• Welcome to Overclockers Forums! Join us to reply in threads, receive reduced ads, and to customize your site experience!

Gaming in HD

Overclockers is supported by our readers. When you click a link to make a purchase, we may earn a commission. Learn More.

pusHEsbaCkwigs

New Member
Joined
Jan 12, 2010
Location
Minnesota
To all:

I am what you would call a “hard core gamer”

I have a X Box Elite, I have the X4 Turtle Beach headphones, however, I use a tube TV to game on because of its “seemingly” instant refresh rate even though the picture and color are terrible. I have been saving up some money to purchase a monitor and am currently doing research in order to make a solid purchase.

Budget: 500.00 USD
Size: 24-32 I am willing to sacrifice size for refresh rate/response time only if necessary.
Primary Use: GAMING
Secondary Use: Desktop expansion for my MacBook
Other: TV/Movie viewing

Questions:

What is the difference between response time and refresh rate?
• Response time is grey to grey?
• Refresh rate is black to white to black?
What does this ^ actually correlate to visually?

What is the refresh rate/response time on a tube TV? Does this spec even apply to tube TV’s?

Would it be correct to say that the two most important specs to pay attention to when looking for a monitor specifically for gaming are: response time/refresh rate and contrast ratio?

What is a good contrast ratio? 1000:1?

What is a good refresh rate/response time? 2ms?

As screen size goes up does refresh rate/response time go up as well? How come?

1080 or 720? How big of a difference is there? Recommendations specific to gaming?

Are there any TVs that are really good for gaming? Specifically for gaming?

Possible Purchase:

From the research I have done and the knowledge I am aware of I am considering purchasing the ViewSonic VC2433wm
The only reason I am hesitant to buy this one is because it is not exactly the size I would like. I would preferably like a 27 or 30 inch however I’m starting to think they are not out there with 2ms refresh rates/response times.

Does anyone have suggestions on specific monitors from first hand experience?

Has anyone out there had experience with the ViewSonic VX2433wm? Or other ViewSonics?

Thanks, I’m new to this forum so any information would really help.

:comp: I MUST TO GAME IN HD :comp:
 

Tumnus

Member
Joined
Jan 30, 2005
Location
Houston
I can answer a few of these questions. If you are going to be sitting very close to the display, get 1080; otherwise, 720 should be just fine, especially considering the size of display you're looking at.

If you're just going to be using it for gaming, you can save a bundle of money buying a monitor with HDMI input. Someone more informed than myself could point you to some good models.
 

Mpegger

Member
Joined
Nov 28, 2001
Since you mentioned TV/Movie viewing, bear in mind that the trade off with a fast LCD screen is usually poorer color reproduction and limited view angles because of the type of screen used (TN panels I believe). Yes they're fast and cheap (price wise), but their colors can be terrible compared to a higher end screen like a IPS based LCD, especially thier viewing angles.

You may want to sacrifice some speed for better color and viewing angles with a MVA or PVA screen, especially since the response time of newer screens are closer to those TN based.
 

Chixofnix

Member
Joined
Nov 18, 2003
Location
Kansas City, KS USA
@ All: A lot of what you may know regarding computer display terminology and important properties gets thrown out the window in the world of televisions today. Assume any manufacturer's specs and figures given cannot be fairly compared across different brands or even different series within a brand. Today's LCD televisions have come a long, long way from their PC display ancestry.

You can save yourself a lot of time by first walking into a store with a wide variety of televisions on display (larger best buys are great). Allow your intended budget and overall screen size expectations to narrow your selection, and see what looks good to you. Write down the make/models that subjectively look great and meet your initial image quality standards while falling within your budget.

Then go home.

Read up on those models and hear what people who do nothing else all day have to say. AVS forum is the best place I've found to find individuals of that mindset btw ;). Allow others' experiences over time to guide your final decision and bring up things you may not have noticed the first time in the store.

1080 and 720 both look very nice with matching media. In the specific context of gaming, your xbox is capable of 1080i and 720p output (1080p on only a few less memorable titles - iirc), but there is no real effect on framerate.

One more bit on image quality - definitely pay attention to black levels! I'm pretty sure with your budget and performance needs, you will be looking primarily at LCD displays. Today's LCD televisions have come a long way, but you have to pay attention to ensure you get a set who's blackest black is nice and inky. This ability to hit the lows and highs properly is very important imho to both movies/tv and particularly gaming, to get the immersion feeling correct - especially if you play in a slightly dim to dark environment!

Also, and this is a generalization, you will always have the option with a set budget to get something "better" on paper vs. a brand name you recognize (i.e. samsung, sony, toshiba etc.). Definitely do your research first, but if you insist on an impulse buy, then opt for the brand name.
 
Last edited:

FudgeNuggets

Member
Joined
Mar 2, 2006
Location
Gone Racing
Pay close attention to the actual screen resolution. Many TVs are 1366x720 or even 1024x720 and state they are 1080p because they can accept and scale a 1080p signal to the TVs native resolution.

Your best LCD TVs are 240hz and 5ms or less refresh rate although 120hz is more common and even 60hz in the cheaper stuff

You'll want at least 120hz for games to get no ghosting on fast moving stuff or watching fast moving stuff on video

That being said, Plasmas are 600hz, have superior color and blacks as well and are cheaper than LCDs (at least for the bigger sets). I would suggest going plasma if you can. Used to be that burn-in and heat was an issue with plasma but that is no longer the case.
 

Chixofnix

Member
Joined
Nov 18, 2003
Location
Kansas City, KS USA
Pay close attention to the actual screen resolution. Many TVs are 1366x720 or even 1024x720 and state they are 1080p because they can accept and scale a 1080p signal to the TVs native resolution.

Your best LCD TVs are 240hz and 5ms or less refresh rate although 120hz is more common and even 60hz in the cheaper stuff

You'll want at least 120hz for games to get no ghosting on fast moving stuff or watching fast moving stuff on video

That being said, Plasmas are 600hz, have superior color and blacks as well and are cheaper than LCDs (at least for the bigger sets). I would suggest going plasma if you can. Used to be that burn-in and heat was an issue with plasma but that is no longer the case.

I'm going to respectfully disagree on a few points, sorry Fudge :).

First, Plasma and LCD televisions are both capable of outstanding picture quality. Today's plasma sets have evolved from many previous issues including burn-in and excessive idle energy usage. Likewise LCD displays have come a long way from horrible viewing angles, poor color reproduction and response times. A lot has changed for the better within even this past year.

You bring up a good point - as the size of the television goes up (starting somewhere within the 40"-50" diagonal range and up as of this past holiday season), you definitely start to see better performance per dollar from plasma sets over LCD's. This size tipping point has crept upwards in recent years. The OP did state the maximum size range of 32." I am pretty darn confident that plasma is entirely outclassed for a budget of $500 in that size range. That there's LCD territory folks ;).

Also, regarding the Hz output of televisions (60 vs 120 vs 240). I have to insist that anyone considering paying a serious premium for such a feature first give an honest effort to discern the difference in person at a store. I honestly was completely sold on the logic of it initially: film and television is shot at either 24 or 30 frames per second (some sports channels at 60). 24 doesn't divide evenly into 60 but does into 120/240, so naturally motion should be smoother right? As far as my human senses are concerned, no. While I could see a difference side-by-side in horizontally scrolling small text, I could not tell when it wasn't side by side, and I could not tell with vertically scrolling small text. Neither was difficult to read. Definitely zero perceptible difference in an actual motion picture.

Again, if you have a set budget, I would definitely make certain this is an important feature for YOU before paying that large premium to the detriment of more important picture quality aspects like darkness levels and range of color/contrast controls.

Further food for thought: Xbox in all of its iterations will only output 60Hz at most. This happens to divide (perfectly) into a standard 60Hz television. (source: http://wiki.digital-digest.com/index.php/Xbox_360_Output)

[EDIT]: Another important purchasing point - for high ticket items like this, assume any brick+mortar price-matching restrictions are subject to negotiation. My local BB steadfastly would not honor price matching for smaller items until I came in looking at televisions - THEN they became determined to make the sale ;).
 
Last edited:

FudgeNuggets

Member
Joined
Mar 2, 2006
Location
Gone Racing
I acutally agree with you 100% Chix. but I've been shopping for TVs lately and I've seen some pretty bad ghosting problems out of Sceptre and Vizio units, even at 120hz that weren't present in LGs, Panasonics, Samsungs etc......
 
OP
pusHEsbaCkwigs

pusHEsbaCkwigs

New Member
Joined
Jan 12, 2010
Location
Minnesota
i recently posted the exact same post on the AVS forums.\

I have been notified that what I really should be concerned about is input lag. I was under the understanding that response time/refresh rate was responsible for input lag but I have been corrected otherwise. Here is a like to the post: AVS Forum Post

With that being said, what is the highest end monitor with the lowest input lag?

Thanks!
 

Theocnoob

Member
Joined
Dec 1, 2007
Location
Near Toronto Canada
i recently posted the exact same post on the AVS forums.\

I have been notified that what I really should be concerned about is input lag. I was under the understanding that response time/refresh rate was responsible for input lag but I have been corrected otherwise. Here is a like to the post: AVS Forum Post

With that being said, what is the highest end monitor with the lowest input lag?

Thanks!

I recommend it a lot but it's inside your budget, It's an IPS alpha, it doesn't ghost. Its 8ms, and that's somewhat noticeable, but totally worth it for the obscenely good color reproduction and RAZOR sharp image.

Panasonic TCL32S1 1920x1080 32" LCD TV

Positives: ZERO input lag as measured by guitar hero/rockband/etc
EXCELLENT color. EXCELLENT static and dynamic contrast
EXCEPTIONAL color gamut

Negatives: 8ms somewhat noticeable
viewed off angle, blacks suffer from lack of darkness.
 

Chixofnix

Member
Joined
Nov 18, 2003
Location
Kansas City, KS USA
i recently posted the exact same post on the AVS forums.\

I have been notified that what I really should be concerned about is input lag. I was under the understanding that response time/refresh rate was responsible for input lag but I have been corrected otherwise. Here is a like to the post: AVS Forum Post

With that being said, what is the highest end monitor with the lowest input lag?

Thanks!

This is gonna sound like a dodge, but let me back up and encourage you to not allow yourself to get overly focused and overspend on a single stat to the detriment of others.

That said, input lag is real and noticeable effect, particularly (to me, personally) when hooking your computer for use as a secondary display.

Input lag can be eliminated (or rather, avoided) regarding gaming with your xbox if you are careful to select a television with a matching native resolution, or otherwise an option to NOT scale the image.

For full info, check this FAQ from AVS: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=558125

[EDIT]: Oh geez I missed it again! :welcome: to the forums!
 
Last edited:

Daleon

Member
Joined
Jul 7, 2004
For what you want, the Samsung LN32B650 is the perfect match on all points. 120hz and 4ms. Samsung LCD's have some of the best blacks and lowest input lags. Price is the only killer.

I'm thinking of getting the 37" version. Ever since I bought my dad a 50" Panny Plasma S1 I've been seriously jealous. The old 37" Westy is starting to show its age.