have the WU folded, again, by another rig, and then compare the data they return.
 
OP
torin3

torin3

Member
Joined
Dec 25, 2004
Huh....

I guess the odd thing then is that I've never noticed it before...

:shrug:
 

harlam357

Senior Fold-a-holic
Joined
Sep 22, 2004
That's a mighty fine monitor you're running there torin. ;)

Everyone has already given you the scoop on the dups... however, I thought I'd let you (or anyone else know) that you can turn that check on or off depending on your preference.... just check (wait for it.....) the Preferences! :D

And oh yeah, those are my stats in the Status Bar... and the User Name isn't configured for your name either.

Here's your EOC ID #: 276319

HFM_Web_Prefs.png
 
OP
torin3

torin3

Member
Joined
Dec 25, 2004
Thanks, fixed that now.

It will be even more relevant in a week when I get the next 295 in my system.
 

ChasR

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 12, 2004
Location
Atlanta
It simply isn't true that all the Wus are sent out for verification. WUs that don't come back on time are duplicated and sent out. What i've been seeing are dupes beng sent out by the server at almost the same time. It may be a server glitch or normal behavior for a lost WU.
 

ArcticElf

Chilly Elf
Joined
Nov 4, 2008
It simply isn't true that all the Wus are sent out for verification. WUs that don't come back on time are duplicated and sent out. What i've been seeing are dupes beng sent out by the server at almost the same time. It may be a server glitch or normal behavior for a lost WU.

Then how are the WU results verified?

The only comprehensive way to do it, is to have it folded a second time, and then a computer can compare the output, and quickly find any differences between the two sets of data. That may be done in-house, but there's simply no way all of FAH's WU's could be re-folded, in house. Might have been true when FAH was a smaller project.

If the results of aren't thoroughly checked, then it's not good science.
 

ihrsetrdr

Señor Senior Member
Joined
May 17, 2005
Location
Close to the San Andreas Fault
It simply isn't true that all the Wus are sent out for verification. WUs that don't come back on time are duplicated and sent out. What i've been seeing are dupes beng sent out by the server at almost the same time. It may be a server glitch or normal behavior for a lost WU.

It's always been my understanding that the same WU needs to have multiple trials in order to verify results.


...my apologies if I have misinformed.
 

ChasR

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 12, 2004
Location
Atlanta
That's the way boinc does it, but it isn't the way FAH works. When the WU is returned, the next generation is created by the server. Checks are internal to the FAH core. If you don't believe me, go ask the question yourself on the Folding Forum.
 

ChasR

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 12, 2004
Location
Atlanta
It is a general misconception brought to FAH circles by those nasty BOINC people. :D I didn't mean to come across as nasty as my reply reads to me. I guess that what emoticons are for. ;)

I found what I was looking for on the Folding Forum from toTow, Super Moderator:

1) Theoretically, each WU is assigned once. Only special situations triggers a multiple assignments of a WU :

- preferred deadline has passed
- EUE/UM
- server bug or special configuration
 

ihrsetrdr

Señor Senior Member
Joined
May 17, 2005
Location
Close to the San Andreas Fault
It is a general misconception brought to FAH circles by those nasty BOINC people. :D I didn't mean to come across as nasty as my reply reads to me. I guess that what emoticons are for. ;)

:grouphug:

I found what I was looking for on the Folding Forum from toTow, Super Moderator:

1) Theoretically, each WU is assigned once. Only special situations triggers a multiple assignments of a WU :

- preferred deadline has passed
- EUE/UM
- server bug or special configuration

Yes, I recall that now, but had instead confused [email protected] with BOINC. :rolleyes:

It's been a tough day- a forum that I admin was offline part of the day because the hosting site was slow to renew the domain; also, 2 of my personal machines abruptly decided to go stupid....:rain:
 

ArcticElf

Chilly Elf
Joined
Nov 4, 2008
It is a general misconception brought to FAH circles by those nasty BOINC people. :D I didn't mean to come across as nasty as my reply reads to me. I guess that what emoticons are for. ;)

I found what I was looking for on the Folding Forum from toTow, Super Moderator:

1) Theoretically, each WU is assigned once. Only special situations triggers a multiple assignments of a WU :

- preferred deadline has passed
- EUE/UM
- server bug or special configuration

OK, I see the problem. I'm not looking at this theoretically enough. :)

In practice, you have to validate your results before they're accepted as factual. You can't do that with one run, on one computer.

That has nothing to do with BOINC, and everything to do with the scientific method.
 

StaTek

Member
Joined
May 13, 2005
Sometimes you can get dupes if you have the same user IDs on your boxes. They should never match...reasons that they can match are when you ghost/clone a PC/VM. I am not talking about your name and team number...this UserID is the hex number assigned to the PC/VM the first time the folding client is ran. When you have boxes that have the same userID working on the same WU, you will not get credit for the duplicate WU.

If you do have matching user ID's you need to delete one of the UserIDs from the registry. For me it's located at "\HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\ SOFTWARE\ Wow6432Node\ PandeGroup\ [email protected]"

Stop the folding client, Run regedit, Delete the UserID key, Restart the folding client. When the client gets restarted, the PC/VM will be assigned a new UserID from Standford's server.
 
Last edited:

harlam357

Senior Fold-a-holic
Joined
Sep 22, 2004
HFM also checks for Duplicate ID values. Really as a combination of UserID and MachineID. This hex value, as you've pointed out, is actually a combination of what is reported to the user as UserID and MachineID, and it is stored in the queue.dat as that combination. To get the UserID out of the combined ID, one must first subtract the MachineID. So in that sense you are completely correct, no ID (even on the same machine) should ever be the same.

In HFM if the queue.dat is not available, the log files only report UserID and MachineID separately, so the check was initially created with that data in mind. So even with the queue.dat data available, the check is still made on the basis of UserID and MachineID matching their individual counterparts, not the combined ID value as seen in the queue.dat.
 
OP
torin3

torin3

Member
Joined
Dec 25, 2004
Just posting with additional data here.

I've got another set of duplicate WU folding again. On 2 separate physical machines.

The WU is:
Project 5769 (Run 11, Clone 160, Gen 590)

On the first machine it lists my User ID as: 74FDBC6306BEE67D
On the first machine it lists my Machine ID as: 5
On the second machine it lists my User ID as: 1F8709254A8E84C7
On the second machine it lists my Machine ID as: 3

I've never gotten around to getting a Passkey. Would getting one and entering in the config help avoid this? I'm thinking that while I'm getting the points anyway, from what has been posted here, it isn't helping the projects as much.
 
OP
torin3

torin3

Member
Joined
Dec 25, 2004
Passkey won't make any difference. You will need one soon though.

Ok. Just one of those things then, I guess.

Are the passkeys going to be required soon?

Oh, and thank you for being so willing to post the edits for the VM config file to set the priority right. It was easy to find one when I switched to VMWare Player 3.0.0 last light. I know I should have gotten around to it earlier, but I was lazy.

If you weren't already a senior, I'd be nominating you on a regular basis. You are a real asset to this team and to folding in general.

:salute: