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Gemini NVWB mounting harware question

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johnyew

Registered
Joined
Jul 31, 2001
Location
Hong Kong
Can anybody confirm the mounting hardware is the same as what Hoot pictured in his wb shootout article?

I just received my wb today from Case-Mod and the only similar items I have as Hoot's pic is the O-ring and mobo standoff. I've got 4 2in long nylon bolts, 4 nuts and 4 washer/spacer thing. Whats incredulous is that the bolts and nuts dont match. The bolt is 3/16 as far as I can tell and the nut is METRIC M3!!!! What???!!!:confused: :confused: :confused:

Am I suppose to cut the bolts to size? What??? Is this a belated international April Fools prank???


John Yew,
Hong Kong.
 

lebe0024

Member
Joined
Mar 22, 2002
Location
St. Paul - Minnesota
Yeah, the mounting hardware sucks. I got mine last friday, and I didn't get any o-rings with mine. I got four nylon bolts, four nuts (that are all too small for the bolts), four springs, four washers, and two different kinds of standoffs (for the two different sized holes out there.

I have the smaller holes, so I clipped those badboys in. Then I tried putting the waterblock on and screwing in the bolts w/springs and washers. Well, The spring was hardly compressed at all. So, then I took it all apart again and FORCED the nut on first (before springs) esentially making the bolt shorter. Then I put on the spring, then washer, then I screwed that into the standoffs. That seemed to work, but I had to use a wrench to get that nut on, and it cross threaded about every 10th thread or so. When it was all put together, I tried tightening the bolts really firmly, and one of the standoffs turned with the bolt, and ended up grinding off three resisters on my motherboard.OOps.

I'm going to go out and get some steel bolts and wingnuts, but I'll keep the screws and springs, and make my own assembly.
 

FIRESTARR357

Member
Joined
Dec 28, 2001
Ahh great that sux that was one of the major reasons i was ganna get one,So what your saying is that it is no better then the maze 2 mounting?Any ony get one derect from gemini?did they send the same that hoot got.:mad:
 

KingB

Member
Joined
Jan 29, 2002
Location
Calgary, Alberta
I got the exact setup that hoot got from case-mod. They even threw in an extra couple of bolts. The installation was a snap.
 

JokerF15

Member
Joined
Jan 5, 2002
Location
San Jose, CA
The Mounting hardware that we provide (Case-Mod.com) comes straight from Peter. This batch of blocks included bolts and long screws. Peter has not yet decided on a 'perfect' solution.

I would think it should include springs to ensure good clamping pressure.

Also, if you guys have any suggestions for mounting hardware feel free to let us know! =). You guys have more experiance than we probably do.

-JokerF15

edit: Just got off the phone with Peter from Gemini Cool. Talked to him for a bit about the mounting hardware.

The Screws and the Nuts are both the same thread size. The Nut is a locking nut so it doesn't come out when you move your case around. He is going to include springs from now on so you know how much you are clamping the waterblock and how much pressure is put on there.

He is working on a 'universal' techinque to mount his blocks.

Well hopefully this clears some stuff up. =).
 
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FIRESTARR357

Member
Joined
Dec 28, 2001
I really liked the mounting screws hoot got in his review,as from what he said you do not have to remove the motherboard to take the block on and off.And as far as from what hoot said this seemed like a real easy way to mount the block,Aslo they looked like finger tighting screws, witch for some one like me who changes processers often would be great.
 

JokerF15

Member
Joined
Jan 5, 2002
Location
San Jose, CA
FIRESTARR357 said:
I really liked the mounting screws hoot got in his review,as from what he said you do not have to remove the motherboard to take the block on and off.And as far as from what hoot said this seemed like a real easy way to mount the block,Aslo they looked like finger tighting screws, witch for some one like me who changes processers often would be great.

The problem with the standoffs and mounting is that Amd boards come with different sized mounting holes. So the standoffs that came with the blocks will not fit on abit boards and shuttle board from what i know.

Yes they are awesome in the sense that you don't have to take your board out to mount it, but that's only if your board fits the standoffs ;).

-JokerF15
 
OP
J

johnyew

Registered
Joined
Jul 31, 2001
Location
Hong Kong
Somethings screwed up

I can confirm that the bolt and nut are NOT the same thread size. The bolt is 8/32 but the nut is METRIC M3!!!

How do i know? That what I use here in my factory. Metric stuff. I have a Metric M3 bolt and nut along with Peter's nylon bolt and nut. The Metric bolt will screw easily into the nylon nut but the the nylon bolt will not fit into the metric nut. As I told Peter, lock nuts maybe tight but they are NOT supposed to damage threads or cause cross threading.

Somebody's screwing around with Peter's nuts! :eek:
 

Highlander944

Registered
Joined
Jan 31, 2002
Gemini mounting hardware.

Hello guys, I'm very sorry to hear so many of you are having mounting issues. Here's the long version of what is happening, in 100,000 words or less. :)

Personally, when I installed the water block for the 1st time, I looked at the motherboard and felt that there is no way in hell I would want to force users to remove EVERYTHING from their system to install a CPU cooler. So I turned to the official AMD documentation and read the specification on the mounting holes. .157 with a 'dead zone'. So on my 1st test system, which just so happen to have an epox board, I confirmed this specification and setout to find a mounting solution. Once I found the snap in standoffs (the stuff pictured in hoots review), I was quite satisfied with mounting the block in this fashion.

It took about one week for me to discover that my personal Abit motherboard does NOT use this mounting solution. Abit decided to make the mounting holes .247 in diameter which includes the AMD specified 'dead zone'. So now I was forced into a dilemma. I liked the nylon screws and standoffs. I really liked front mounting the block. I had a very difficult time determining an economical way to front mount the block on these .247 boards. In the short term, I began telling everyone who ordered from GeminiCool that I did NOT have detailed instructions and that there are some mounting issues to be addressed. I also began including longer screws, locking nuts, and washers assuming people could simply through mount the blocks for the time being.

Ok here's where things got out of sink. Inorder to accommodate through board mounting I had to switch to longer screws. I also included locking nuts so that when in transport there would be NO WAY for the bolts to come lose. I made the mistake of not getting the instructions out there fast enough and not making the mounting issues well enough known. I wrongly assumed, since I'd been working so closely with the hardware, that most people would see things the same way I did. If you received the longer screw and wanted to surface mount the cooler, I had hoped scissors would be used to cut the bolt to size. :( I had also hoped that people recognized the lock nut, although it is more difficult to turn than I had expected. The bolt is an 8-32 thread as is the nut. No you aren't cross threading the thing although the threads do get 'flattened' a bit. The screw now has a slot on top so you don't rip your fingers apart while turning the nut with a ratchet. During this time I also realized that the o-rings do not work as well when using the through board mounting because you do not get any 'feedback'.

As soon as I recieved my first e-mails with people having problems mounting the block, I spent the day working through all of these issues. I have begun taking pictures and writing a formal mounting section. I am also in the process of updating the site. You will be able to order the blocks for $39 or $34 without hardware, and purchase the hardware kit separately for $3.00. In the new hardware kit, I will include formal instructions. :) The kit will contain.
4 nylon screws to use in through mount OR .247 surface mounting
4 surface mounting .247
4 nylon LOCK nuts
4 nylon washers
4 shorter nylon screws for surface mounting .157 holes
4 3/8" .157 locking standoffs
4 .5" springs rated at 4-5lbs compression.

I have found that asking customers to cut the screws themselves is a bad idea and I'm sorry to anyone who I lead astray there. I will be including two sizes of screws so that no cutting will be needed. Expect to see the updates published at www.geminicool.com by the end of the week.

I hope this helps clear up the mounting issues/problems.

Also here's another little trick, that I *hope* everyone out there knows. When installing the tubing, always wet the end before sliding it over the fitting. If you must twist the tubing, try to twist it in a clockwise direction. And finally ALWAYS use something to clamp the tube once in place.

This is my 1st time working with such a large variety of people so I appreciate your patience while we work through getting the best mounting for everyone.

Thank you,

Peter.
 
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Highlander944

Registered
Joined
Jan 31, 2002
JohnYew... that is very funny, but I'm not sure my wife will be to happy hearing about that. :-D

I'll give you guys the a huge hint here, just don't copy too much of my stuff, and enjoy your free samples... ;)

www.microplastics.com You will find the standoffs, screws, nuts, and rivets. You will also see that the screws I chose, I chose because they are the ONLY alternative that was long enough to accommodate through board mounting.
 

Highlander944

Registered
Joined
Jan 31, 2002
Just noticed that there is a disclaimer now posted on their website... the locking nuts are designed for use with steel screws...

I have used these nuts in-house. I use a racket and slot screw driver and have no problems installing. I have NOT stripped a single bolt and there is no way in hell they will every 'rattle' lose. So what would u guys prefer to see, a nut that requires tools to install, or something you can install with your fingers and run the risk of coming lose during the trip to QuakeCon?

Peter.
 
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J

johnyew

Registered
Joined
Jul 31, 2001
Location
Hong Kong
Peter,
I will try to post a pic of the bolt after tightening it with the nylon bolt. It is definitely damaged or cross threaded NOT flattened.

edit: Peter, just saw your reply on the use of the nylon bolt. Yikes! No wonder. I'm still puzzled why it fits nicely to a Metric bolt.Perhaps they made it that way.
 
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J

johnyew

Registered
Joined
Jul 31, 2001
Location
Hong Kong
I think I may have cracked my 1.3T-bird last night trying to find the proper clamping pressure using my previous HSF spring setup on my Gemini wb by adding spacers or worse maybe cracked my 8KHA+ mobo! :eek:

I hope thats not the case. When I power it up, there's no video signal but I can hear the normal POST memory test 'noises'. I hope thats a good sign.

For those who had experienced damaged CPU before, did you get any video signal at all, like when you first power up your PC, do you see on your screen your videocard information followed by mobo POST screen?

For those who have experienced damaged mobo before, what are the signs to look out for?

If only my T-bird is damaged, its my second one now. The first was damaged when I bought the SuperOrb HSF. I managed to get a free replacement then. I wonder if I can do it again. If not, I'll be getting myself a new XP.

As for the 'best' wb mounting solution, I finally figured out what will work best for me. I am going to put bolts on the mobo instead of standoffs. That way its easy to put on the wb and tighten down the springs at the same time.