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Help a girl out with my new build that's crashing!!

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CthulhuAttack

Registered
Joined
Feb 24, 2018
Hi all, any help you can give me with my (relatively) new build would be much appreciated!

First off, I'll explain the issue I've been having. I built a new HTPC a couple of years ago now, and soon after began having problems. Whenever I was playing a game or watching video in 1080p or higher resolution (or HEVC of any resolution), the PC would just randomly restart, freeze or blue screen. Sometimes it would restart without blue screening, other times it would freeze, and probably least frequently I would receive the BSoD.

I immediately suspected the RAM, so I pulled all but 2 sticks, took out all unnecessary cards/devices, and tested (same issue)....then replaced those two sticks with others and tested again. No luck.

My next thought was power supply. So I purchased a new power supply and tested. Same issue.

Next, I pulled the entire build apart, reassembled everything, and tested again. Same issue.

Flashed New BIOS. Nope.

Checked all BIOS settings. Set everything extremely conservatively. Still problems.

Reinstalled Windows and drivers. Same issue.

Replaced the hard drive. No luck.

At this point I began to suspect it was the video card. I decided to wait to purchase a new card (I wanted to go high end), so the build basically sat around for over a year until recently I purchased a new video card (not really the one I wanted, but just a decent card to test my theory). I had been wanting to play some new games (Life Is Strange - Before the Storm, Walking Dead Season 3, Thimbleweed Park etc....I know, I know, I'm a huge nerd with my adventure games) and waiting was driving me crazy! I pulled everything apart, reassembled everything from the ground up, cleaned the dust out, added a new exhaust fan over some of the empty PCI slots, and replaced the video card, using a different x16 slot. Reinstalled Windows, reflashed the BIOS. Upon finishing the rebuild, everything ran fine for several days to the point I thought I had solved the problem. The last couple days, however, it has begun the restarting again. I has also blue screened once. It is not doing it while playing video now, however (yet). Only when playing games or installing games. It did it for the first time while installing Life Is Strange, and took me 4 tries before I could finish a successful install. So I (as in the past) ran a Prime95 torture test and had no issues, something I find really strange.

My current build is as follows:

Windws 7 Ultimate
EVGA E760 Classified MB
Intel Core i7 920
12 GB Corsair Dominator GT DDR3 2000 RAM
Corsair H50 CPU Cooler (2 fans in push-pull config)
XFX Radeon RX 580 (Replaced MSI Geforce GTX 275 Lightning card)
Corsair Neutron GTX 120 GB SDD (Replaced WD VelociRaptor)
Asus Xonar D2 Sound Card
Corsair HX-Series 1000W PSU

At this point I thought (since I used a LUXA2 HTPC case) that temps might be the issue. While everything is running slightly warm, it doesn't appear near high enough to be causing the issues. For example, the CPU sits around 50C idle and hits 70C at highest. Is that high enough to cause crashes? At this point, I really am at a loss. The fact that it is more stable since replacing the video card but still restarts while gaming has me baffled. As a last ditch effort, I removed it from the entertainment center (where I give it lots of room and use it with the door open anyway), put it on the coffee table, left the top of the case off, and pointed a house fan directly into the chassis. And still had multiple restarts whilst trying to play Life Is Strange - Before the Storm (on medium graphics settings) with a friend tonight. Although when it has been off for some time it seems to take awhile before it begins to have issues, then they become more frequent.

I think that's everything. Thank you so much in advance for taking the time to read this and help a girl out. I'm thinking it may be time to just trash this system and rebuild from scratch. At this point, I'm thinking it has to be the MB or CPU. Which must have been bad all along and I'm an idiot for not figuring it out sooner and RMA'ing the cursed thing. Thoughts? Ideas? Am I a dummy?
 

Alaric

New Member
Joined
Dec 4, 2011
Location
Satan's Colon, US
Did you use DDU or a similar utility to completely clear out all the old Nvidia drivers? If not, I would do so and uninstall all graphics drivers, AMD and Nvidia. Reboot and install the latest AMD drivers. If the problem persists, then I would check the RAM one stick at a time in each slot. If you have 4 sticks check each one by itself in slot one, then slot 2, etc.. Try setting Windows Power Plan to High Performance and use Device Manager to go through everything and make sure to uncheck every box that allows Windows to turn the device off to save power. Reset CMOS and leave everything at default for testing. Check Event Viewer for clues and try swapping SATA cables, checking the OS drive's S.M.A.R.T. status with any other drives unplugged.

And, given the age of the components, do a visual inspection of the motherboard to look for any obvious clues or potential damage (leaking or bulging capacitors, discoloration from heat, scorch marks, etc..)
 
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OP
CthulhuAttack

CthulhuAttack

Registered
Joined
Feb 24, 2018
Thanks for the response!

I did not use a utility to clear Nvidia drivers because I actually did a fresh Windows install when I installed the new video card, so the latest AMD drivers were installed on a brand new Windows install. I also flashed the BIOS and reset CMOS before doing the fresh Windows install.

Tested the RAM individually as suggested multiple times. Still had the issue with bare-bones system and no matter what sticks of RAM were installed.

Tested with fresh Windows installs on two different functioning HDDs.

Rebuilt everything from the ground up twice after the initial build problems using completely different cables each time.

No indications of issues in S.M.A.R.T. status.

Motherboard has been inspected. No visual blemishes. Even when all components were brand new out of the box, these issues occurred. The PC has never worked properly.

Event viewer shows a different obscure failure each time. No indication of what is actually happening.
First common error is Application - LoadPerf - 3002
Second is Application - Application Error - 1000
Third is Application - SideBySide - 33

Have not gone through Device Manager and unchecked options to turn off devices to save power. Will check that out today.
 

Mr.Scott

Beamed Me Up!
Joined
Jun 9, 2013
Your H50 is not enough cooler for that 920. ;)
You should be idling in the 30's and loading in the 60's if you're not overclocking.
 

trents

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 27, 2008
So I'm asking this of the forum members helping you. I'm wondering what the capability of the Core i7's IMC is. You are running the RAM at 2000 mhz. Is that correct? Tripple channel. Correct? What happens if you back off to say 1866 or 1600 mhz? It could be that the IMC is being overtaxed. I would also try Alaric's suggestion of testing each memory stick in each slot.

But switching gears here, the one component you have not swapped out or made changes to is the motherboard. Process of elimination.

And I'm with Mr. Scott. The 50c idle temp is fishy. The fact that the instability only happens under heaviest load is also a helpful dx factor. You say your max load temp is 70c. What software are you using for temp readouts?

What happens if you stress the system say with something like Prime95?
 
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OP
CthulhuAttack

CthulhuAttack

Registered
Joined
Feb 24, 2018
I just blue screened at an idle CPU temp of 50C only 5 minutes after turning the PC on. I'm a little surprised an H50 in push/pull with massive fans isn't enough to cool the CPU. But would I really be crashing due to overheating at 50C? I'm using EVGA's Windows overclocking utility to monitor temps.

I'm running the RAM at 1866.

I have tested the RAM in pairs and every other config imaginable several times. The board will not post with only one stick in single channel. I believe it was a common issue with the Classified board.

I have run multiple Prime95 tests and never had a crash, so it isn't really only while under heavy load it crashes. It is only while doing certain things and under heavy load.

- - - Updated - - -

And thanks for all the help everyone! The ideas are very much appreciated! As was said before, I'm beginning to think the MB has been faulty from the beginning and I was an idiot not to RMA immediately back when I initially purchased it.
 

Mandrake4565

Mr. Clean Senior Member
Joined
Jan 12, 2012
Just thinking out loud, everything has been replaced except the Board and Processor correct? Any of the peripherals been changed and or the sound card you mentioned? Do you have a stock heatsink or another after market heatsink you can try?
 
OP
CthulhuAttack

CthulhuAttack

Registered
Joined
Feb 24, 2018
Yes, everything has been replaced other than MB and CPU. When testing I pulled sound card and all non-essential parts. Still had the same issue. At one point I believe I threw a large Asus air cooler on the CPU and still had the issue. It still seemed to run hot, even with the case open and a house fan blowing into the chassis. Even immediately upon boot, it runs in the high 40s.
 

maxfly

Member
Joined
May 7, 2005
i agree, the mb is all thats left :( there is still plenty of life left in your 920, if in fact it isnt the problem. i would see if getting a new mb is cost effective or not. if not it may be time to upgrade.
id also add that while the case your using looks sweet it just doesnt allow ANY air to come in. there arent any vents or holes anywhere except the spots for the exhaust fans. if your dead set on keeping it. it may be a good idea to mod the top. add a 120 or 140mm fan externally mounted so you have some air coming in. you could try reversing the exhaust fans but im afraid your going to end up in the same boat with no where for the heated air to go. good luck!
 

wingman99

Member
Joined
Dec 10, 2003
I would replace the processor for faults and errors. The motherboard only has to deliver stable voltage to the processor after boot-up. Where did you get the CPU and motherboard components?
 
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Lochekey

Senior Pink Member
Joined
Sep 13, 2015
I would replace the processor for faults and errors. The motherboard only has to deliver stable voltage to the processor after boot-up.

I agree that trying a different cpu could be a good troubleshooting step but I would not rule out the motherboard. There could be issues with the memory traces, or the onboard chipset, or even something wrong going on in the vrm. There is to many unknown variables to rule out tree motherboard at this point.
 

trents

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 27, 2008
With having to invest in either a replacement motherboard or CPU or both to troubleshoot this (and they would likely be used components at that) I think it's time to invest in some more up to date new components. So far what you have spent on replacement parts is not wasted because you can use them in another build. And you can sell either of the video cards you have and recoup most of your money because the mining craze has kept the prices up. But I certainly would not invest in old used stuff. So you need to get a newer motherboard, CPU and DDR 4 RAM and you should be good to go.
 

UltraTaco

Member
Joined
Oct 28, 2017
Uh, to run 2ghz ram, IMC has to be at least 4ghz!!! How much VTT are you giving it? Just to give you an idea, on mine

3135mhz = vtt 1.284
3600mhz = vtt 1.4 and still unstable!!

Also, on i7, if uncore doesn't have enough vtt by little bit, you can have prime run 4 hours and only then it can crash. It doesn't always crash unless you seriously have stuff undervolted.

I also ran prime blend mode 20 hours and it passed, but running only large fft and it would crap out at 3-4 hours consistently. Also IBT errors after like half hour. It was when I had vtt1.275 and thought it was stable because prime blend passed 20 hours, but turned out it was not truly stable.
 

trents

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 27, 2008
Uh, to run 2ghz ram, IMC has to be at least 4ghz!!! How much VTT are you giving it? Just to give you an idea, on mine

3135mhz = vtt 1.284
3600mhz = vtt 1.4 and still unstable!!

Also, on i7, if uncore doesn't have enough vtt by little bit, you can have prime run 4 hours and only then it can crash. It doesn't always crash unless you seriously have stuff undervolted.

I also ran prime blend mode 20 hours and it passed, but running only large fft and it would crap out at 3-4 hours consistently. Also IBT errors after like half hour. It was when I had vtt1.275 and thought it was stable because prime blend passed 20 hours, but turned out it was not truly stable.

UT, I'm not sure what you're talking about. I know of no CPU IMC rate for 4 ghz. That era Intel CPU was probably rated for around 1600 mhz but most CPUs will run memory at least a little faster than their rating without a problem. And OP said she lowered the memory frequency down from 2 ghz and it had no impact on the problem.
 

UltraTaco

Member
Joined
Oct 28, 2017
Trent's, brother sir, have you used i7 920? Uncore has to be at least 2x ram.

Even running ran at 1866, you need already 3732mhz uncore. That will be a hefty vtt on these chips.

**Rated** memory for i7 920 is 800, 1067. 1333 overclock. She wants to run 2000 ram. Please check how much % overclock that is on IMC
 

Mr.Scott

Beamed Me Up!
Joined
Jun 9, 2013
She may never see 2000, but that doesn't mean she can't run the 2000 speed ram slower.
Your experience is skewed anyway because you were trying to run five sticks of mixed bullsh1t ram.

Probably should just stick to the 'thanks' button man.
 

UltraTaco

Member
Joined
Oct 28, 2017
Dear Scott,
I am sure it will be very helpful to OP's troubleshooting if information from a forum member who actually uses that same CPU is being frowned upon. 5 sticks was just a seoprate test. I've run those uncore numbers with new ram too, isolated to just uncore.

CtuluhuthtuAttack, hope you get it sorted. Good luck.
 

Nebulous

Señor Senior, Senior
Joined
Oct 11, 2002
Location
The Empire State
The OP, right off the bat, is asking for alot. They've already made several mistakes:

1) Case- Tho very nice, has really poor to no airflow. Not designed for this type of setup: https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Thermaltake/Luxa2_LM200/4.html
2) RX580 - We all know it's a heater. Heat being dumped right back into the case
3) H50 - Not enough cooling for the 920 heater chip.


No airflow + a heater of a graphics card + a weak AIO cooler = unstable system.

All those funds spent on the new parts for a relic of a platform would have been better spent on a newer/modern platform along with a better suited case for the cooling job needed.

I can keep going on adding to the list of mistakes/fails.
 

trents

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 27, 2008
Yes, Neb but what she has spent so far in trouble shooting can be used in a newer system. The only questionable purchase was the Rx 580 and she could get most of her money back in a resell or keep it and sell the GTX 275 lightening. Bottom line is that OP needs to get a more up to date motherboard/CPU/RAM platform that is more energy efficient and runs cooler. Plus, she does also need better cooling and ventilation which may mean a new case.
 
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