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GCN v1.0 vs v1.1/v1.2

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Haider

Member
Joined
Dec 20, 2012
Hi,

I just read that Rise of the Tomb Raider supports async compute starting on GCN v1.1. I did some research on compute on Radeon HD 7970 GCB v1.0 and R9 280X v1.1. In synopsis: -
Compute queue limit support GCN v1.1 & 1.2 =64 GCN v1.0 =2
Multi engine concurrency GCN v1.1 & 1.2 =1 3D engine+upto 8 Compute engines; can seamlessly interleave commands from 8 async queues, V1.0 1 3D engine + upto 2 compute engines
3D shader concurrency execution slots dynamically shared between all command types GCN1.1.
Compute shader concurrency execution slots dynamically shared between all of the 8 compute queues since GCN 1.1.

My original belief was the GCN v1.1 was really much ado about nothing, when in fact there's a lot of work done to make compute useful and broaden it's appeal. It's as if they want the GPU to take more work from the CPU. I don't blame the internet hardware sites as nobody realised what was happening at the time as there attitude was GCN v1.1 move on nothing to see here. Seems like someone was laying the ground work to move more things of the CPU...Now my story I recently purchased 2 Sapphire Radeon HD 7970 Vapor-X cards for about £200 on Ebay. Why because I don't think the RX 480 / GTX 1060 / GTX 1070 are worth the money for performance they provide. I expect GTX 1070 performance for £300 not £400+. I'm not broke, I earn like over £300 a day and I have to work hard for that. So if you want my money I expect the same - I'm not a skin flint. I feel as if I'm being price gouged. Looking into the async compute/compute side of things I'm thinking of selling them and getting two R9 280x but you have to factor: -
A GPU must have free cycles available for async compute loads. If it's maxed out with graphics then it does have the free cycles to stick compute loads on the fly.
The biggest fillip for AMD GPUs in DX 12 is being able multi-thread the graphics processing, spreading the graphics load to multiple cores compared to being on just 1 in DirectX 11. That's the big win for AMD GPUs.
nVidia has work-around in the driver to have a thread on more than 1 core hence they always come out on top in DX11. So

These (dual 7970s) aren't the final solution waiting till something comes out in the market that is worth money. Though the dual 7970s/280x should perform better under DX12. I feel currently that AMD/nVidia want to charge too much for what they are offering. I expect GTX 1070 performance to come around £300 which it does in the States. I'm thinking of selling the 7970s on Ebay and getting dual R9 280x. I play a few games Elite Dangerous, Metal Solid TPP, GTA 5, Satellite Reign, The Long Dark & thinking about the new Deus Ex game - if it is as good as the original, probably pick up Crysis 3 at some point too. Only play in 1080P like to max it out though. I'm currently using a single 7950 Vapor-X. What is your take on it?

Thanks
Haider
Asus ROG Rampage IV Formula Intel [email protected] Noctua NH-D15 Seasonic 850W M12II Bronze Evo PSU Micron Crucial 16GB VLP RAM Noctua NH-D15 SAN Disk 480 MB SSD 2TB HDD Define R5 Sony BRAVIA KDL-42W705B 2x140mm Vortex Aluminium Fans
 

EarthDog

Gulper Nozzle Co-Owner
Joined
Dec 15, 2008
Location
Buckeyes!
Interesting rant(?)...

Getting a 280x won't be any different than a 7970. It was a rebadge... same exact card, different name.

They might be charging too much for your tastes, but you are doing a disservice to yourself by purchasing older hardware.

I'm not sure what would be 'worth it' for the money to you. What would that matter? Hopefully you have realistic expectations!

Honestly, for 1080p, I would simply get a 1070 and call it a day. Otherwise, wait for AMD Vega and see if that is 'worth it'. :)
 
OP
H

Haider

Member
Joined
Dec 20, 2012
Interesting rant(?)...

Getting a 280x won't be any different than a 7970. It was a rebadge... same exact card, different name.

They might be charging too much for your tastes, but you are doing a disservice to yourself by purchasing older hardware.

I'm not sure what would be 'worth it' for the money to you. What would that matter? Hopefully you have realistic expectations!

Honestly, for 1080p, I would simply get a 1070 and call it a day. Otherwise, wait for AMD Vega and see if that is 'worth it'. :)

One man and his dog have got to make a stand at some-point but I know where you're coming from but nVidia is off the menu, as longterm I'll just be perpetuating a monopoly, in the long term that will be bad for my interests. Technically I like the GCN architecture it's a very elegant solution though I'm not an AMD fanboy but just looking after my long term interests. I have no shares or sponsorship deals with either AMD or nVidia. dual 7970 will last as long as they give good graphics performance or when something with GTX 1070 performance comes out from AMD. I heard 490 and Vega are in the pipeline or is one and the same card?

- - - Updated - - -

Keep in mind that in the states, price is displayed excl. VAT.

Still about £90 less for GTX 1070 OC Strix...
 

Tír na nÓg

Member
Joined
Sep 19, 2015
Yes, one month ago would have been a different story. The pound lost what, 15% roughly?

Btw, a 7970/280x on the cheap will give you a nice performance increase. You'll be between a 980 and a 980ti on games that support xfire. The down side is the 3gb vram.
 

EarthDog

Gulper Nozzle Co-Owner
Joined
Dec 15, 2008
Location
Buckeyes!
One man and his dog have got to make a stand at some-point but I know where you're coming from but nVidia is off the menu, as longterm I'll just be perpetuating a monopoly, in the long term that will be bad for my interests. Technically I like the GCN architecture it's a very elegant solution though I'm not an AMD fanboy but just looking after my long term interests. I have no shares or sponsorship deals with either AMD or nVidia. dual 7970 will last as long as they give good graphics performance or when something with GTX 1070 performance comes out from AMD. I heard 490 and Vega are in the pipeline or is one and the same card?

- - - Updated - - -



Still about £90 less for GTX 1070 OC Strix...
NVIDIA isn't a monopoly.

Vega is the high end AMD GPU architecture, I do not know what they will name the next card. Presumably a 490, yes.

Well... I guess we'll talk in a few months when we see vega. :)
 
OP
H

Haider

Member
Joined
Dec 20, 2012
NVIDIA isn't a monopoly.

Vega is the high end AMD GPU architecture, I do not know what they will name the next card. Presumably a 490, yes.

Well... I guess we'll talk in a few months when we see vega. :)

Another qns...they never end. I have seen a Asus ROG 390 Strix on for £250 vs ROG RX 480 Strix at £290. I'm thinking dual card 390s would cost £500 where as the RX 480 would cost £580. In benchmarks they pretty much on a par. They both use the Direct CU v3 cooling solution...Why not plump for 390s and save myself 90?
 

Tír na nÓg

Member
Joined
Sep 19, 2015
1 - with 850w, you'll be on the edge if you overclock both CPU and GPU: 300W for each GPU, not overclocked.
2 - why relying on old tech? If taking this way, you'd better go with less than a year used hardware, with S/N warranty. RX 480 is an all new tech, you can expect better driver support than with the 3 years old Hawai XT while RX 480 is Polaris.
3 - If you live in a warm place, you need to buy an airco unit for the 390's. They will nicely heat up your home! (been there ;), and need a 3...).
 

EarthDog

Gulper Nozzle Co-Owner
Joined
Dec 15, 2008
Location
Buckeyes!
Agreed with #2 and 3 above. 390s are 290s rebadged with a bit better power managment. I wouldn't overclock everything to the limit, but some can certainly be done. They are 275W cards.

No way I would choose a 390 over a 480. Old tech, horrifically inefficient comparatively.
 
OP
H

Haider

Member
Joined
Dec 20, 2012
You see guys my original idea was to sell my Sony KDL42W705B monitor and get 50" 4K LCD TV/Monitor http://www.currys.co.uk/gbuk/tv-and-home-entertainment/televisions/televisions/jvc-lt-49c860-smart-4k-ultra-hd-49-led-tv-10141912-pdt.html?srcid=198&cmpid=ppc~gg~~~Exact&mctag=gg_goog_7904&s_kwcid=AL!3391!3!53838739415!!!g!56951529425!&device=c&istCompanyId=bec25c7e-cbcd-460d-81d5-a25372d2e3d7&istItemId=xtxwaaiirw&istBid=tztx&PLA=1&ef_id=V6RxQAAABHaiqhvt:20160805151347:s

For me that's the next step up 1080P60 to 4KP60. Unfortunately graphics cards can't handle it unless you get nVidia Titman. So looking at fps wise: -
290X=GTX 1060=RX 480=390X They are all on a par...
I'm not really bothered about the extra heating/power as I don't usually heat the man cave, leave that to the PC. I like the GTX 1060 Strix but not too sure. What do you reckon worth spending an extra £120 over a used Sapphire Radeon 290X Vapor-X Tri-X 8GB?
 

EarthDog

Gulper Nozzle Co-Owner
Joined
Dec 15, 2008
Location
Buckeyes!
Titman!?! :rofl:

Depends on what your goals are at 4K. You will not be pushing 60 FPS at ultra with AA across all titles. But you can run ultra with no AA (4K pixel density you can use less/none and get away with it) with a single 1080 in many titles and be around 60 FPS average. Now, Crysis 3? ROTR cranked? Now you are getting down there in FPS. Have a look see: https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/ASUS/GTX_1080_STRIX/6.html

I play Doom, BF4, SW: Battlefront, Dirt:Rally with ease. Heck, I even have AA on Doom (FXAA minimum), BF4 (2xMSAA), Dirt:Rally (4xMSAA). Now those titles don't kill GPUs, but, you get my point. Its doable. Perhaps not optimal and can run things cranked AA wise, but Ultra without AA or turned down and ~60 FPS is what a 1080 can do.
 
OP
H

Haider

Member
Joined
Dec 20, 2012
So the final build currently stands at: -
i7-4930K
Noctua NH-D15
Micron/Crucial Ballistix Tactical LP 8GB PC3-12800 X2
Asus ROG Rampage IV Formula
Corsair (Channel Well Technologies) RM850i
Asus (nVidia) GTX 1060 Strix
Sandisk 480GB SSD Plus
Fractal Design Define R5
Seagate 2TB HDD
Windows 10 + VirtualBox Fedora
 
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EarthDog

Gulper Nozzle Co-Owner
Joined
Dec 15, 2008
Location
Buckeyes!
I still dont understand the ROG RIV Formula purchase (get something a lot cheaper)... and a 1060 isn't close to running 4K like you just mentioned...
 
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Tír na nÓg

Member
Joined
Sep 19, 2015
^This, and the PSU is way overkill too.

With what could be saved on the MoBo and the PSU, OP will have enough cash to get a 1070.
 
OP
H

Haider

Member
Joined
Dec 20, 2012
I still dont understand the ROG RIV Formula purchase (get something a lot cheaper)... and a 1060 isn't close to running 4K like you just mentioned...

ROG Formula was looking for an X79, missed one that went £155 - was doing a BBQ, came up on the iPain but by the time I had done flipping the burgers I was too late, I had been stalking that for a week or so, a bit peeved, ended up paying £268 - 'cause I wanted one quick.
 
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EarthDog

Gulper Nozzle Co-Owner
Joined
Dec 15, 2008
Location
Buckeyes!
2 may do it well... but why do that to yourself? Why not get a card that has a chance on its own? Or something more powerful than the 1060. You are adding complexity for little reason.
 
OP
H

Haider

Member
Joined
Dec 20, 2012
2 may do it well... but why do that to yourself? Why not get a card that has a chance on its own? Or something more powerful than the 1060. You are adding complexity for little reason.

Cancelled the ROG from Amazon.

Looking at this: -
https://www.overclockers.co.uk/inno3d-geforce-gtx-1070-ichill-air-boss-x4-8192mb-gddr5-pci-express-graphics-card-gx-065-in.html

Or two R9 290X 8GB Vapor-X. You ask why Crysis 3 1080P 290X dual CF got 108.75 FPS vs a single GTX 1080 111.4 FPS. Cost to me of the dual 290x 8GB is vapor-x £400 ($526), 1080 just shy off £600 ($780). In The Ashes of the Singularity the finishing order is reversed R290x is faster. Also crunched the number on the GTA 5 similar story to Crysis 3... It's like you're saying to me you can have GTX 1080 for the price of a GTX 1070. I don't get much time to game so electricity is a moot point...
 

Janus67

Benching Team Leader
Joined
May 29, 2005
I'd always prefer to have a single powerful card instead of two slower cards in crossfire/sli because of the power, heat, driver, and other issues that tend to pop up.
 
OP
H

Haider

Member
Joined
Dec 20, 2012
I'd always prefer to have a single powerful card instead of two slower cards in crossfire/sli because of the power, heat, driver, and other issues that tend to pop up.

On the road to that - a single card, waiting for Vega before I take the plunge...Don't need the hassle factor, time deficient as it is, rather spend money than waste precious time...
 
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OP
H

Haider

Member
Joined
Dec 20, 2012
On the road to that - a single card, waiting for Vega before I take the plunge...Don't need the hassle factor, time deficient as it is, rather spend money than waste precious time...

With Vega being pushed back to 2017 looking to buy a ROG GTX 1070 Strix or Zotac GTX 1070 AMP Extreme Spectra RGB? Any ideas which better card...

So the final build currently stands at: -
i7-4930K
Noctua NH-D15
Micron/Crucial Ballistix Tactical LP 32GB PC3-12800 (8GB X4) - Console + Dev Workstation
Asus ROG Rampage IV Formula
Seasonic M12II EVO 850W
Sandisk 480GB SSD Plus
Fractal Design Define R5 V2
Seagate 2TB HDD
Windows 10 + Oracle 11g + Vagrant + VirtualBox + RedHat Enterprise