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FRONTPAGE G.SKILL Updates Trident Z Neo DDR4 Specs For Ryzen 5000 Series
- Thread starter Overclockers.com
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Are the Neo DDR4-4000 CL16-19-19-39 32GB (16GBx2) available anywhere? I see there is F4-4000C16D-32GTZR but its only QVL'ed for Intel Z490. The article from AMD leads me to believe there should be Neo versions for AMD? https://www.gskill.com/community/15...DDR4-4000-CL16-16GBx2-for-AMD-Ryzen-5000-CPUs
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Expect that many G.Skill kits from press releases won't be ever available. Usually, these top kits never hit the stores.
On the other hand, good luck setting DDR4-4000 1:1. So far I can't make anything above DDR4-3800 and I'm on my 3rd Ryzen 5000.
On the other hand, good luck setting DDR4-4000 1:1. So far I can't make anything above DDR4-3800 and I'm on my 3rd Ryzen 5000.
Hmm. That's disappointing. I wonder if a BIOS update will fix that or if this is just how the Ryzen 5000 series will be. I hate when people over promise and under deliver. I have 2 packs of F4-3200C14D-16GTZ. I was thinking about trying to get them up to 3600CL16 (maybe CL15) so I can run 1:1. This X570 Asrock Taichi is new to me, so I'll need to read up on it. I was debating just grabbing the F4-4000CL16D-32GTZ pack to keep things simple and enjoy the 4000CL16, but not if it does not exist and cannot run at advertised speeds.
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My limited experience is setting to 3600 1:1 yields the best results. Woomack is a better judge but from what I've read 5000 series is only mildly better than 3000. Iirc 3800 1:1 is about the std setting.
Edit: per amd max supported for both 3000 & 5000 is 3200mhz so anything above that is actually considered an overclock.
Edit: per amd max supported for both 3000 & 5000 is 3200mhz so anything above that is actually considered an overclock.
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My first hour on my new AMD system was with the memory at 2133 and a bunch of 22s and honestly it felt fine. Now I have it at 3600 with a bunch of 14s and it still feels fine
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4000 CL16 will run at advertised speeds ... but in most cases not at 1:1 ratio with IF/mem controller what will give you lower than expected performance. Count also that these 4000 CL16 are just a bit higher binned 3200 CL14-14-14 .. or 3600 CL16-16-16.
AMD said that will release AGESA that will help with higher memory clock. I have no idea if they released it already or not as since Ryzen 5000 release, except couple of stability fixes, there was no new AGESA.
I have 3 AM4 motherboards and on all I have +/- the same results, at least till ~DDR4-5200. I tested some more motherboards but some were not mine, some had to go back to the store and some I simply sold because were pretty disappointing. ASRock X570 Taichi seems like a solid option and ASRock usually delivers good BIOS for memory overclocking. For higher series motherboards there are many more BIOS updates and I know that brands like ASRock focus mostly on these high series while tuning BIOS.
I have ASUS CH VIII Impact which just got BIOS 27xx ... that's like 27 BIOS updates with more important changes, excluding betas and other test versions. It still didn't get a new AGESA since Ryzen 5000 release. The only updates mention stability and compatibility fixes.
Yeah, the 3200CL14 are a great bin, it's my understanding that the Ryzen's run better if the if/mem are clocked higher (1800 for Ryzen 2 and 2000 for Ryzen 3) and the if/mem match 1:1. I may be wrong? I have no experience to back up what I've read.
Everything I am reading seems to agree with you on the AGESA. AMD hasn't released a new AGESA yet and most users cannot get 1:1 ratio with 4000MHz and expect they won't until a new AGESA comes out.
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I ran some tests with AIDA64 and MaxMemm2. The RAM performed better on reads, writes, and latency on at 3600CL16 with the 1:1 FCLK:MCLK than 3200CL14 with 1:1. I attempted to run 3600CL15 but the RAM kept coming up as CL16 in BIOS. I also tried 3866CL16 which Woomack was also able to achieve on Intel and it would post, but the NB frequency dropped to 966 in CPU-Z, the FCLK:MCLK was 1800 / 1933, and the performance was horrible. I presume this isn't the RAM, but is just AMD being picky, but that's just a presumption. Hopefully a new AGESA will be released in the near future and G Skill will start selling the 4000CL16s.
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Ryzen performance is affected much more by memory clock than timings so 3600 even CL18 will be usually faster than 3200 CL14 or anything else. 3600 CL18 can be faster than CL16 if you compare different memory kits.
IF ratio and memory controller ratio can be manually set on most motherboards. If it's not in the main tab then it will be in AMD OC options. At lower memory clocks, up to ~3800, most motherboards will set it automatically at 1:1. When you pass some clock then it will run at 1:2 so have to set it manually.
I wouldn't count on much better results on new AGESA, if we ever get the one that supposed to improve memory OC at 1:1 ratio. Most CPUs seem to be limited anyway. On current AGESA should be still possible to pass 3800 while not all users can even reach that. I just doubt it's a matter of AGESA when IMC is the same as in Ryzen 3000 series and I could make exactly the same max memory clock 1:1 on Ryzen 3900X and 5900X ... with the little difference that on 3900X I could run higher 2x32GB or 4 memory stick kits.
If you have 4x8GB/2x16GB/2x32GB kits then stick with 1:1 ratio but if you have 2x8GB or single rank 2x16GB (only Micron so far) then you may play with a higher memory clock and 1:2 IF ratio but 1800MHz+ memory controller clock. Because of lower latency in Ryzen 5000, these settings give the same or sometimes better results, especially when you can push your RAM to 4800+ CL16/18. It's a matter of various settings and a lot to describe so won't cover it here.
Btw, to run memory at CL13/15/17, you have to disable gear down mode in BIOS.
IF ratio and memory controller ratio can be manually set on most motherboards. If it's not in the main tab then it will be in AMD OC options. At lower memory clocks, up to ~3800, most motherboards will set it automatically at 1:1. When you pass some clock then it will run at 1:2 so have to set it manually.
I wouldn't count on much better results on new AGESA, if we ever get the one that supposed to improve memory OC at 1:1 ratio. Most CPUs seem to be limited anyway. On current AGESA should be still possible to pass 3800 while not all users can even reach that. I just doubt it's a matter of AGESA when IMC is the same as in Ryzen 3000 series and I could make exactly the same max memory clock 1:1 on Ryzen 3900X and 5900X ... with the little difference that on 3900X I could run higher 2x32GB or 4 memory stick kits.
If you have 4x8GB/2x16GB/2x32GB kits then stick with 1:1 ratio but if you have 2x8GB or single rank 2x16GB (only Micron so far) then you may play with a higher memory clock and 1:2 IF ratio but 1800MHz+ memory controller clock. Because of lower latency in Ryzen 5000, these settings give the same or sometimes better results, especially when you can push your RAM to 4800+ CL16/18. It's a matter of various settings and a lot to describe so won't cover it here.
Btw, to run memory at CL13/15/17, you have to disable gear down mode in BIOS.
Thanks for the feedback. I went back and took another stab at it. I can get 3800CL16 16-16-16-36 to run if I force the fabric to 1900. AIDA64 and MaxMemm2 showed even more improvements over the 3600CL16 as expected. If I attempt to run 3866CL16 and force the fabric to 1933 it won't post. I guess I'm going to stick at 1900.
I have 2 more 8GB sticks of the same ram (a different color) BNIB. I was waiting to open them to see if 4000CL16 was going to become available and stable with the 2000 fabric clock.
I have 2 more 8GB sticks of the same ram (a different color) BNIB. I was waiting to open them to see if 4000CL16 was going to become available and stable with the 2000 fabric clock.
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For bandwidth comparison better use AIDA64 but I understand it's not free. On the other hand, these maxxmem results are close to what you would see in AIDA64... maybe except writes as it should be ~52GB/s+ but maybe it's a matter of maxxmem test.
Check tRFC at ~300-400 and tRC at 50-60. It should give you +~2-3GB/s. CL14-14-14 will probably run too but will need 1.5-1.55V.
Check tRFC at ~300-400 and tRC at 50-60. It should give you +~2-3GB/s. CL14-14-14 will probably run too but will need 1.5-1.55V.
I could not get 3800CL14 to post at any timing up to 1.50v. I don't intend to run daily above 1.50v so no reason to go higher for me. I was able to get 3800CL15 15-15-15-30 to run at 1.45v. I disabled GDM and forced CR to 1T. I believe this is faster than 2T? I downloaded a "DRAM Calculator for Ryzen" to determine more values for timings. It does not support CL15, so I went with CL16 results. The super fast values BSOD. I was able to get tRFC-tRFC2-tRFC4 running at 365-271-167. It suggested I try a tRC at 48, but that was a BSOD so I picked a value of 56 and so far that's been stable. Will do more stressing later.
EDIT- I couldn't keep it stable. It would constantly cause stress testing applications to crash. I tried increasing tRC to 60 and tRFC to 400 with the appropriate values and it wouldn't stabilize. I'm back down to 3800CL16. At least I'm max at 1900Mhz on the fabric.
EDIT- I couldn't keep it stable. It would constantly cause stress testing applications to crash. I tried increasing tRC to 60 and tRFC to 400 with the appropriate values and it wouldn't stabilize. I'm back down to 3800CL16. At least I'm max at 1900Mhz on the fabric.
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I ended up at 3800CL16 16-16-16-32. The DRAM Calculator for Ryzen tool was very useful and provided almost every tuning value needed. Once I configured all of those values the MaxMemm2 tests ran much faster. Definitely a tool I would recommend to anyone who is new to overclocking RAM.
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The only problem is that this calc was designed mostly with Samsung IC and can't provide good settings for some Micron or Hynix IC. I think they added Micron E or Hynix C/D but that's all. It gives expected values for some IC but it doesn't work on every kit in the same way. Some users report various issues after using mem calc. I'm not really digging into this topic. It can be helpful if someone has at least basic knowledge about memory settings. I'm simply not using it as I don't need it.
Depends on the motherboard and some other variables, the memory may need some higher or lower timings. As mentioned tRFC, I said to check ~400 because it always works. I could tell to use 280 as it's the most commonly used in really tight settings for competitive benchmarking but it causes stability issues on some platforms. Safe lowest is around 320-360. So for Ryzen when you have 3x tRFC then I recommend staying at ~360/280/220 or something near, not below 200 as it causes problems with booting on some IC (even the same IC but different bin). The same tRC below 52-56 causes some problems too.
Considering the thread title, we are far from the topic already
Depends on the motherboard and some other variables, the memory may need some higher or lower timings. As mentioned tRFC, I said to check ~400 because it always works. I could tell to use 280 as it's the most commonly used in really tight settings for competitive benchmarking but it causes stability issues on some platforms. Safe lowest is around 320-360. So for Ryzen when you have 3x tRFC then I recommend staying at ~360/280/220 or something near, not below 200 as it causes problems with booting on some IC (even the same IC but different bin). The same tRC below 52-56 causes some problems too.
Considering the thread title, we are far from the topic already
Agreed. I think the bottom line is G Skill is not launching the 4000Mhz for AMD due to the AGESA issues with Ryzen 5000. There are two other 4000CL16 kits available from G Skill for purchase today. I feel they're intentionally holding back on the AMD line because of the fabric clock issues above 1900Mhz.
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