"fluid xp+" ... I can't find info I want

[bob4933]

So, I can't find much information about this stuff.

I bought 9 bottles of it (3 purple, 3 neon green, 3 alien green) as it is ridiculously cheap right now at performance-pc's, and I was ordering my rads anyway.


Literally, the only "reviews" I see are people crying about it being "over priced". I have yet to find someone that has actually USED it, nor have I found any objective analysis of it. I can't imagine it being horrible, and I have enough radiator that "extreme performance" isn't required. What I AM interested in, is a pre-mixed, UV reactive coolant that has these features I want. Searching on here, I can't find anything either. Has no one used this stuff? haha (probably why its 2.99$ a bottle!)


scratch that, found THIS
http://www.overclockers.com/forums/...shouldn-t-use-Fluid-XP-or-Fluid-XP-(Pictures)

But again, its polarized ,and likely the OP had bacteria growth; not necessarily an issue with the fluid itself.

 

[GTXJackBauer]

Color coolant stains. Good quality UV coolant might not as much as your standard ones. Clear premixed and quality colored tubing is the way to go with LEDs to give you more color for the build.

There's lots of examples out there of the mishaps of using colored fluid. Most water coolers don't do things by the book like most of us do. They just put things together and maybe throw it all out when SHTF.

 

[EarthDog]

Use colored tubing...you know this.

The thread you linked, even if the products didn't (what don't you want it to do?) stain (op said it did) but brought OUT the bacterial growth immediately after. Is it something you really want to try? You seek like the tinkering type, so...that answer may be yes anyway!

Sub'd.

 

[bob4933]

Im always dubious to these things. "Those fittings wont work" for example.... Why not? lol

As far as "colored coolant stains". Stains what? The tubing? Thats impossible for ether based polyurethane. Stains the parts inside that you cant see anyone? Wheres the issue? I have seen SO MANY polar arguments over coolant vs colored tubing. I have seen people add water soluable stains to water, which can come out of solution under turbulent conditions (hence why the blocks get gummed up); I get that bit. People run colored coolant with no issues all the time though; so something isn't all there with builds that people have issues with. For instance, jayztwocents uses mayhem coolant in his VERY expensive build, for long long periods of time with no issues at all. Im wondering if the tubing choice is the issue, not necessarily the coolant, or some other issue. Singularity Computers runs colored coolant in his absurdly expensive builds with no issues as well. Why are these guys able to "Get away with it" but others dont? For example, PVC tubing (an EXTREMELY common type of tubing) is EXTREMELY reactive to some chemicals I've seen people put in their loops (benzene containing biocides for instance).

ED -> water will do the exact same thing. The guy didn't add any biocide to his mix, and given the others adamant replies, I think its safe to assume his whole loop was jacked up anyway and not necessarily a product of the coolant. Besides, again, ether based polyurethane is chemically resistant to biological attack and I will still add some PT Nuke no matter what I use. I will obviously be TRYING the stuff out, but I haven't seen any technical information on it. Also, keep in mind that post is TEN YEARS OLD, and the coolants I picked up are different.

So, I guess I should break this down to a more fundamental question. Why are some people able to run colored coolant for years with absolutely no issues, but others have problems right away?

 

[EarthDog]

As far as we see, it depends on the liquid product. Stained tubing is one issue.. and stained/clogged blocks another. There are links all over place showing what some products can do. Why, specifically it happens... no clue.

As far as those systems, if someone is using these products, we warn to check and flush more frequently. Perhaps they are doing so? I mean show systems are just that... for show. It doesn't matter how it performs. I'd imagine with some products they would have to break it down and replumb for the best look.

EDIT: The more I think about it, the more I think I used it back in the day... I dont recall it being a problem, more plasticizers for the primo chill tubing than anything, but it was colored so some dye leached into it and stuck. I'd have to check a different website, and see if that was the stuff of not. In the end, I stuck with Primochill LRT tubing, water, and a biocide.

 

[GTXJackBauer]

"Those fittings won't work" because I thought you had the fittings screwed all the way in when they were not which tricked me into thinking you had no seal.

When it comes to color fluids, it's a few things.

Plasticizer was the issue for many years before Primo came out with a killer product that put a end to all of that.

UV colors I've seen play good and bad.

The thicker more vibrant ones are going to stain regardless if you haven't up kept with complete cleaning of the insides. Most don't care and don't maintain their systems. They will stick with their colors for years till the loop breaks down. While this is a niche market were in, there's enough data to show that yes, sometimes the fluid breaks down the tubing or vise versa to create clogging or staining. I'd say 100% of the time of most issues known and unknown in ones system is staining. It's going to happen regardless they care for it or not.

As for the online reviewers who show us some amazing rigs, they're basically show rigs as well as their personal rigs. Those guys go through different components like a women's shoe closet. They get lots of gear from companies to show case.

Again, if you look deep enough, you will find data for years on this and the gruesome images. If you don't care about stains, have at it. I refuse to deal with it nor do I wanna stain my premium priced gear. I want my stuff to last and keep it clean as new as best as I can.

 

[bob4933]

This sytem is going to run to the death of it to be honest. By the time Im ready for another PC, I'll be replacing the entire platform, probably z270 (or whatever nomenclature by then lol).

@GTX, I am in no way discounting your experience(s). I honestly don't know, but I do have a difficult time just accepting carte blanche statements based on anecdotal evidence alone. There MUST be some reason why some people are ok, and some are not. I'll guinea pig it, the worst that will happen is I just go back to air cooling. The data is incomplete, as it doesn't take into account what types of tubing, materials, and chemicals were added (and in what amounts). For instance, ethylene glycol is a HIGHLY recommended additive (generally), but in the concentrations that its recommended (5-10%) it does diddly squat. Also, ethlyene glycol rapidly decomposes with elevations in temperature, causing an acidic environment which deteriorates both tubing AND copper. Some biocides use benzene, which will destroy most over the counter tubing.

For instance, this


is NOT caused by dye coming out of solution. I am firmly confident that is SOME OTHER material that the dye simply stained.


Theres a very specific reason Im using the tubing I am. Its an ether based polyurethane. It is naturally resistant to biological attack, requiring no biocide/kill coils (I will still run pt nuke for the rest of the components of course), it is immune to most chemical attack, and anything put in my loop will have no reaction to it.


Im in no rush, I'll do some qualitative testing.

 

[bob4933]

Looking at MSDS of popular dyed coolants, they are all pretty much the same

1) ethylene glycol 10%
2) distilled/pure water 89%
3) pigment 1%



Since glycerol is basically food for bacteria, it would make sense the bacterium are feeding on the tinted liquid, not that the liquid itself is inherently the issue.


Fluid XP+ is the only one thats really "different"

Its

1) deionized water 40%
2) propelyne glycol 40%
3) "proprietary additives" <20%



So, the understanding is that <1% of pigment is causing gunks of that nature? Thats not whats going on. Staining of materials is one thing, and I can accept that. This detrimental build up is another issue completely.

 

[Conumdrum]

I ran distilled, PN-Nuke, killcoils for many many many months chronicled in the stickies. I believe running a modern (2015+) liquid that is clear and prevents corrosion is the best bet. That is MY new standard to follow here.

Gunk and any other discussion is due to fools not following my standard. Which is new, see above.

Any dye, colored water is just silly talk. Like the Monty Python silly walk sketch. Watch it. Be the one who walks like John Clease. I dare you.

- - - Updated - - -

Build a rid with the dye you like. Then reply back. In 6 months. Done....

- - - Updated - - -

Build the rig with your dye. Report back in 1, 3, 6, 12 months. Give us your data, there ain't enuff.

 

[bob4933]

I ran distilled, PN-Nuke, killcoils for many many many months chronicled in the stickies. I believe running a modern (2015+) liquid that is clear and prevents corrosion is the best bet. That is MY new standard to follow here.

Gunk and any other discussion is due to fools not following my standard. Which is new, see above.

Any dye, colored water is just silly talk. Like the Monty Python silly walk sketch. Watch it. Be the one who walks like John Clease. I dare you.

- - - Updated - - -

Build a rid with the dye you like. Then reply back. In 6 months. Done....

- - - Updated - - -

Build the rig with your dye. Report back in 1, 3, 6, 12 months. Give us your data, there ain't enuff.

Yet again, relying on anecdotal evidence is not enough.

 

[EarthDog]

Frankly, I am not concerned if the chicken came first or the egg. I just know, from these anecdotes you blow off, to stay away from most dyed products if I want to be sure not to stain and/or clog my loop. It really is that simple to me.

 

[bob4933]

*sigh. Please dont take my polite inquiries as naivety. Most people doing water cooling loops don't have a decade of experience working with water chemistry in flowing systems either.


So lets start with discussing some "anecdotal things" that people LOVE to suggest.

1) "Add some anti-freeze to kill bacteria"
coupled quickly with
2) "Use 5-10% antifreeze to kill bacteria"

Well. Ever wonder how antifreeze kills bacteria/algae? It doesnt. What it does do is create an incredibly low osmotic pressure that causes the cell walls to literally burst in high concentrations (closer to 100%, the better for this property). So, it's not some active biocide, its just a harsh environment. Yet, I see recommendations ALL THE TIME, from people with "Experience" -> "add 5-10% antifreeze to kill bacteria". Ironically, at those low concentrations, the bacteria will use the glycol as a food source lol. The term you guys would like to see is "biofouling". This is a technical term, and used in fluid transfer systems.


3) "don't mix metals"
followed with
4) "dont use nickel and copper"
followed with
5) "use silver kill coils".

Without boring the absolute crap out of anyone, I will simply say, nickel + copper in a loop are just fine. In fact, silver and nickel have the same reactivity to copper. Aluminum is almost 10 times more reactive. Look up an anodic index

6) "dont use those fittings"
followed by
7) "oh those work pretty I guess"

Yeah, Im a little annoyed with some of the comments, but the intention was well meaning, so I let it slide. But you MUST use the over priced fittings from the computer stores! Those are the ONLY ONES that work, right?


And I'll end it with number 8, because I have to go to work.

People confuse "experience" with "being an expert". "Guess and check" all you want, if you're getting "gunk" in your loop, its because of some chemical or biological problem, not because you have dye in your loop. Its foolish to think that its "just the dye", when its FAR more likely something else got screwed up. Cynicism aside, I can not, and will not accept "this is how it is, because I said so", without anything more to lean on than "i dunno, its just how I've done it" as your "data".

 

[DaveB]

This is why I put water cooling behind me years ago. Kinda expensive and too much like Medieval Alchemy and Sorcery!!! :

Just let the fresh clean air cool everything. I'm outta here!

 

[BugFreak]

This is why I put water cooling behind me years ago. Kinda expensive and too much like Medieval Alchemy and Sorcery!!! :

Just let the fresh clean air cool everything. I'm outta here!

The sad part is that it really isn't complicated. People just make it that way by getting all complicated and wasting money where it isn't needed.

To the OP. I think people have given their answers and you basically want to argue with them. Unless I'm mistaken Fluid XP is an old product originally sold by a now closed water cooling company. Unfortunately I can't remember their name though. (Maybe someone can help me with it. They were Danger Den's primary competitor other than Swiftech way back when.) Based on shelf life alone I wouldn't use the product because it has been sitting on a shelf for who-knows-how-long which means the time you will get out of it has been decreased. The bottom line is that pre-mix products have and will breakdown. Dyes have and will breakdown clogging up the small spaces in your radiators and waterblocks. There are endless pictures of this on this forum and the internet. If you choose not to believe please build the rig and as said above let us know your results so we can add you to the data list for the next person we have this debate with.

 

[GTXJackBauer]

Bob, with all do respect, you sound like you're trying to reinvent the wheel here and you're taking things out of context that was said before. Not everyone will have the same expertise as another. We've talked to many experts in the field and outside the field for years around here. It's great to talk about these things from time to time to grease up the gears again as well as inform those misinformed.

Bob, not everyone wants the break down to the specifics on WHY things happen. We tell them just don't use dyes and enjoy your PC. If they want to get into more specifics, that's fine but you're sitting here tryna give us lessons on things we already know because we didn't pull out the chemistry books out. Sorry, it won't appease to the masses the way you would want it done which will lesson this already niche market which has been picking up steam the last few years. There are those that love talking about all of these things but majority won't.

Let's try and be less dramatic and become open minded on all fronts here.

 

[bob4933]

Bob, with all do respect, you sound like you're trying to reinvent the wheel here and you're taking things out of context that was said before. Not everyone will have the same expertise as another. We've talked to many experts in the field and outside the field for years around here. It's great to talk about these things from time to time to grease up the gears again as well as inform those misinformed.

Bob, not everyone wants the break down to the specifics on WHY things happen. We tell them just don't use dyes and enjoy your PC. If they want to get into more specifics, that's fine but you're sitting here tryna give us lessons on things we already know because we didn't pull out the chemistry books out. Sorry, it won't appease to the masses the way you would want it done which will lesson this already niche market which has been picking up steam the last few years. There are those that love talking about all of these things but majority won't.

Let's try and be less dramatic and become open minded on all fronts here.

Heres my thing...

Why, specifically it happens... no clue.

I ran distilled, PN-Nuke, killcoils for many many many months chronicled in the stickies. I believe running a modern (2015+) liquid that is clear and prevents corrosion is the best bet. That is MY new standard to follow here.

Gunk and any other discussion is due to fools not following my standard. Which is new, see above.

Any dye, colored water is just silly talk. Like the Monty Python silly walk sketch. Watch it. Be the one who walks like John Clease. I dare you.
.

To the OP. I think people have given their answers and you basically want to argue with them.

Those are not answers.

Thats ALL Im saying. Thats not be "dramatic". Theres so much "old wisdom" around water cooling that makes me serious facepalm. Pumps at the highest point of the system, reservoirs BELOW the pump, adding small concentrations of chemicals that have the COMPLETE OPPOSITE effect, running reactive tubing, not starting with clean hardware to begin with, etc...


Answer me this. How many times have you seen it recommended to "add some antifreeze (glycerol) to kill bacteria"?


It takes almost no time at all to gunk up a water block. Mine is gunked up after running my leak test, and I forgot to clean it. No dye, no stains, no chemicals, just some bottled water.

There are an ungodly amount of variables, and everyone focuses on the water soluable pigment as the culprit? Its absurd lol. The only thing the stain/dye is doing is coloring the gunk, whether its biological or plasticizer lol. Im not being "close minded". If anything, Im being obstinately the opposite. As for staining hardware, who cares? Unless you're running clear acrylic and the acrylic stains (I know it will, but how often are people changing colors anyway?), what is the big deal? If youre against STAINING, and that is the argument, I can accept that. What I don't accept is "if you use colored liquid you will have problems with clogging".

- - - Updated - - -

Dyes have and will breakdown

How?

The sad part is that it really isn't complicated. People just make it that way by getting all complicated and wasting money where it isn't needed.

To the OP. I think people have given their answers and you basically want to argue with them. Unless I'm mistaken Fluid XP is an old product originally sold by a now closed water cooling company. Unfortunately I can't remember their name though. (Maybe someone can help me with it. They were Danger Den's primary competitor other than Swiftech way back when.) Based on shelf life alone I wouldn't use the product because it has been sitting on a shelf for who-knows-how-long which means the time you will get out of it has been decreased. The bottom line is that pre-mix products have and will breakdown. Dyes have and will breakdown

Fluid xp is still in business...

That said, I will obviously have a gander at the manufacturer date. That is a fair thing to bring up, and given the absurd discount I purchased it for, its very possible it might not be ok. I'll check it out.

 

[DaveB]

The sad part is that it really isn't complicated. People just make it that way by getting all complicated and wasting money where it isn't needed.

I've just found it to my totally unnecessary for me. All I need for my moderate OC endeavors is a case with decent airflow and a $25 Hyper 212 (or two for my new dual E5-2670 rig). The more cost effective Closed Loop AIO Water Coolers tend to be noisier and no more effective than a decent tower HS/Fan. And none the recent GPUs I've used, GTX 980 Ti, R9 Fury, GTX 1060 and GTX 1070, needed additional cooling and none were noisy.

 

[Silver_Pharaoh]

I used Feser UV Blue dye a while ago. I also used PEX tubing to eliminate the possibility of plasticizer. Doing this allowed us to see if the dye is truly to blame for gunking up blocks.

Guess what, it didn't gunk up anything. The colour faded very quick, over the course of 3 weeks or so I ended up adding 50 drops over the course of like 4 months.
The rad seems to have collected the pigment and the water came out a light blueish colour during the post teardown rad dance.

I agree 100% that any gunk found in a CPU block or whatever that is the same colour as the dye is just plasticizer or something that was stained by the dye. NOT the dye itself.


I have not used dyes since that experiment about a year ago just because I don't want any staining . I have picked up some Mayhems X1 clear coolant additive but I haven't added it yet since I'll be tearing down and reusing the loop for my Intel build.