First WC build [critique please]

[dcolodny]

I've read as much as my brain can absorb (and its starting to feel mushy), including some very good posts on how to choose parts for a loop. Even though it did an excellent job of educating me as to the fundamentals of why things work the way they do in a loop and what to look for, I still don't have enough data to decide on a pump


My loop will consist of (in order):


Phobya G1/4 Inline Temp Sensor Coupler
Bitspower Galaxy Universal RAM Module Liquid Cooling Block - 4-DIMMs - Clear (BP-RAMS44-CLBK) Cosair Vengance Pro (4 DIMMs) (just because)
Swiftech Apogee XL Extreme Performance Universal CPU Waterblock - Acrylic (Intel / AMD) i7-4790k
Swiftech The Komodo NV-LE Full Cover VGA Waterblock w/ Backplate (KOMODO-NV-LE) reference 780ti (EVGA 2884)
Swiftech The Komodo NV-LE Full Cover VGA Waterblock w/ Backplate (KOMODO-NV-LE) reference 780ti (EVGA 2884)
Aquaero 6 XT
Phobya G1/4 Inline Temp Sensor Coupler
Black Ice Nemesis GTX 480 Radiator

FrozenQ Liquid Fusion Dark Blue Helix Reservoir
Bitspower G1/4 Thread Flow Sensor
Pump (TBD based on need)


First custom loop and I had to dive in to the deep end...weeeeee!


I plan on using Primochill 1/2"OD acrylic tubing (UV blue). Probably an excessive amount, too.(after reading a few posts on it, the last section before the pump will have matching regular, flexible tubing to avoid cracking from vibration.) The NZXT Hue will handle the non-uv lights, the MB the Noiseblocker M12-S1 fans (6dbA; .36w/.003A @12V; 34cfm), the Aquaero 6 XT will handle the pump(s), any fans the MB can't (unlikely, given that 1 header could handle 30+ M12-S1 fans), and the UV lighting.


This Enthoo Primo will be a thing of beauty!...eventually


A few loose ends...


I can see I have a possible flow impedance of 6.1 PSI or so (can someone confirm this?), so I'm looking at dual pumps (expected). I also wanted to run my pumps at or below 60% to minimize noise and prolong their life expectancy. Given this, what pump(s) would be recommended?

I'm also not married to those fans. I'd like a silent machine, but with the Aquaero, I should have enough control over my fans to get that silence.

That leads me to the radiator. Most of the components that generate heat are watercooled, so air inside the case should be relatively cool. The case itself can support an insane number of radiators for its price. 120.4 up top, 120.3 on bottom, 120.2 in front, a 120.2 on the side and a 120.1 in the rear for effectively 120.12! Other configurations exist too. instead of the 120.2 in front, you can replace the 120.3 for a 120.4 on the bottom, but you lose 120mm2 of surface area. The bottom area is deep enough for a Monsta in push/pull without sacrificing anything more than you would if you wanted to put ANY radiator there (1x 120mm fan). The top can take a 60mm thick rad in push/pull too! Did I mention I love this case?

Is 120.4 enough for those parts, and have I chosen a good radiator? How much does radiator placement matter? I'd prefer not to (unless specifically told otherwise) put a rad on an air intake, as this would lead to warmer air temps inside the case - or so common sense would say.

As I said, my mind is kind mush about this (information overload), and I would appreciate any concrete tips or suggestions.

This project is still in the planning phase, with the first purchases likely 18-24 months out. I do plan on a complete build log when the time comes though (and yes, I do know I'm planning WAAAY in advance. Need to save up!)

 

[Daddyjaxx]

On e 120.4 is not enough rad for that. Without overclocking, the 780TI's are 500w total at 100%, the CPU is around 80w. Figure with overclocking, a minimum of 600+w on the GPU's and 125 on the CPU. That's 120.8 minimum.

You aren't helping with the RAM blocks and temp sensors. They are not needed at all. It's just added restriction. The RAM probably puts out the least heat of anything. If you want to keep the warm air out of the case, you are better off cooling the PCH and VRM. Seriously. the temps between the hottest and coolest part of the loop will be at most .5c

It's always better to pull fresh cool air over the rad and into the case than vice versa.

The Swiftech GPU block is fine, but I don't know about their GPU blocks. The Black Ice rads typically have a higher fins per inch which requires faster fans.

 

[dcolodny]

So your advice would be to put the rads on the intakes instead? How would that affect the non WC parts? Aren't you just dumping heat back into the system?

Any thoughts on pumps? Forget the RAM block, but I think I'll keep one of the temp sensors.

Also I just found out that Nvidia may be discontinuing the 780ti production, so I'll probably be moving to the 980 (165w TDP) as I'm planning on doing this in stages.

Check my math: 2 of those would be 330w (The 980 only has overhaead for 5% theoretical OC from the reports, so no overclock here), the CPU stock is 88w, but we'll go with your number of 125w, so we're up to 455w? That's 120.6?

 

[Supertrucker]

For what it's worth, I run a pair of overclocked 290s and an overclocked 4670k on a 120.4. A thin, budget swiftech 120.4 no less. With fairly quiet 1450rpm fans, and my temps are fine. 10-11℃ delta while gaming and 13-14℃ delta under synthetic load.

But with the fans you picked, I would be looking at at least 120.8, if not more, and the lowest Fpi rad you can find. I think that would be the hardware labs sr1 but I might be mistaken. That nemesis rad you picked is 16fpi so it's going to be better suited to something in the 1200+rpm range of fans.


Edit: and if you want your computer so quiet you are going with 750rpm fans you will want either a d5 pwm pump or an mcp35x/x2 pwm, possibly the new mcp50x but I've never used it and don't know how it sounds. The 35x pumps are quiet at low rpm but they have motor whine at full speed that I can hear over the rest of my system and my fans are probably twice as loud as yours.

 

[dcolodny]

Like I said, I'm not married to those fans. If you want to suggest a better option for fans I'd be more than open to that. The Aquaero 6 has 4 channels that can take up to 36W/3A (Normally 30W/2.5A, but I'm cooling that too), and I have no problem loading it up as needed.

 

[Supertrucker]

It's not that fan brand, it's the fan speed. Every fan you can get from a 3$ yate loon to a 27$ noiseblocker is going to be just not that effective for radiator cooling.

http://martinsliquidlab.org/2012/04/14/360-radiator-shootout-summary/

In that review you can see a radiators ability to dissipate heat double going from 600rpm to 1200rpm. Even the radiators that are tuned to work best at sub 1k rpm are going to be limited in performance.

I went with gentle typhoon ap -14s because they seemed to me to be the best compromise between noise and performance. 1450rpm in push pull was enough to get my computer to the overclocks I wanted while still being quiet enough that a ceiling fan or window fan or pretty much any white noise would drown it out. My computer isn't silent, if nothing else in the room is on I can hear it. But it doesn't take much white noise to mask it and that is all I wanted.

What kind of noise you can live with is up to you. If you really want flexibility I would go with pwm based fans like the noctua nf-f12 and a good thick radiator like the xspc rx or alphacool ut-60 line that scales well across a wide range of rpm. Couple that with a pwm splitter and you can set it all up off your motherboard fan header based on what you find tolerable. In the enthoo case I would do a 120.4 exhaust in the top. With the lower tdp 980s and noctua fans you could get good results with just that. If you wanted really good temps I would also try to do a 120.1 exhaust on the back or 120.2 exhaust in the front.

 

[dcolodny]

I initially chose that fan before thinking PWM and it kinda carried over - even after I chose a very advanced fan controller. According to several iPhone apps (questionably accurate, but that's why I used several) my background noise is around 45 dbA, and given that I don't use headphones when I game, I want to hear the game, not the fans.

I'm now re-evaluating the fans.

There's going to be 18 of them (2 front, 2 right, 4 bottom, 8 top [p/p], 2 rear [p/p]) and that would be 44 dba. Taking in to consideration the number of fans and the ambient noise, I'm looking for a sub-25 dbA fan. 18 of those should come in under 35 dbA, giving me a 10 dbA margin from ambient. It's not silent, but if you can't hear it over the ambient, it's just as good, right?

Thoughts on fans?

 

[Supertrucker]

Noctuas are supposed to be great. Gentle typhoons were the king of noise per cfm on radiators but they have been discontinued.

http://martinsliquidlab.org/2010/11/04/120mm-fan-testing-on-an-mcr120-radiator-round-6-summary/

 

[dcolodny]

Pretty much settled on Corsair's AF/SP 120/140 fans. Quick question though.

The SP's are designed to push air through restrictive spaces, what about pulling air? Would it make sense to have SP push and and AF pull?

Just noticed I've been a heel and not thanked you. I'd be lost without you guys. Thanks! You guys rock!

 

[Daddyjaxx]

Push is always better than pull. I would not mix fans. Use the same for push and pull. Mixing fans running against each other is generally not a good idea. It doesn't help the life of any of them.

 

[GTXJackBauer]

Here's my take on this.

Since you chose the Aquaero 6, go with their designated D5 PWM pumps, threaded temp probes, flow sensor and LEDs. Depending on the sensor they won't really add restrictions in the loop and since you're going with such a premium controller, why not add the bells and whistles to it. I know I sure would.

Swiftechs PWM variant can not be used with the aquaero 6 because this pump does not follow the PWM standard and lacks the required 5V pullup circuit for the PWM signal. - Aquaero

As for the pumps, some 3rd party PWM pumps seem to have issues with the Aquaero XT.

If you go with their components, you sure yourself of no compatibility issues with that beastly controller.

For radiator fans, depends what radiators you're going with. You could go with the 16 FPI Nemesis, new product line, as they are designed for low to mid RPM fans but haven't seen any benchmarks of it yet. Either go with that or the low FPI Black Ice SR-1s with a nice set of Noiseblocker B12 PWM fans. They basically took the place of the AP-15s as I've read many positive things about the B12s. They got good pressure and are extremely silent under 800/1000 RPM.

Won't get into on how much radiator you'll need since components to a build 1-2 years away are most likely to change. There's a few "rule of thumbs" when it comes to radiators per components but I'd say for every 120.1 is roughly 100w of heat dissipation.

As for the case, do you have this case already? I like the Enthoo case but I like a more open concept case design like the Corsair 900D and the likes. If budget ain't a issue, take a look at Caselabs.

You got 1-2 years so components could change by than and I am sure they will as well as the liquid cooling community and parts. More than enough time but its nice that you took the leap and get yourself settled before the big plunge.

 

[dcolodny]

Thanks Jack,

I was thinking of the MCP35x2 (overkill, but I want to run it low), and that seems to work well with the Aquaero. As far as I can tell, it's specific to the 655-PWM, as that lacks a 5V regulator circuit that is part of the PWM standard. <sarcasm>Great job Swiftech!</sarcasm>

The temperature sensors use a standard 10K ohm 2-pin setup, so any brand will do. Now that you mention it, I don't have absolute confirmation that the flow sensor will work. I'll have to research that some more.

I had said I chose the corsair fans, but after further research, they seem to be a bit loud. I had selected the Sceptre Pros, but at 26 dbA each at max, they were slightly higher than I wanted (<25 dbA). I will look into the B12 PWMs, and thanks for the heads up on them. I started with the thought of the M12-S1 fans. They didn't have the pressure I needed but 34CFM @ 6 dbA @ 750RPM was very attractive. They also were the right RPM for the "Low-RPM Optimized" Nemesis.

I went with that radiator mostly because it was the only one that said it was good for sub-800 rpm fans. I also chose a 480 because it was the biggest single rad I could fit. I laugh now at myself and the uneducated shopper antics. As to the rad size, I'm planning for the CPU (125W with OC, but 88 stock), and 2 GTX980's (165W each, they're horrible for OCing apparently), so 455W total. Grr, looks like I'll need 2 rads after all... Easy fix, 2nd 480 on the floor. That should take care of things and add room to get a third 980 as well (that would bring the wattage up to 620, and the effective radiators to 120.8 - plenty of overhead). I've even gone so far as to plot the radiator layout and tubing in OpenOffice Draw. (OCD? ) Le Sigh, gotta go back and amend the layout...

No, I don't currently have the Enthoo Primo. I like it because it is very good at both water cooling and air cooling. I plan to put a full air cooled setup in there in about 9mo, then later add more guts (second 980, bigger SSD) and make the move to water cooling in the same case. I drooled over CaseLabs and Mountain Mods cases, but at the end of the day they were just too much. I did consider the 900D, but its air cooling performance lags behind the Primo (and a few more nitpicks).

Update: Tthe B12-P or -PS fans are not good for pull configurations. I plan a push/pull on both rads, so no go for those. The Bitfenix Spectre Pro PWMs seem to be the best choice so far, for both air and later for radiators.

 

[GTXJackBauer]

Thanks Jack,

I was thinking of the MCP35x2 (overkill, but I want to run it low), and that seems to work well with the Aquaero. As far as I can tell, it's specific to the 655-PWM, as that lacks a 5V regulator circuit that is part of the PWM standard. <sarcasm>Great job Swiftech!</sarcasm>

The temperature sensors use a standard 10K ohm 2-pin setup, so any brand will do. Now that you mention it, I don't have absolute confirmation that the flow sensor will work. I'll have to research that some more.

I had said I chose the corsair fans, but after further research, they seem to be a bit loud. I had selected the Sceptre Pros, but at 26 dbA each at max, they were slightly higher than I wanted (<25 dbA). I will look into the B12 PWMs, and thanks for the heads up on them. I started with the thought of the M12-S1 fans. They didn't have the pressure I needed but 34CFM @ 6 dbA @ 750RPM was very attractive. They also were the right RPM for the "Low-RPM Optimized" Nemesis.

I went with that radiator mostly because it was the only one that said it was good for sub-800 rpm fans. I also chose a 480 because it was the biggest single rad I could fit. I laugh now at myself and the uneducated shopper antics. As to the rad size, I'm planning for the CPU (125W with OC, but 88 stock), and 2 GTX980's (165W each, they're horrible for OCing apparently), so 455W total. Grr, looks like I'll need 2 rads after all... Easy fix, 2nd 480 on the floor. That should take care of things and add room to get a third 980 as well (that would bring the wattage up to 620, and the effective radiators to 120.8 - plenty of overhead). I've even gone so far as to plot the radiator layout and tubing in OpenOffice Draw. (OCD? ) Le Sigh, gotta go back and amend the layout...

No, I don't currently have the Enthoo Primo. I like it because it is very good at both water cooling and air cooling. I plan to put a full air cooled setup in there in about 9mo, then later add more guts (second 980, bigger SSD) and make the move to water cooling in the same case. I drooled over CaseLabs and Mountain Mods cases, but at the end of the day they were just too much. I did consider the 900D, but its air cooling performance lags behind the Primo (and a few more nitpicks).

Sounds good. You seem to know your stuff and have done extensive research. I could have gone with the specifics as well but didn't want to throw you off. I know the D5 PWMs are the main issue and any temp probe would work. I 'll save you the headache but if you use a 3rd party flow sensor to the AQ6, you'll need to do some type of wire mod. I already asked that question on their forums. If not the mod and calibration than their own flow sensor will do.

Keep us posted.

 

[dcolodny]

I was looking around and it seems it's the AQ6's pinning that's the culprit with the flow sensor. Their flow meter cable for the AQ6 is 3-pin (both ends female, one non-standard) with two of the wires crossed. They further say that standard 3 pin extension cables will work if needed. That leads me to believe that their flow sensor is no different from any other for the pinning (indeed, why would it be - that would make it useless without the AQ and limit it's marketability) and the difference is in that cable (readily available separately).

Thoughts?

On another note, the AQ6 has 2x 2-pin PWM connections. These aren't good for fans or pumps, as those poll at 25 khz and these at 15 khz. They're apparently good for LED light strips, and are rated for 1A each. The problem is that all the LED strips I can find come with either a 3-pin or 4-pin molex connection, and I'm having a devil of a time finding a 2-pin female to 3-pin male adapter.

Edit: Linking to cable here

 

[GTXJackBauer]

I was looking around and it seems it's the AQ6's pinning that's the culprit with the flow sensor. Their flow meter cable for the AQ6 is 3-pin (both ends female, one non-standard) with two of the wires crossed. They further say that standard 3 pin extension cables will work if needed. That leads me to believe that their flow sensor is no different from any other for the pinning (indeed, why would it be - that would make it useless without the AQ and limit it's marketability) and the difference is in that cable (readily available separately).

Thoughts?

On another note, the AQ6 has 2x 2-pin PWM connections. These aren't good for fans or pumps, as those poll at 25 khz and these at 15 khz. They're apparently good for LED light strips, and are rated for 1A each. The problem is that all the LED strips I can find come with either a 3-pin or 4-pin molex connection, and I'm having a devil of a time finding a 2-pin female to 3-pin male adapter.

Edit: Linking to cable here

Are you saying you still need to do a wire mod even with their own flow sensor to the AQ6?

Yeah I mean I love the idea behind the AQ6 but why do they make things so difficult and not be a "standard" and usable with all 3rd party components.

 

[dcolodny]

Ya, it looks like you do need to do a wire mod. Fortunately, the premodded wire is cheap and should (UNTESTED!!!) work with any flow meter.

As much as trying to lock people in to buying their product is a PITA, it's understandable from a business perspective, but it reminds me of the proprietary crap that filled the early 90's. Ah well...not like I have many other options if I want the features, right?

 

[GTXJackBauer]

Ah well...not like I have many other options if I want the features, right?

Keep us posted with pics and let us know on how it goes.