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First for me: PSU and Battery Back Up underpowered.

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Brutal-Force

Member
Joined
Feb 22, 2009
Last month I picked up a 10980xe. I also have a EVGA 1080 Graphics card Overclocked. I have an Corsair 850W PSU, 3 X 3000RPM Noctua Fans, one 6000RPM fan, a sound card and a couple of drives. I am coming from a i9 7900x where I didn't have this problem.

I have been working on my overclock and noticed that I can run almost every test but small FFTS. The entire time, I thought it was because my overclock was unstable.

I had a theory that my system power supply was pushing the limit, so I purchased a Kill-a-watt. In testing, a low overclock could hit about 740-760 watts. I was surprised, but I figured my 850 would be just enough. When I try to run P95 SFFT, the system just shuts down and reboots. I figured, I would lower my OC as low as possible.

I continued to lower my OC from 5.3, lower and lower until I eventually got to [email protected]. When I ran P95 SFFT, my Battery Back up APC began to scream, I was hitting +915 Watts on the Kill-a-watt directly at the APC. Quickly I exited P95 and the noise stopped.

So in fact I am exceeding my Power Supply's stated wattage and my APC's ability to supply battery back up under load.

So to the question: Since I normally will not be running P95 small FFTs and/or software where this would need that much power, am I safe to stay on this PSU, and has anyone else ever run into the problem that their PSU has limited their overclock?
 

EarthDog

Gulper Nozzle Co-Owner
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Dec 15, 2008
Location
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If that PSU is working properly, it shouldn't be limiting your overclock. I havent run small fft (I don't run p95 anymore), but my 750W psu and 3080 work just fine. Of you're not using your gpu, I have no idea how you could be pulling so much wattage..

Also, 915W at the wall is around 825W actual (assuming 90% efficiency)l...less than your psus rating, no? How old is that TX850? Those were OK units back in the day.
 
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EarthDog

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That's why I said exactly that and asked how old it was. They were certainly nothing to write home about. :)
 
OP
Brutal-Force

Brutal-Force

Member
Joined
Feb 22, 2009
If that PSU is working properly, it shouldn't be limiting your overclock. I havent run small fft (I don't run p95 anymore), but my 750W psu and 3080 work just fine. Of you're not using your gpu, I have no idea how you could be pulling so much wattage..

Also, 915W at the wall is around 825W actual (assuming 90% efficiency)l...less than your psus rating, no? How old is that TX850? Those were OK units back in the day.

I looked it up. I RMA'd this PSU in Sep. 2017, they sent me a new one, so its 4 years old? It really isn't limiting my overclock per say. When I OC, I typically follow this scenario.

  1. Set up my base OC like Luumi on Youtube does. I started at 4.4Ghz.
  2. I run a small stability test using Cinebench.
  3. If Cinebench is stable, I run OCCT and HWinfo together.
  4. OCCT is set to Normal, Medium and Steady with Auto Threads
  5. If no errors, raise OC until unstable in Cinebench.
  6. Raise Vcore .010V try again. Once stable enough to run Cinebench, recheck with OCCT and HwInfo.
  7. Continue until a) reach 95 degrees on OCCT and no Throttleing.
  8. If Cinebench score drops, lower overclock/voltage.

I am not sure the problem is actually the power supply, but more the APC. It screams (overcurrent) once it exceeds 900W which is what it is rated at. I will need to unplug and plug it in the wall to be sure, but my guess is I am pulling about what you are estimating. The 915W is actually on the Kill-a-watt screen, which is as accurate as a Kill-a-watt can be. I actually think I am overtaxing my APC, not my PSU. It is also close to 4 years old as well. I've attached a Screenshot of 5 min. in OCCT. Temps are well below where they need to be. I can run medium, but neither small in P95 or OCCT. Either AVX is too much for my PSU or my PSU is just weak. I could upgrade to test the theory, but 1000W is in the $4-500 range and practically unavailable.

OCCT Loat at 4600Ghz.PNG
 
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freeagent

Member
Joined
Sep 15, 2004
Location
Winnipeg!
What do the software readings for 12 5 and 3.3v show when you are loaded up?

I honestly wouldn't be surprised if your PSU is tired already. High wattage systems are just hard on them. I went through 2x 850w PSU's and started on a third over the life of my X58 rig pulling similar numbers @ the wall. I ran that rig for 8 years solid.
 
OP
Brutal-Force

Brutal-Force

Member
Joined
Feb 22, 2009
It looks like it pulls the 12V rail to 9V? Bad PSU?

I tried unplugging from the APC and going straight to the wall. Same thing, pulls almost 945W at the wall.
 

EarthDog

Gulper Nozzle Co-Owner
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Dec 15, 2008
Location
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If your 12V rail was actually at 9V, I dont think the system would work at all. I'd use a multi-meter to see as software is notoriously inaccurate.

Worth noting....the cpu peaked at 297W. Not sure where the other 500W+ are coming from in a CPU test... since it's an APC, does that have other things on it like a monitor (and things unrelated to the psu for the pc)? It sounds like you're right though and the app is getting antsy, and rightfully so, at its peak rating.
 
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OP
Brutal-Force

Brutal-Force

Member
Joined
Feb 22, 2009
If your 12V rail was actually at 9V, I dont think the system would work at all. I'd use a multi-meter to see as software is notoriously inaccurate.

Worth noting....the cpu peaked at 297W. Not sure where the other 500W+ are coming from in a CPU test... since it's an APC, does that have other things on it like a monitor (and things unrelated to the psu for the pc)? It sounds like you're right though and the app is getting antsy, and rightfully so, at its peak rating.

You are correct, HWinfo is not correct. In bios it reads 11.91V. To verify, I plugged in a brand new (older but still in the package) Corsair CX850M. (makes noise btw). It didn't make any difference. Still 9v in software as well, so that isn't it. It also exibits the exact same problems.

I eliminated the APC by plugging straight into the wall. Under load, I pull roughly 950watts from the wall. I have no other large users on this circuit, so its gotta be that my Power Supply needs to be a higher wattage.

As for additional wattage, I have one Beast 6W fan (6000RPM) for when I bench.

The Beast - 6W
4x Noctua 3000 RPMs- 12W
GTX 1080 = 180W +/- for OC
Hard drive
Sound card
10980xe


That's all I can think of. From Tom's Hardware, they found a 618W power consumption when Overclocked to 5.0. Just putting the CPU and GPU together would account for about 800W. I really don't think 900W is out of the realm of possibility and I am just a touch over the limit of a 850W PSU.

Capture.PNG
 

freeagent

Member
Joined
Sep 15, 2004
Location
Winnipeg!
When I said goodbye to my TX850 it struggled to show 11.8v and crashes would come at 11.4v and lower.. I saw you had one in your sig after I posted.. sorry man. My 3.3 would struggle to show 3.18v and would tank to 2.8v My 5v was ok though @ 4.8v :D

Man that thing is ancient :D
 
OP
Brutal-Force

Brutal-Force

Member
Joined
Feb 22, 2009
So to test a theory, I lowered the overclock. at 4.6GHz and 1.325V, Kill-a-watt shows 849W at the wall during Cinebench R20.

I think I am maxed out power wise. I cannot otherwise explain it. I guess I will live with my TX850 until it dies and then upgrade to 1000w or 1200w. Prices right now are kinda insane.
 

EarthDog

Gulper Nozzle Co-Owner
Joined
Dec 15, 2008
Location
Buckeyes!
You are correct, HWinfo is not correct. In bios it reads 11.91V. To verify, I plugged in a brand new (older but still in the package) Corsair CX850M. (makes noise btw). It didn't make any difference. Still 9v in software as well, so that isn't it. It also exibits the exact same problems.

I eliminated the APC by plugging straight into the wall. Under load, I pull roughly 950watts from the wall. I have no other large users on this circuit, so its gotta be that my Power Supply needs to be a higher wattage.

As for additional wattage, I have one Beast 6W fan (6000RPM) for when I bench.

The Beast - 6W
4x Noctua 3000 RPMs- 12W
GTX 1080 = 180W +/- for OC
Hard drive
Sound card
10980xe


That's all I can think of. From Tom's Hardware, they found a 618W power consumption when Overclocked to 5.0. Just putting the CPU and GPU together would account for about 800W. I really don't think 900W is out of the realm of possibility and I am just a touch over the limit of a 850W PSU.

View attachment 213494
You're running a cpu stress test to reach that value (right?)..the gpu is idle. You're also not at 5ghz. Tom's shows 360W (max) at 4.8 GHz...thats cpu only, but add another 100W-125W at most and that's still half.
https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/intel-core-i9-10980xe/2

It may be the psu, it likely is. but I've been running a 7900x to 10980xe with a 2080 super then a 3080 on a 750W unit with no issues. I don't have a 6W fan, but I do run a water pump and 5 total fans. I'm just stuck on figuring out how your system us pulling 900W+ from the wall on a cpu stress test... that doesn't make any sense.
 
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OP
Brutal-Force

Brutal-Force

Member
Joined
Feb 22, 2009
You're running a cpu stress test...the gpu is idle. You're also not at 5ghz. Tom's shows 360W (max) at 4.8 GHz...
https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/intel-core-i9-10980xe/2

You mean, a larger UPS unit?

It may be the psu, but I've been running a 7900x to 10980xe with a 2080 suoer then a 3080 on a 750 unit with no issues.

You are right, running a CPU stress test. Prime95 or OCCT small/extreme. My GPU is overclocked, but idle, so you are right. I am not at 5ghz, only [email protected].

I am scratching my head too, why I pull 900W but that's not just one power supply, that's on two, one of which is NIB.

I know about your 7900x :p you sold it to me. I de-lidded it and used it for 2.5 years. :).

I used two 850W PSUs, one is new out of the box (unfortunately, I just took it out of the box and it has a coil whine and I bought it 3 years ago as a back up at Best Buy but lost the receipt). Its the last time I buy a computer component to sit on the shelf.

My TX850M could probably be warrantied. I have the reciept 10/1/2017, and a TX series has a 5 year warranty, but.... is it really bad?

I think I will just buy a HX 1200, and then try and RMA the TX850M and put it in another build.

Decisions, Decisions....

ED, would you mind trying to run P95 on small FFT? See if your computer shuts off?
 
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OP
Brutal-Force

Brutal-Force

Member
Joined
Feb 22, 2009
Gamer's Nexus at 4.9 and 1.22V pulls 521W at the EPS 12V cable. That is without system voltages


I feel like you are right in that, 850W should be enough and either way I need a PSU, but I just can't get out of my head that two PSUs had this problem.

Again, I am not plugged into the UPS at the moment, straight into the wall. My OC also pulls more voltage for a lower stable OC. 4.7 requires 1.4v and 4.6 requires 1.325.

That is a good .2V higher than GN.
 

EarthDog

Gulper Nozzle Co-Owner
Joined
Dec 15, 2008
Location
Buckeyes!
Jebus... 1.4V... thats probably why... lol, I couldn't run p95 anywhere near that with my 3x120 aio, lol... with ht enabled this is about where I max out.

Happy to test that later this evening when I'm at the pc.
 
OP
Brutal-Force

Brutal-Force

Member
Joined
Feb 22, 2009
I wanted to share a little perspective.

If I am clocked at 4.6 Ghz, 1.325V and run Cinebench R20 - I get a Kill-a-watt reading of 900-950W and Cinebench crashes

If I am clocked at 4.7 Ghz, 1.4V and run Cinebench R20 - I get a Kill-a-watt reading of 1020-1040W and Cinebench crashes

If I am clocked using the below settings, I get a really high score and no throttleing with a Kill-a-watt reading of about 890W

Voltages 2 resize.jpg
 
OP
Brutal-Force

Brutal-Force

Member
Joined
Feb 22, 2009
Well,

I just watched Jays2Cents video on his Overclock with a 7980xe. His Kill-a-watt showed 600Watts during Cinebench. That is a solid 250 watts less than mine. So either my KAW is faulty, my PSU is faulty or another item in my system pulls too much wattage. The TDP of both chips is 165, clocks a little higher (400 mhz), same instruction sets.

One for one, they should probably be about the same. I have ordered another PSU (Corsair RM1000x) as its the cheapest 1000W+ PSU I could get on short notice. I'll give it a go, hopefully its just the Power supply.
 

EarthDog

Gulper Nozzle Co-Owner
Joined
Dec 15, 2008
Location
Buckeyes!
Yeah, not sure what's up... my Cinebench at 4.6 GHz 1.20V peaked at 555W at the wall (10.4K score). Hwinfo nor core temp is reading the wattage so not sure what the CPU is drawing. I'd assume well over 300W.

With AVX-512 enabled, I can't run 4.6 Ghz as i instantly thermally throttle it seems. I haven't tried disabling it.
 
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Brutal-Force

Brutal-Force

Member
Joined
Feb 22, 2009
Yeah, not sure what's up... my Cinebench at 4.6 GHz 1.20V peaked at 555W at the wall (10.4K score). Hwinfo nor core temp is reading the wattage so not sure what the CPU is drawing. I'd assume well over 300W.

With AVX-512 enabled, I can't run 4.6 Ghz as I instantly thermally throttle it seems. I haven't tried disabling it.

I appreciate it ED. Considering you peaked 555 at the wall, that's pretty much on par with what I have seen at that voltage (in other videos and write ups). Something else is wonky here. Could be my Kill-a-watt, but that wouldn't explain the shutting down. Like I said, I ordered a 1000w PSU, we will see how that does. If I am in fact drawing that much, there has to be something wrong with my system and only under load. At idle, I am only at 220W.

Not that I intentionally plan to run my PC 24/7 at 4.7, but I "should" be able to with my CPU staying below 95. I also know that 1.4 is excessive for every day, but it isn't breaking the rules either.

Edit: I will be pulling out the amp clamp to check the power supply input amperage and the voltages. I want to see what they are pulling. If the KAW is correct, I should be seeing about 75 amps @12V being pulled from the PSU.

I will also check individual power draw of the fans/gpu. While I find it hard to believe, a fan could still be pulling 3 amps (my San Ace Denki) if it is good, more if it is bad.
 
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