Getting obsessed with B-Die, still don't have 2 sticks to my satisfaction

[GrimReaper85]

I already bought 3 B-Die kits. I will RMA Patriot as it doesn't provide anything I don't already have.
Green colored cells are the best settings.

I'm in the process of testing the right Patriot stick, so far it doesn't look to be much better than the left one. I'm very disappointed with this kit and will return it ASAP. I just bought it because it got high praise on overclocking Reddit, also by Buildzoid. But I also knew silicon lottery plays a big role even in better kits like 3600 14-15-15 and 4000 15-16-16.

Then I need to decide if I'll go hunting for another stick that can do 4000 C14, like the left 3200C14 stick. But before doing that, I actually need to try with first 2 sticks that can do 3900 C14 separately at 1.50V, if they even work together. Because as you can see 4100 C15 doesn't work with both sticks. If that doesn't work, no use hunting for another good C14 stick. And if you check C15 and C16, it's actually worse than others.

What I can do even now, take both right G.Skill sticks and settle for 4000 C15 or 4266 C16.

Only drawback I see it won't work 3900 C14 and 4133 C15, but it should work 4100 C15.

Why do I even want them to work at every setting? I was thinking doing some game benchmarks and make similar comparison spreadsheet. And I can't do that with that not so good right 3200C14 stick.

But if nothing else, I can just install both 3600C16 sticks for that purpose, that is if they even work at 3900 C14.

Using same kits 3600C16 or 3200C14 seems to be out of the option. That I could only run 4200 C16, maybe also 4000 C15, but I don't like the high voltage difference.

I just hate it how they can't match sticks better and you actually need to buy 4 kits to find something to your liking.

And this is only the 4 primary timings. I already did all the subs on 3600C16 kit, but then read on overclocking Reddit how 3200 C14 is a better bin than 3600 C16 and decided to also try that one. When I'll finally be satisifed with primaries, some subs need +0.03V more. So anything that needs 1.50V+ just on primaries, will be out of the question.

So like I said, best option without spending more money would be to just take both right G.Skill sticks and running 4266 C16. My 10600K can also handle that with 1.30V VCCSA. About that 4400 C19 not working, it's probably down to my CPU, I tried 1.40-1.45V VCCSA and no luck. I wouldn't want to run that 24/7 anyway.

I also tried 1.65V, I think there's a hard wall at 1.55-1.56V, anything above that to at least 1.75V is not stable.

B-Die is fine if you just buy 3600 C16 and set XMP, but then if you decide to OC, you can quickly become obsessed like me. To be honest, just 3600 C16 is a waste of B-Die, every kit should work 4000 C16. And when you're already there, why not try 4000 C15.

 

[MaddMutt]

What is your price range??? Are you in need of another KIT??? I've had great luck from my 3 kits of TeamGroup https://www.newegg.com/team-16gb-288-pin-ddr4-sdram/p/N82E16820331244
I have a EVGA z390 Dark/i9-9900kf & ASUS M9 Apex/i7-6700k that I can hit 3866 @ 12-12-28/220 1T w/1.925v or EVGA x299 Dark/i9-7980xe, i9-10940x that can hit 4000 @12-12-28/220 1T w/1.825v.
https://www.overclockers.com/team-group-t-force-xtreem-4133-ddr4-review/

 

[Woomack]

Settings for benching and stable work are two different things. 3800+ CL12 won't be fully stable because of the architecture and in most cases to even boot you need to cut the max RAM capacity to ~3GB. I'm also not sure if OP is interested in higher voltages because of mentioned 1.55V.
1.55V for me is usually good for up to something like 4400/4600 CL16-16-16 or 4800 CL18-18-18. On intel it performs a bit better than anything around DDR4-4000/4200 at the same voltages. The only problem can be that i5-10500/10600 usually have weaker IMC so many won't pass DDR4-4600. For example my i5-10500 was hitting a wall at DDR4-4533.

I have mixed feelings about these 4133 Xtreem kits and I have seen some users complaining at their kits too. Some users have great results, others have problems to pass some frequency or run at tight timings. For me it was working weird, on one motherboard I could reach DDR4-4500 at quite low timings but on all others I couldn't even boot above DDR4-4266. I had no problems like that with G.Skill, Patriot or some other brands.

G.Skill has the highest binned Samsung B so if you hunt for this IC then it's the best option. Everything that I was testing from G.Skill could run at tight timings and high frequencies. My best kits were DDR4-3200 CL14 (white/black TridentZ), DDR4-3600 CL15-15-15 (older red TridentZ) and TridentZ Neo DDR4-3600 CL14/DDR4-3800 CL14. For some reason, all TridentZ RGB DDR4-4133/4266 that I was testing were working worse.

I'm not even counting how many memory kits I've tested. I still have 6x Samsung B kits. For example I have 3x G.Skill kits because all of them can make tight timings and up to DDR4-5000+ while many other kits had problems with that. Soon I will sell 3 Samsung B kits as I'm not using them at all. One of them I bought when B-die shortage started and Samsung said they stop manufacturing this IC. I only tested it once and it's collecting dust since then. I have to get rid of that since they still have some value.

Recently I have more fun with other IC as Samsung B is on the market for so long, it's simply boring. I also see no point in buying 2x8GB kits for daily usage considering current prices and barely any performance gain compared to other IC. Making a stock of memory kits is even worse idea as prices are going down, 2x8GB isn't interesting for many users, new platforms are starting to get better results in dual-rank configurations and even those few left extreme overclockers are hunting for dual-rank Samsung B nowadays. Not to mention that we can expect DDR5 in a couple of months.

 

[GrimReaper85]

I was looking at these 3 kits yesterday, should be best bins apart from 3600 CL15, 4133 CL17 and 4400/4600/4800 CL18:
https://www.computeruniverse.net/en...dr4-k2-16gtznb-ram-multicoloured-illumination
https://www.computeruniverse.net/en/gskill-trident-z-neo-16gb-ddr4-k2-ram-multicoloured-illumination
https://www.computeruniverse.net/en/gskill-trident-z-rgb-16gb-ddr4-kit-ram
Like you said about 4133 (probably CL17), I was also thinking 4000 CL17 might be the worst of all 3.

But I see here nothing particularly interesting for me:
https://www.overclockers.com/forums...-Neo-2x8GB-DDR4-3600-CL14-F4-3600C14D-16GTZNB
DDR4-4000 CL14-15-15-35 1.55V (I can do it 1.45V already, actually same as 4000 CL15, so I don't even consider this 4000 CL14)
DDR4-4200 CL16-16-16-36 1.50V (I can do it 1.45V already)

As I thought, it's still down to silicon lottery. These XMPs on 200-250€ kits are nothing 3200 CL14 and 3600 CL16 kits can't do.

But 3600 CL15 1.35V it seems these cheap kits can't do. I presume they are stable with at most 1.30V if not less, my 3 kits need around 1.35V. So should be one of the best bins and were also cheap at the lowest price of 125€ in October. But since then it's very hard to find them, seems they were discontinued.
Can they do 4000 CL14 24/7? I doubt it. I guess I will just have to settle with 4000 CL15. It's not like it's of any importance for everyday use. I was on 1600 CL9 instead of 1600 7-8-8 for 3 years after the weird degradation. I was pushing only max 1.625V and 1.50V 24/7, but it was 1.20V stock, maybe some special IC which didn't like high voltage, I will probably never know. Like I noticed the difference outside the benchmarks. And I didn't even notice it for 2 years, it just BSOD in a few games I played, shows how much I really need the computer power.

I already thought about 32GB and DDR5. But both are too soon to be of much use to me. I was thinking upgrading more to Meteor Lake. I just bought these components in October, so even 2-2,5 years will not be much compared to previous 2500K with almost 10 years.

 

[Woomack]

When I say in my reviews that memory works at some clock, timings and for example 1.45V then it doesn't mean that 1.45V is the lowest it can run. I simply don't have time to test everything between some settings so I use +/- 0.05V. These tests are to show what a random kit can do, but it always highly depends on the test platform and luck to IC.
One more thing is that memory kit can make more or less but its voltages and timings also depend on used CPU/IMC and motherboard. What I noticed is that Samsung B works better on Intel motherboards. On AMD, it usually runs at a lower maximum clock and needs a bit more relaxed timings and higher voltages. All my reviews in the last months were made on AMD but also in the last months I reviewed only 2 Samsung B kits, mentioned TridentZ Neo 3600 CL14 and Patriot Blackout 4400 CL18.

Linked G.Skill Neo 3600 CL14 is the best you can get. The same the 4000/4133 CL17 is the best you can get but 4133/4266 CL19 is already let's say above average but usually not the best.
You can search for something else but you won't find anything better. To get better overclocking chips you will need a lot of luck, especially in cheaper memory kits. XMP is never showing max OC potential but suggests how IC was binned so at average 3600/3800 CL14, 4000 CL15/17, 4500 CL16/18 regardless of voltages, will be the best. Probably also highly overpriced.

You can't say all about Samsung B after testing it at lower clocks and voltages. You can get a kit that runs at high frequency but won't like tight timings. I had kits that were great at lower voltages but no matter how high voltage I was setting, they couldn't even boot at 4000 CL12 for competitive benching.
I have Patriot Blackout DDR4-4400 CL18 kits that run easier at DDR4-4600+ and more relaxed timings/lower voltages than G.Skill, but I can't run at as low timings as G.Skill, regardless of voltages.

My G.Skill Neo 3600 CL14 runs at 4000 CL14 stable without problems. The same 3200 CL14 Royal or TridentZ(red) 3600 CL15. These 3 kits I'm keeping for now because I couldn't find anything better and my list of tested kits is quite long. I will still consider selling one as I not using it for over a year.

Recently I'm mostly playing with Micron IC. Higher capacities and higher frequencies at lower voltages. Maybe I lose 1FPS in games but somehow I like them more. My better 32GB kits run at 3800 CL14 1.45V and up to 5400+ CL18 1.6V (I have somewhere screenshots from the 5300 CL18 1.55V stability test). 64GB/128GB kits run at 3733 CL14 1.45V and up to 4400 CL18 1.45V.

 

[GrimReaper85]

Thanks for all the info. I decided for F4-3600C14D-16GTZNB. That should keep me satisfied until DDR5 improves and goes down in price.

I actually got a similar answer on G.Skill forums:

DDR4-4000 CL15, 17, CL19, DDR4-3600 CL14, DDR4-3800 CL14, these will be the top bins for OC.

3800 C14 is 30€ more and has +0.05V and +1 tRCD and tRP, so it shouldn't be any better. Same goes for the rest of them. Only other that got my interest is F4-3600C15D-16GTZ, but I gave up finding it.

One thing about that TeamGroup, it's 48mm. It wouldn't fit under NH-D14. 44,4mm Patriot Viper Steel is the max I can insert at an angle in second slot without disassembling the cooler. I did some quick image comparison and it seems Z490 Tomahawk (and probably any Z490) has slots moved by half a slot to the left compared to P67. Just enough that you can't insert modules in second slot straight down.

 

[Woomack]

3600 CL14 kits have voltages of 1.45-1.50V for all brands who decided to release them. In reality, most can work at ~1.40V.
From Team Group, most users have better luck with the Dark Pro series. It's also not as tall as Xtreem and at least for me looks better. However, most of these kits are discontinued. In the EU can get an 8Pack edition - https://www.overclockers.co.uk/team...3600mhz-dual-channel-kit-black-my-001-8p.html
Team Group is giving a range of voltages for these "top" series so there is 1.45-1.50V on the label. DDR4-3600 CL16-16-16 has 1.35-1.40V on the label, like my 2x16GB kit but it still runs at 3800 CL16-16-16 1.35V. Let's say above average kit but not really special. With Team Group is like they are not binning IC as good as G.Skill so as far as many run great, then you can get a pretty average kit too.

The best results are on some specific motherboard series and really, there are not so many of them. I usually stick with ITX motherboards for memory overclocking but they're limited to 2 memory slots. I was a bit disappointed with MSI Z490I Unify but it was still good up to ~4866 and better than most ATX motherboards (from MSI only ATX Unify is better). It also doesn't like some memory series. ASRock Z490 motherboards could run higher with most IC. From ASUS the best is ROG (not Strix or anything lower) but they cost a lot and the performance gain is usually not worth the higher price.

 

[freeagent]

I have a set of Royals and a set of Black and Whites that I bought a couple of months ago, the Royals give the B+W a good spank. They run faster and tighter, with less voltage. The B+Ws are ok, I don't know what they can do because I am hooked on dual rank performance so have not run them on their own yet. I really have to lean on this thing to get 2 sticks to perform close to 4 sticks, and even then I cant make up the difference completely, but can get close.

I am considering getting another set of Royals, but I think too much time has gone by not sure if I would get the same bin or not.. My current Royals can do 3800 14-14-14 with 1.5v, my B+W cannot with same voltage.

 

[GrimReaper85]

How does dual rank OC, I presume 4000 CL14 is out of the question? I guess 3600 CL14 or 4000 16, maybe also 3600 CL13 or 4000 CL15.
99% are probably 2x16GB and not 2x8GB, so I don't really get why everyone has to say dual rank instead of simply 32GB/2x16GB.
G.Skill 3600 14-15-15-35 1.45V should again be one of the best.
It's the worst time for buying RAM anyway, it went like 30% up in price in last few months and in a few months DDR5 will be out.

I also presumed Royals should be better binned than Ripjaws or TridentZ, by replies in this topic they really should be better. Like in most things, you can't really go wrong if you buy more expensive stuff.

Not many reviews here, this 3200 CL15 got 3600 14-14-14 1.55V, but not 4000 CL16:
https://www.overclockers.com/forums...t-Z-2x16GB-DDR4-3200-CL15-F4-3200C15D-32GTZSK

And Techpowerup 21st January 2021 review of Royal 4000 17-18-18, got 3600 CL16 and 3600 CL14 (I guess he means that by Ryzen calculator fast preset).

 

[Woomack]

The linked kit was reviewed ages ago (mid-2016). You can't compare results on totally different platforms. Back then, it was hard to even boot at 4000+ with any DDR4. I assume that if I still had this kit then it would run at 4000+ without issues on new motherboards.

My last review with Samsung B 2x16GB is this - https://www.overclockers.com/forums...on-2x16GB-DDR4-3600-CL16-TDPPD416G3600HC16GBK
However, it was made on the motherboard that didn't really like this memory. On ASUS/Ryzen motherboards it needs lower voltages for the same settings and runs up to 4000 CL14 or 4200 CL16 (on Ryzen I'm not even testing CL15) but as I remember something around 1.5V. It had a weird wall at DDR4-4200 and couldn't even boot past that. Pretty much the same as TG Xtreem 2x8GB 4133 CL18 had at 4266 on most motherboards while only on ASUS ROG could run at 4500.

Dual rank modules OC worse but it's because of higher density and also memory controllers. The same is with any IC. When you look at Micron B then you can set 3600-3800 CL14 on 16GB and 32GB modules and even run 128GB kit at 3600-3800 CL14 but dual rank won't really pass ~4266 while single rank will go up to 5000+.

 

[GrimReaper85]

Yesterday I actually got 4400 CL19 working. Just the one stick though. If 2 won't work, it's down to my 10600K's bad IMC. 1.42V, VCCSA 1.45V and VCCIO 1.25V. These are absolutely lowest voltages, didn't work with SA 1.40V and IO 1.20V.

I will also try 4400 CL18 and CL17, should probably work as there's enough headroom up to 1.55V.

But these voltages seem quite high to me and I know my IMC might degrade a little, I hope no more than 0.2V. DDR4 OC guides recommend max 1.25V or 1.30V. And this CPU is not even listed on Patriot's site, only 10900K. I don't expect to have this CPU for more than 2 years anyway and 4000-4200 should work even after 0.05V degradation, now it needs 1.25V. So far I was at SA 1.40-1.45V for around 4 hours.

 

[Woomack]

Most DDR4 OC guides are worthless. Most reviewers or those who write magical guides on the web have no idea about RAM or overclocking.
Btw. for some reason 9th gen processors had everything past 1.45V SA marked in BIOS as red and 1.65V marked as "can instantly kill the CPU". 10th gen processors have the red bar set as high as ~1.8V. Both generations have the same IMC. I have no idea how high voltage is still safe as there is no source that will tell you that. I haven't heard about anyone who degraded the CPU running at 1.45V SA but who knows, not all share everything on the web. I was running tests up to 1.8V+ and my CPUs didn't degrade but I'm not recommending that. On 10900K, 1.40-1.45V is enough up to DDR4-4800 (at least on my CPU). On 10500, regardless of SA voltage, my CPU couldn't pass ~4600 and max stable on MSI Z490I Unify was 4533.

 

[freeagent]

I agree. Even Dram calculator was setting things too tight for my setup. I had to learn how to tune by myself. Its not so bad if you have a bunch of free time.

 

[Woomack]

For me sad is when someone is using dram calc for reviews on "respected" websites. Clearly lacks knowledge about RAM which is testing.

 

[freeagent]

I have no knowledge, just wingin it.. I got my first set of DDR4 just before DDR5 was released

You probably know more about my ram then I do. It was your reviews that I read from the mighty Google that ultimately sealed the deal on both of my choices.

Overclocking is the easy part, because you can only do so much with IF.. tuning for efficiency is the interesting part.

Edit:

I cant get it lower than 62.3ns in Aida

 

[GrimReaper85]

I got F4-3600C14D-16GTZNB yesterday. But before installing them, I tried something else.
With my Patriot Viper Steel 4400 CL19, which is an average kit like 3200 CL14 and 3600 CL16, I set all G.Skill XMPs.

my 24/7 stable voltage - G.Skill XMP voltage
3600 15-15-15-35: 1.39V - 1.35V
3600 14-15-15-35: 1.38V - 1.45V
3800 14-16-16-36: 1.44V - 1.50V
4000 15-16-16-36: 1.52V - 1.50V
4000 16-19-19-39: 1.43V - 1.40V
4000 17-17-17-37: 1.36V - 1.35V
4133 17-17-17-37: 1.40V - 1.40V
4266 16-19-19-39: 1.52V - 1.45V
4400 16-19-19-39: not stable up to 1.55V - 1.50V
4400 17-18-18-38: 1.48V - 1.50V
4400 18-19-19-39: 1.41V - 1.40V
4400 19-19-19-39: 1.40V - 1.40V

Worst should be:
3600 14-15-15-35 1.45V
3800 14-16-16-36 1.50V

Even non-B F4-3600C14D-16GTZN 1.40V seems to be worse than F4-3600C15D-16GTZ as it's +0.05V. And looking at my results 14-15-15 is even easier to run than 15-15-15, probably down to even CL, it can be just on my motherboard.
I just hope 1.45V B one is actually good as you say. Still, should be worse than both previous mentioned ones. But those are discontinued anyway, so no harm. It's only about next ones which are cheaper or not much more expensive.

Something in the middle should be:
4000 15-16-16-36 1.50V
4000 16-19-19-39 1.40V
4000 17-17-17-37 1.35V
4133 17-17-17-37 1.40V
4400 17-18-18-38 1.50V
4400 18-19-19-39 1.40V
4400 19-19-19-39 1.40V

F4-4000C16D-16GVK 4000 16-19-19-39 1.40V looks very interesting and it's only 160€. It should also work straight 16 or at least 16-17-17 as it's B-Die.
F4-4000C15D-16GVK 4000 15-16-16-36 1.50V is also listed on Geizhals for only 171€. Should be same bin as previous one.
F4-4000C17D-16GTZR 4000 17-17-17-37 1.35V is 243€, so not that interesting. Unless it's really better than 3600 14-15-15-35.

Top should be:
3600 15-15-15-35 1.35V
4266 16-19-19-39 1.45V
4400 16-19-19-39 1.50V

All 3 are discontinued. I actually regretted not buying F4-3600C15D-16GTZ back in October 2020. And it was also very cheap, only 120€ and 3600 CL16 was 100€. But yesterday I saw this post:
https://www.overclockers.com/forums...5-Ryzen-3000?p=8131612&viewfull=1#post8131612
It seems they don't make it since 2017. It was just our local web store with a listing. Beginning of year I ordered it, but they said it's not available for order anymore. In last few days they removed the listing.

 

[GrimReaper85]

So far I have mixed feelings about F4-3600C14D-16GTZNB. I expected it would do 4000 14-14-14-34. Separate sticks probably do it, but dual channel one guy on OC Reddit already said it's hard to run and that he needs 1.60V and for 4000 15-15-15 1.45V which my 4 best sticks out of 8 also do.
Then as Woomack already said, 3600 14-15-15-35 has a lot of headroom, works 1.32V. So should even be same bin as non-B 16GTZN 1.40V.
4000 14-15-15-35 is also no problem, needs 1.46V. So this kit is simplest to OC if this is your goal, just increase frequency by 400 MHz and you're done.
I can also say 3800 14-16-16-36 should be exactly the same bin, mine also work 1.39V instead of XMP 1.50V.
So as I said before these 2 are the worst, maybe just by looking at their XMP voltage, but in reality they're the same as the other best G.Skill bins. 0.11-0.13V headroom, who does that? Maybe at first they had problems with 1.40V, so they discontinued 16GTZN, then later Samsung IC improved in quality again, but can't really bring back EOL model, so they just used existing 16GTZNB. Or it may be they still have problems getting it down to 1.40V and only let's say half make it, so best to just use 1.45V.

Rest are (second is G.Skill's XMP voltage):
3600 15-15-15-35 - 1.32V / 1.35V - well known to be G.Skill's best bin, so to be expected 14-15-15 1.45V is worse. Or maybe 3600 15-15-15 also doesn't work at least 1.30V, but that would be very strange, or not for a high binned kit, what do I know. Maybe you Woomack can test this.
4000 17-17-17-37 - 1.30V / 1.35V - should be same bin
4133 17-17-17-37 - 1.34V / 1.40V - should be same bin
4000 15-16-16-36 - 1.47V / 1.50V - should be better bin or just very tightly set voltage, they didn't want to go 1.55V or what do I know
4000 16-19-19-39 - 1.37V / 1.40V - not much info on this one, only info I found was today's topic on G.Skill forums, but the guy opened the topic as it doesn't even do XMP (I would say due to too low voltage). This makes me believe these last 2 are very fishy. They're too cheap at 160-170€ to be best bins.
4266 16-19-19-39 - 1.46V / 1.45V - discontinued, was also probably at least 300€

I see I was actually right on many points earlier today by just testing an average kit like Patriot 4400 CL19.
I will do 4400 XMPs tomorrow.

I don't know what to recommend to other people. This F4-3600C14D-16GTZNB seems good, but it's now at 230€. For this money you can get two 3600 CL16 or 3200 CL14 kits, which from my limited experience of 2 kits should get you 2 out of 4 good sticks. And then you are left with 2 spare sticks which may not be best for OC, but still very usable. But maybe it's just one good or maybe 3. I very much doubt you can get 4 good sticks with a low bin.

 

[freeagent]

I noticed the lowest latency B-Die is slowly disappearing. I have 2 pairs of 3200C14s. I found my Royals on Amazon for like 500.. I paid about half that with import fees from Newegg. There is a pair of Grey and Whites for 153 I might buy just to have.. Also a pair of RGB ones for 50 more. I don't really know much about DDR4 as I am pretty new, but my Royals outclass my Black and Whites. They can run faster, tighter, and with less voltage. They are everything stable at 1900 14-14-14-34 1T 1.5v, and can bench them a little at 2200 16-16-16-36 1T 1.55v.. They have been to 4600 with the same timings and voltage but something wasn't very happy.. could probably use more voltage but meow. I didn't spend much time up there..

Looks like DDR5 is coming

 

[GrimReaper85]

I also ordered F4-4000C15D-16GVK 4000 15-16-16-36 1.50V yesterday. Should be the best for running tight 4000.
F4-3600C14D-16GTZNB is also good, but XMP has such high voltage of 1.45V, you don't really have any guarantee it will run tight. Should be 1.35V to be really good bin. My 1.32V is not bad, but I could just be lucky.
I am also interested in F4-4000C16D-16GVK 4000 16-19-19-39 1.40V. Should also be better than F4-3600C14D-16GTZNB, even 2x16GB dual rank goes 4000 15-16-16 1.45V, and that is with tweaked subtimings:
https://www.overclockers.com/g-skill-trident-z-royal-series-32gb-ddr4-4000-review/
I don't know about 4000 17-17-17-37 1.35V, shouldn't be better than above 3.

For 4000 14-14-14 I think I should just try 1.60V. None of the mentioned kits should do it below that. I don't think even the best one F4-3600C15D-16GTZ does it. Maybe a few samples, like 10%.
For now I have the best results with F4-3600C14D-16GTZNB, 3900 14-14-14 1.48V. And I'm very close to stability with 4000 1.55V, Prime stable 10-15min. I think 1.60V should do it.
And just the one stick of F4-3200C14D-16GVR does 3900 14-14-14 1.45V and 4000 14-14-14 1.51V.

 

[GrimReaper85]

I just found I had this review already bookmarked:
https://www.overclockers.com/g-skill-trident-z-neo-for-amd-x570/
F4-3600C16D-16GTZN
Test Case 1 ~ 4400 MHz CL16-16-16-16 + XMP Sub Timings @ 1.45 V
Test Case 2 ~ 3600 MHz CL13-12-12-12 + Tight Sub Timings @ 1.45 V
Test Case 3 ~ 4000 MHz CL14-14-14-14 + Tight Sub Timings @ 1.50 V

But that's pure luck as it's impossible this model is binned that high. But it at least gives me hope 4000 14-14-14 is possible with normal voltage, before I wasn't really sure.
It should also be dependant only on how good memory IC is. CPU certainly makes no difference here. And motherboard also shouldn't be the bottleneck as now with better ICs I am very close to stability.
Anyway, that is my goal for DDR4. I can buy one more kit, but that's it then. Too bad no one simply made 4000 14-14-14 kit. Only Colorful announced one, but what are they waiting, DDR5 will be out around July.
Closest is 4000 15-16-16-36 1.50V, it should work that with max 1.45V. It should also work 4000 14-15-15-35 with the same voltage. I still don't know how this is possible. But tRDC and tRP 16 are certainly not the bottleneck here. And I guess both 14-15-15 and 15-15-15 require the same voltage. Here I would say the tRDC and tRP 15 is the real bottleneck, and not tCL 14 and 15. It should be easy to test that theory with 19-15-15, 14-19-19 and 15-19-19.
I already know 4000 16-16-16 and 16-19-19 are the same, also 4266 16-16-16 and 16-19-19. Still don't know why they had to go with such high tRDC and tRP in their XMPs, makes no sense to me as bottleneck here is clearly tCL 16. tRDC and tRP 16 require the same or a little less, will try 19-16-16 to check that.

I think 4000 15-16-16-36 1.50V and 4000 16-19-19-39 1.40V are the same bin. With my Patriot and Neo I got the same difference of 0.1V. But if I have to wonder this, I'm quite sure I will also buy the 4000 16-19-19-39.
I know it's hard to tell the difference in bins with just one kit of each, would probably need at least 10, and not bought at the same time. It's a shame B-Die bin guide is not already written as I read some guy on Reddit binned 100 kits.

If none of these do 4000 CL14 I will just settle for 4200 CL15. It's even better for Intel, it is said +200 MHz and +1 CL should be the same, but you get bigger bandwidth.