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Fortron w/ 120mm fan and Lite-On FS-020

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Since87

Member
Joined
Jul 30, 2002
Location
Indiana
I've got a new Lite-On FS-020 case. (Interior shot below.)

11-128-111-01.JPG

I like the idea of using one of the Fortron supplies that has a 120mm fan, but as you can see from the picture, unless the case is modified, the fan intake will be blocked by sheet metal.

I could remove the sheetmetal in the way, but then I lose the mounting point for the drive cage there. I don't really want to lose that drive cage.

Anyone made a Fortron w/ 120mm fit, or have any creative suggestions?
 

larva

Inactive Moderator
Joined
Jul 12, 2002
If there is any clearence above the power supply, flip it up-side down. You may have to trim the opening in the back of the case a bit and you will have to drill a hole or two, but it isn't hard to do at all. Anybody who has used a Raidmax aluminum case (coke can?) knows this, as they put the power supply mount up-side down.

If there isn't clearence above the supply I don't see any option but to drill/cut to provide the necessary airflow to the fan. I'm starting to lust after that case myself, as two 120mm fans in the back like that is the truth.

O, btw, the 350 w/120mm fan is (was) available only from XPDirect. It is my understanding that they are out and it will be a couple of months before they get more. You might consider the 530 fortron newegg has, it will not require modifiction to your case as well. My understanding is it is also extremely quiet when kept cool, and your case should have no difficulty allowing that.
 

dustybyrd

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 31, 2003
Location
San Francisco, CA
yeah, i agree with larva, until xpdirect (or someone) has those 350watt 120mm fortron's for sale again then, unless you are on a tight budget, the best option for now might be to get the $70 530 watt fortron at newegg...because that is only $20 more than the 350 watt fortron with the 120mm fan...

i have it for my dual system below...and it must be requiring comparable amounts of power to a 3+ghz p4...and it is very quiet because it is never pushed hard enough to speed up the power supply fans (not that i haven't valiantly tried---with recording CD's, recording and watching TV, and photoshop use all at the same time)....

of course if money is tight...you can always get the 350watt fortron 80mm fan version from newegg and then swap out the fan for a panaflo like larva did(or not) for $32...
 

larrymoencurly

Member
Joined
Jul 14, 2002
I found that "Noise Killer" doesn't always mean that the fan speed varies with temperature because sometimes Fortron/Sparkle uses "Noise Killer" to simply refer to a quiet fan that may always run at high speed (and noisily). This was the case with all the 350W Sparkles at my local Fry's. But if the power supply itself has a sticker on it that says "Noise Killer," then it varies the speed with temperature.
 
OP
S

Since87

Member
Joined
Jul 30, 2002
Location
Indiana
Thanks for the input.

There's not adequate space above the supply to turn the supply around and get decent air intake. I could put a duct in the top there, but that would almost guarantee I'd dump a Mountain Dew in it.

I've been leaning towards the Fortron FSP400-PFN as an alternate choice. I've only got a 10 Amp breaker on the wall outlet my system uses, and PFC will keep the peak current draw of the PSU down. (I've got other significant power loads on the same circuit.) It's also $10 less at Newegg than the 530W Fortron. Have you guys heard anything about this particular supply?
 

larva

Inactive Moderator
Joined
Jul 12, 2002
It's a very good supply also, although to be honest I can't see a difference between it and the Fortron 350s in practice. The 3.3 and 5V outputs on the 400W model are a little stronger, but the 12V is the same. I like the value of the 350W model tremendously, but in my opinion the 400W model costs more than it should. The 400 is definitely a very good supply, but I'm not sure it offers the value of the 350 and 530W models.

With any of the 80mm fan equipped models you may end up wanting to swap the fan for a quieter model. A 24cfm fan does fine, even though my 350 came fitted with a 44cfm NMB. There are no warranty stickers to break when replacing the fan with one of your liking.
 
OP
S

Since87

Member
Joined
Jul 30, 2002
Location
Indiana
Ok, I'm convinced. The 350 is too good a value to pass up.

I do want a quiet system. Should I just assume that I should buy a fan to replace the one in the supply? Suggestions from fans available at Newegg?
 

larva

Inactive Moderator
Joined
Jul 12, 2002
I don't know if the $32 Fortron that newegg sells is a variable speed unit or not. It appears to be, of course you can try it out first and see if you think a fan swap is in order.

Newegg is a lousy place to buy fans. They don't really have a single fan that I would consider optimal for this particular application. Here is the type of thing I would recommend:

http://xoxide.com/nmbsil80fan.html

Any quality 24-28cfm would be fine, NMB is indeed quality.
 
OP
S

Since87

Member
Joined
Jul 30, 2002
Location
Indiana
I'm thinking that if the fan is too loud at load, I may install something like this:

v-limit.gif


This circuit wouldn't cost much and would limit the fan voltage to about 10.4V if the PSU tried to drive it higher. The fan would get very close to it's normal voltage when the PSU was cool.

Warning: Don't assume this circuit will work. This is just my best guess, based on a lot of assumptions of how the PSU controls the fan speed. If others are interested in doing something like this, I'll figure out how to do it right and post it.

On another topic. Does anyone know of a convenient ATX supply adapter/tester that allows you to pull significant current out of a PSU. (I'm thinking something that the ATX connector plugs into, with screw terminals for hooking other things up.)

I've seen this:

17-163-011-01.JPG

I can make use of this, but was looking for something more convenient.
 
OP
S

Since87

Member
Joined
Jul 30, 2002
Location
Indiana
I got the case at Newegg. It was $82 with free shipping a few weeks ago, but I think it has gone up since then.
 

nikhsub1

Unoriginal Macho Moderator
Joined
Oct 12, 2001
Location
Los Angeles
Hehe, you guys have finally seen the light! There is just no better case, period! I have been pimpin' my case for the better part of 2 years, man it takes you guys a LONG time. Bummer, the fan I put in my PSU I can't find... it is a 33CFM Sunon SLEEVE bearing fan at like 26dBa. Used to be a www.sidewindercomputers.com but it seems they are out of them.
 

larva

Inactive Moderator
Joined
Jul 12, 2002
nikhsub1 said:
Hehe, you guys have finally seen the light! There is just no better case, period! I have been pimpin' my case for the better part of 2 years, man it takes you guys a LONG time. Bummer, the fan I put in my PSU I can't find... it is a 33CFM Sunon SLEEVE bearing fan at like 26dBa. Used to be a www.sidewindercomputers.com but it seems they are out of them.

It's a well known fact that sleeve bearing fans are quieter than ball bearing units. But the manufacturers have long marketed the ball bearing as a sign of a superior product. At this point so many people have accepted this bit of hype as gospel that it is hard to give away a sleeve bearing fan.

Strangely enough, if you call the sleeve bearing a "hydro wave" or whatever Panasonic calls it it suddenly becomes acceptable to the populace. Just as they did in engines, sleeve bearing will replace ball bearings for the majority of applications. As time goes on the precise tolerances required for a quality sleeve bearing as well as the lubrication difficulties become less of a challenge, and the other (generally superior) qualities of sleeve bearings dictate their adoption.

I also find Sunon sleeve bearing fans to be excellent. Such a unit with the proper rotational speed for the noise constraints of your application provides a solution that is hard to match. And although common perception is that sleeve bearings are less durable, the truth is in the presence of airborne dirt any fan bearing will fail in short order, and the sleeve will experience less growth in noise output before it does. A filtered case is the true answer to fan life, and as much as I agree with the fan layout in the FS-020 I'd have to tape over the side panel perforations to force the case to draw through my filter.
 

Stedeman

The Half Asleep Member
Joined
Aug 29, 2002
Location
Lewiston Maine
Hold up a bit there Larva
Both BB and sleeve have there good and bad points
Up side for the BB designee is it has less mechanical resistance (much less surface area that’s in contact) than the sleeve and that means lower friction and less heat on wearable parts that’s why BB have longer life expectancies than sleeves
The down side not all BB fans are built the same some have only 1 set of BB and they are less stable causing more fan wobble witch in return = more noise

The up side for sleeves is that they are a simpler designee and cheaper to make witch means you typically pay less for them they also for the most part produce less noise
the down side the typically wear down twice as fast as a comparable BB fan

most fans can have there lives extended by properly taking care of them clean the blades off on a regular basis and if you can oil them do so BUT don't over oil them this can cause more harm than good

here is a link to YS Tech http://www.ystech.com.tw/FanHtml/FD1238.htm if you scroll down a bit you will see a side by side of different models you can compare them and see the life of a BB is about 2X that of a sleeve and that sleeves typically use more energy (current) to get the same out put
 
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larva

Inactive Moderator
Joined
Jul 12, 2002
That is YS Tech for you. The are not the best fan manufacturer, by a long shot. The descrepency you point out in their ratings is not inherent in a sleeve bearing design, but rather in a poor sleeve bearing design.

If you look at Pabst's specifications, their sleeve and ball bearing products in common PC fan sizes carry the same 80,000 hour MTBF rating.

http://www.papst.de/pdf_dat_e/KAT_01GB.PDF

There is a good whitepaper on Nidec's site that details the life characteristic of their sleeve bearing technology. It points out one significant durability aspect in which sleeve bearings are superior, that being shock resistance. Shock will dent the races of a ball bearing, creating fissures in the race surface that increase noise output and lead to failiure. As the fans we use are generally presented to us at the end of a succession of shippers, UPS and Fed-EX among them, shock resistance is a key factor.

http://www.nidec.com/nbr/nbr_life.pdf

Lubrication is a key issue for fan life. As sleeve bearing materials that are impregnated with lubricant have become common, many times a sleeve bearing design can retain its lubricant in situations that may boil a ball bearing dry.

In the end though, ratings always need to be viewed with a grain of salt, especially MTBF ones. If you look at the MTBF ratings for hard drives, you would tend to think failures would be very rare. This isn't the case. I worked in a high-volume (1500/year) PC shop for five years, selected components, saw their real-world performance, and was responsible for the consequences of failures. During that time fans, power supplies, and hard drives were the chief sources of failures. The very term MTBF denotes failure, and in my experience the realized life of DC fans is not significantly different between the best sleeve bearing units and ball bearing ones.
 
OP
S

Since87

Member
Joined
Jul 30, 2002
Location
Indiana
So, does anyone know of an ATX to screw terminal adapter, to enable convenient hookup of a PSU to something other than a PC?