Have the rules just changed?

[n2]

this could possibly break so many of the basic laws we have....
from x-bit labs:
NVIDIA Introduces nForce core logic [12:15 pm] Gavric
The époque when integrated core logic was associated with low-performance systems seems to be over. Today NVIDIA announced the availability of its first core logic set nForce. We assume that if NVIDIA starts shipping it in mass at a moderate price, this will be just a revolutionary chipset. To support these words, let us place and comment on nForce key characteristics:

It supports AMD Athlon/Duron CPUs with 200/266MHz bus. NVIDIA has already created nForce for Intel’s processors as well, but it can’t launch this version until it gets a corresponding license from Intel.
It supports up to 1.5GB PC2100/PC1600 SDRAM. In nForce there is a revolutionary TwinBank memory controller which allows to work with the memory by means of a 128bit bus. The core idea of this controller is to unite two independent memory controllers with a 64bit bus. Subsequently, that will increase the memory bus bandwidth till 4.2GB/sec when the system has two and more DIMMs, and the memory latency will be significantly reduced due to the interleaving of controllers requests. The chipset doesn’t support ECC.
DASP technology. Thanks to the DASP technology (Dynamic Adaptive Speculative Pre-Processor), nForce can initially predict what data from memory will used later and place it in an intermediate built-in cache. This allows for more memory latency reduction.
GeForce2 MX integrated graphics core. This graphics core working at 175MHz is built on SMA architecture and is connected with the memory controllers via internal AGP 8x interface. The memory bus bandwidth is higher than that of the CPU bus (with 128bit memory access), so the integrated graphics core is not slowed down by the memory bus like it is in all the other integrated chipsets. As a result, the core is close to conventional GeForce2 MX graphics cards performance. Its built-in RAMDAC works at 300MHz.
It supports external AGP 4x graphics cards.
AMD HyperTransport technology is supported. To connect the North (IGP, Integrated Graphics Processor) and the South (MCP, Media Communication Processor) Bridges, NVIDIA makes use of a high-performance HyperTransport bus boasting a bandwidth of 800MB/sec.
An audio processor unit (APU) is built in. The APU supports 6-channel sound and Dolby Digital. It helps the central processor unit being responsible all the sound processing tasks.
10/100Mbit Ethernet support. Thanks to HyperTransport, nForce provides continuous isochronous Ethernet data processing.
HomePNA, Software modem support.
ATA-100 support.
Six USB ports are supported.
A single look at the impressive list of nForce’s capabilities (such as the fast 128bit memory interface and the DASP technology) is enough to take this chipset as the fastest DDR solution for Athlon platforms.
The first mainboards based on NVIDIA nForce will be introduced by ASUS, MSI, Gigabyte, ABIT and Mitac.


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whether this board is bug-free or not, could change how we view integration, DDR, Nvidia, and so many other things... 6channel sound!!!!
this sounds amazingly like a dream, yet also could turn out a nightmare.

 

[asmodean]

The sound is 5.1, I bet. There's no point in having 6 channels, if one of them isn't for the subwoofer.

As stated somewhere (was it Eds article?), you definitely DON'T want 1 or 3 DIMMS, it won't use the "TwinBus" stuff.
I wonder, why didn't they put a GF2PRO core there, instead of the slow MX one...
And the memoryspeed for graphics? Hm... The memories must be PC2400 and the FSB @133 or more, before there's any point in using it the built-in video controller.

We'll see when it comes out, if it's good for anything.

 

[David]

sounds good

 

[bruce]

It sounds great, so why are the articles on the OC homepage peeing on Nvidia's parade? They are saying that Nvidia hasen't done this before, of course they have, HELLO, has anybody heard of the X-box? I think they will more than likely incorperate other GPU's on the motherboard, kinda like different flavors, but I doubt we'll see a GF3 GPU on a crush board for a little while, so they don't interfere with X-box sales. The sound from what I've read is 5.1, 256 2-D voice, and 64 3-D voice. Whether it initally proves to be "all that" or not, at least it is a step in the right direction, unlike Willy! Also given Nvidia's track record, it will eventually prove to be "all that" and eventually, possibly dominate the market, and we won't have to worry about support, since detinator drivers come out on like a weekly basis, drivers won't be a problem. I for one am excited about this, and I'm pretty sure it will eventually live up to all the hype, even if not at launch, again probably not to hurt X-Box sales. Just my 2 cents...

 

[n2]

[Oc]asmodean (Jun 05, 2001 09:16 a.m.):
The sound is 5.1, I bet. There's no point in having 6 channels, if one of them isn't for the subwoofer.
Good point there, i'm an audio buff, and have'nt heard of anything utilizing 6 channels... can't even rationalize this one, aside from considering this:
center<1>, front<2>, rear<2>, and a stereo or dual sub... as in 5.1 the .1 being a mono channel, perhaps they've given us two mono or one stereo?
i think this is unlikely, more likely it's some kind of hype, but anyways...

As stated somewhere (was it Eds article?), you definitely DON'T want 1 or 3 DIMMS, it won't use the "TwinBus" stuff.
this is something i'd have to look more into, as i'm not all that familiar... however, the promise of DDR seems to become a bit more realistic when you consider this piece of hardware's transfer ability.

"I wonder, why didn't they put a GF2PRO core there, instead of the slow MX one..."

Probably to keep production costs down, as to give end consumers a lower bottom line. i would assume the low price point as to make a impact, to sell, as well as to compete, not to mention expecting some flaws wherein a higher buy$ would = more hesitant buyers.

perhaps we can expect a higher level board to follow this one. i'd say that if this is all it's promised to be, and the initial product has few bugs, which do get fixed, the higher end and/or next phase could be totally amazing!

"And the memoryspeed for graphics? Hm... The memories must be PC2400 and the FSB @133 or more, before there's any point in using it the built-in video controller."

depends on the user... for many that's overkill... and for alot of them, probably not even noticeable... eh'?

"We'll see when it comes out, if it's good for anything.

"

i'm really anticipating this! i still don't like the thought of integration, but i do like the thought of quality components, "seemingly" designed to work in conjunction with one another to achieve better performance than the norm.

 

[n2]

wtf bother with an Xbox?
i hope nobody buys it!
and why don't ppl learn after things like the dreamcast flop... to stay away?
need i mention webtv? and so figure because of this pending crap...
we have been put on the backburner to anticipate more pending crap.
or possibly a revolution!!

and i agree, seems you can't go wrong with Nvidia's stuff,
i hope it stays true!

 

[Rob Cork]

I think the point that Ed was making was that Nvidia seem to be aiming for a very short development cycle for this chipset - it's supposed to be ready in just a few months when mobo manufacturers have only just begun work on it. With the XBox, Nvidia concerned themselves only with graphics, something we can all agree they have unparalleled experience with. However, they have never had to develop a mainboard chipset before, which will have to do a lot more than just provide graphics. Because of Nvidia's inexperience in this field and the short development cycle I wouldn't be surprised if it isn't properly ready by the expected date, in which case Nvidia will either have to release a buggy version or delay production - and lets face it, as with seemingly all technology companies their track record in releasing products on time is not exactly perfect.

As for the inclusion of a GF2 MX chipset rather than the full GF2 Pro - Nvidia still want people to buy graphics cards, that's their main business and always will be. Presumably Nvidia will begin marketing the GF2 as more of a budget card, and considering this mainboard is aimed at the budget market noone would have to buy the GF2 if they already had it on their mobo!

For all I know nforce may be just as revolutionary as it aims to be when released - I'll just wait and see, I'm not going to get all excited about it.

 

[bruce]

No, with the X-Box Nvidia designed pretty much the whole thing, the sound is NVidia, the Graphics are Nvidia, the Design and controllers are Nvidia, the only thing Intel did for the X-Box was sell some P-3's, and Nvidia used AMD's Hypertransport Technology... FYI the CEO of Nvidia used to work for AMD way back in the day, go ahead and check their website (investor realtions, and CEO background), also if you notice, people were upset but no one screamed bloody murder when 3dfx started making their own cards, something they had no experience with, but everyone is so skeptical of Nvidia designing a motherboard chipset, which is probably not too foreign from building a graphics chipset, Nvidia has expanded it's market, but it's still rooted in chipsets, and that is something they tend to excel in. They also have tons of talent from all sorts of companies including 3dfx, and a 3D graphics chipset is not all that easy to design either, ask ATI, well it's late and I'm rambling on, as you can tell I'm an Nvidia fan, but I've owned ATI, and 3dfx, but the only card I've been really happy with is my GeForce DDR... I'll flame some more later, goodnight....

 

[n2]

i agree with you Bruce,
i've owned ATI, 3Dfx, Via, Matrox, etc...
i love nVidia as quality components, and as product support.
whereas all the previously mentioned comapnies are lacking... and/or DOA!
thats exactly why i can see some SERIOUS change on the horizon.
i can admit to believing that crush can, and will be something good, if not great... as a viable alternative to the current trends.
that being,
(A) $100 vid card, $100 sound, $150 mobo... and Via chipset
(B) $79 mobo, cheap shared vid, cheap sound.. and Via chipset
now if nVidia comes in under $200 with this thing, i'd be likely to use this board quite frequently, unless RAID config was required.

reason i say Via, as i searched for alternatives in building this box, the only choice i seemed to have was the KT133A, in using a Duron and SDRAM along with ATA100 and 266mhz support.