Fish's First WC Build - Log

[Conumdrum]

AIDA 64 Just not what we use for load temps.

 

[GTXJackBauer]

For temps we don't use AIDA 64 as previously stated. It's a great bench for performance tests etc.

 

[willardcw4]

All,

I'm reviving this thread! It has been a long while (almost 3 years) since I wrapped up this build and it's been stable ever since. Thanks for all the input and help along the way.

The reason I'm posting again is because I'm in the mood to make some optimizations. For instance, if you look at my more updated pix in my third post (the loop with the 240mm rad on the bottom), I currently have my fans in a push config at the bottom of the case - meaning I'm pushing in air through the radiator and thus increasing the ambient temp in the case (at least that's seems to be a reasonable conclusion). I mention this in one of my other posts and am wondering if I swap those fans to a pull and put 2x more AP-15s on the top of the rad in push, then I'd have a Push-Pull moving air through the bottom of the case. I would think this would help keep my top rad cooler since intuitively the temperature of the air in the case will be lower (closer to room temp). I will have to prop my case up a bit, but that's easy. Thoughts?

Another thing I've noticed and had to deal with is my reservoir losing water over time. After 6 months or so, enough time elapses such that I need to add water into the loop. I would think this is a closed system, but somehow water is evaporating. Some people tell me this is normal, others say it isn't. I make sure my two ports in my reservoir are sealed, but I'm guessing the o-rings are the weak point. Anyone have ideas?

I have never flushed my loop... I likely deserve flak for that (hmmm, what are the reasons to flush a loop!? ). I've noticed my reservoir water temp has increased a bit over time. It reaches around 41/42C. I need to pull up some GPU/CPU temp monitoring software and see what my temps are looking like, but I'm guessing they are also a few C higher. Thoughts as to why my temps are increasing over time?

The genesis for a lot of me wanting to tweak and optimize (and perhaps get a new reservoir... the monsoon is a pain to fill in this config!) is the GTX 1080. I'm thinking about just swapping my GTX 780 for a GTX 1080 when they release some decent OEM cards with blocks (or I'll use the new EK block). I'd like to ensure my loop is up to snuff.

Just a bit of brainstorming for now. I would appreciate thoughts if you have them. Down the road I might want to scrap everything and get new mobo/cpu/RAM/case and play with building a new loop, but that's not going to be this year.

Thanks!

 

[Conumdrum]

Hehe, I didn't do my loop for two years. Don't feel bad. I got lucky. Just do it.

http://www.overclockers.com/forums/...-Hmm-I-guess-I-need-to-tell-you-a-dark-secret

And it's time to replace stuff sooner or later. Good news Wattage keeps dropping, GPU/CPU keeps getting better!

 

[willardcw4]

Hehe, I didn't do my loop for two years. Don't feel bad. I got lucky. Just do it.

Thanks for the vote of confidence I'll disassemble it all soon and give my setup it's first cleaning. Will do a remount of the CPU as well with possibly some new TIM based on some of the newer tests I've seen.

Any thoughts on the fan setup? I should have explained what my dilemma is a bit more clearly. Currently, my top rad is an exhaust, and my bottom rad is an intake. All other fans in the case (front, rear, and side panel) are intakes.

Would making my bottom rad an exhaust (matching my top rad) help at all with temps? I see lots of people saying all rads should be exhausts, others saying they should be intakes with the rest of the case fans as exhaust... I haven't found anything definitive, but I might have missed it.

Thoughts?

 

[sporktar]

Thanks for the vote of confidence I'll disassemble it all soon and give my setup it's first cleaning. Will do a remount of the CPU as well with possibly some new TIM based on some of the newer tests I've seen.

Any thoughts on the fan setup? I should have explained what my dilemma is a bit more clearly. Currently, my top rad is an exhaust, and my bottom rad is an intake. All other fans in the case (front, rear, and side panel) are intakes.

Would making my bottom rad an exhaust (matching my top rad) help at all with temps? I see lots of people saying all rads should be exhausts, others saying they should be intakes with the rest of the case fans as exhaust... I haven't found anything definitive, but I might have missed it.

Thoughts?

It would probably be a good idea to drain and refill your loop, but you likely didn't do any damage over 3 years unless you had any sort of growth/corrosion. If you feel up to it, it may be a good idea to break down the loop to inspect/clean your waterblocks (especially since you stated your temps have risen over the last 3 years), but if you don't bother your system will still run perfectly fine. I feel your pain filling and draining that monsoon res, i recently pulled mine from my system because it was so hard to drain and fill.

As for your radiator fan orientation, go ahead and flip your fans, run some experiments and tell us what you find! I think case airflow is more important than the direction your radiator is dumping heat. If you have both of your radiators pushing air out of your case, plus exhaust in the rear you will only have a single intake fan in the front. This will likely result in a lot of negative pressure in your case, which may slow the airflow through your radiators. It also may introduce more dust into your system, resulting in more maintenance. As for adding 2 fans for push pull, the difference will be very small. Think around the range of 1c, MAYBE 2c.

 

[GTXJackBauer]

All depends. In most cases, its front + bottom intakes and top + rear as exhaust. In my case, I have a massive case with all filtered points except the rear. I have all intakes and rear as exhaust. No complaints over here. In your case, you should do front + bottom as intake and have top + rear as exhaust. Just make sure the exhaust points don't have filters in them otherwise you're adding way too much resistance for the rad fans and you'll just have fairly warm air re-enter in the circulation.

As for adding 2 fans for push pull, the difference will be very small. Think around the range of 1c, MAYBE 2c.

Actually, the studies and tests I've read, its more than 2c. In some cases 5c, if not more. Most of our radiators aren't being fully utilized believe it or not. The sweet spots I've seen is around 2200 for low FPI rads. Meaning a 120.3/320mm rad @ 2200 RPM, I believe it was Martin's tests, has show it cooling 300w of heat dissipation. This is why I recommend a little extra rad, all depending if the end user wants the best delta temps possible and if the case permits.

 

[willardcw4]

It would probably be a good idea to drain and refill your loop, but you likely didn't do any damage over 3 years unless you had any sort of growth/corrosion. If you feel up to it, it may be a good idea to break down the loop to inspect/clean your waterblocks (especially since you stated your temps have risen over the last 3 years), but if you don't bother your system will still run perfectly fine. I feel your pain filling and draining that monsoon res, i recently pulled mine from my system because it was so hard to drain and fill.

Sporktar - what is the reservoir that I saw in your build you replaced the Monsoon with?? I don't recognize it (looks similar to the XSPC one).

All depends. In most cases, its front + bottom intakes and top + rear as exhaust. In my case, I have a massive case with all filtered points except the rear. I have all intakes and rear as exhaust. No complaints over here. In your case, you should do front + bottom as intake and have top + rear as exhaust. Just make sure the exhaust points don't have filters in them otherwise you're adding way too much resistance for the rad fans and you'll just have fairly warm air re-enter in the circulation.

Jack - I would think I'd want both of my rads in the same config in my case. So that would be bottom & top as either intake or exhaust. Is that not decent logic? Currently, my ONLY exhaust is my top. Rear/front/side/bottom all intakes. My intakes have filters, exhaust does not So what you're suggesting is just turn my rear fan from an intake to an exhaust, and leave the rest as is. I'll still put two additional fans on my thick 240mm rad on the bottom to make it push-pull, regardless of which direction I have the air flowing.

 

[sporktar]

Actually, the studies and tests I've read, its more than 2c. In some cases 5c, if not more. Most of our radiators aren't being fully utilized believe it or not. The sweet spots I've seen is around 2200 for low FPI rads. Meaning a 120.3/320mm rad @ 2200 RPM, I believe it was Martin's tests, has show it cooling 300w of heat dissipation. This is why I recommend a little extra rad, all depending if the end user wants the best delta temps possible and if the case permits.

Very interesting, maybe i'll have to experiment with that, my rad is fairly low fpi, but i usually push for sub 1k RPM.

Sporktar - what is the reservoir that I saw in your build you replaced the Monsoon with?? I don't recognize it (looks similar to the XSPC one).

Monsoon MMRS. Very customizable, and fairly affordable compared to a lot of other options on the market.

 

[willardcw4]

Well... I put the fans on, cleaned everything out, etc etc... long story short I somehow bent some of my CPU socket pins on my motherboard. I tried realigning them with some tweezers but no joy. Sigh. I'll need a new mobo but will likely just wait to upgrade the entire build since it would require pulling everything apart to replace just the mobo (which is 3 yrs old).

I'll likely get a bigger case to make life easier on the installs and rad management. I really like the idea of bench cases but there don't seem to be many out there. Corsair 900D seems to be pretty sweet. I really also like the idea of bench builds... the Primochill Praxis Wet Bench looks awesome, but are bench and box setups inferior to tower configs due to air flow?

Next time I try this again I'm probably going to go with angled connectors that are a bit easier to work with compared to the xpsc compression fittings I've been using. I'm always impressed by people's builds when they use those, so clean! Just have to figure out exactly what I need beforehand to make it all work.

 

[Conumdrum]

I had a test bench. Was great. You actually need less fans.

I don't think you can get the Banchetto bench anymore, I really liked it.

http://www.overclockers.com/forums/...-and-update-Finally!?highlight=annual rebuild

 

[willardcw4]

I had a test bench. Was great. You actually need less fans.

That's what I think as well - I made a post in the case forum here (http://www.overclockers.com/forums/...s-Cube-vs-Tower-Watercooling-Case-Performance) and had a small discussion about bench vs tower vs cube. I'm fairly confident I'm going to use a bench chassis for my next build and just use a radiator stand of some sort. I'm just not sure what config will be best/easiest to purchase and mod. I will want the radiator stand/chassis to be able to support 2 x 360mm rads with ease. Anywho, I'll look into the Banchetto and start researching more when I upgrade my entire build.

While I've been getting my mobo RMA'd, I decided to update my current build to make life easier with liquid cooling. I am still going to use my NZXT Phantom, but I'm going to route tubing through the top of the case and outside to an Monsoon MMRS reservoir I'm going to assemble and bolt onto the side panel. This will make draining and filling muchhhhh easier. I'm also going to try out Mayhems X1 Coolant instead of just distilled and PT Nuke. Will be interesting to monitor temps and build-up over time.

In addition to the 2 x fans I added to my bottom rad, I'm going to add 3 x AP-15's to my top rad since I'm going to leave the top cover of my tower case off. Both rads will be in push/pull. As far as the MMRS, I went big - a 100mm tube AND a 150mm tube joined with a coupler so I can wire my temp sensor and silver bullet plug. I'm going to use QD4's for the inlet/outlet of the res to make managment a bit easier. I also purchased some Monsoon Compression Fittings - the XSPC ones are just a pain... I've had good luck with the monsoon tool and they're 90 degree fittings.

I'll post pics of both my progress I made when I got halted by injuring my mobo and also pics of the new update. One thing I noticed when I removed my CPU block when I first disassembled my system is that my TIM application turned into crap after I mounted the block. I did some additional remounts and have a much better handle on mounting the raystorm without smearing the TIM all over the CPU. I expect that alone hurt my temps a bit.

 

[willardcw4]

So, here are some updates:

I have pics of what my CPU and Raystorm block looked like when I pulled them apart when I first performed my disassembly.



That doesn't look like a good TIM application. Looking back at my build pics for the 'updated' loop, I'm not surprised. What DID suprise me is to finding a large amount of plastic from the Raystorm block stuck in the grooving of the copper plating.



Anyway, I cleaned up the block and swapped out the old raystorm for a spare I had (new) sitting around. Next time I buy a block I'm going for all copper most likely. I did some serious flusing with lots of distilled water and the SYSPREP that came with my Primochill tubing. I then put at least 2 Gallons of additional distilled water through the loop after the SYSPREP cleaning.



My rebuilt loop includes a Monsoon MMRS which I mounted externally to the case. Not as ergonomic as far as tower form factor, but infinitely easier to maintain the loop. I also decided to go with Mayhem's X1 Coolant for my fluid. The top and bottom rads are now both Push/Pulls (Exhaust); the front, rear, and side panel are all intakes. I also used the Koolance QD4's with 3/8" threads (and a 3/8 to 1/4" adapter) to use for my reservoir ---- making life easy!!!! I put a couple of 2x3's beneath my case to allow some room for the bottom 240mm Push/Pull Exhaust to get rid of air. Here are a couple pics of the finished product.





That's it for now! Also, I know 2 of the pics are rotated 90 degrees... I spent 15 minutes trying to fix that and gave up. Probably me not knowing how to properly attach stuff onto this forum thread. When I upgrade my PC (mobo/cpu/ram) I'll likely go for a bench chassis with some sort of radiator stand (either integrated or external). I'm not sure yet... no solution out there has really 'wowd!' me yet.

One of the things that is a bummer is I reset my CMOS when I was troubleshooting my motherboard when I found out the CPU pins were bent... so I lost my memory timings and CPU clocking. I'm leaving the CPU stock for now and just picked an XMP profile for my memory. Good enough for all the games I play. I did a furmark & prim95 (simultaneous) benchmark and after about 25-30 minutes my temps were: ambient 27C, max cpu load (core 1) 73C, GPU 39C, fluid in res temp 33C. A tad bit better than what I was getting previously, but my CPU isn't overclocked anymore. Or maybe the push/pull config is giving me a bit of a bump. I'm sure a clean CPU block can't hurt!

Thanks for the help so far ya'll.

 

[GTXJackBauer]

Glad you found the blockage. Looks to me just stuff that gets loose from manufacturing. That's why we preach to always double check and clean new gear before installation.

That still seems a bit high for CPU load temps with the amount of rad you have in there with everything at stock for CPU and GPU only loop.

I also noticed the bottom GT fans are set exhaust. I would reverse that and have the bottom as intake and the top as exhaust.

 

[willardcw4]

That still seems a bit high for CPU load temps with the amount of rad you have in there with everything at stock. I also noticed the bottom GT fans are set exhaust. I would reverse that and have the bottom as intake and the top as exhaust.

I originally had the bottom rad as an intake and had higher temps =\ For now I'll leave both rads as exhausts and just monitor the temps as the TIM settles. We shall see!