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Hc000

Member
Joined
Nov 11, 2002
I just finished building my computer (first time) and i need some help in over clocking. i have read some of the sticky posts, but some of it is confusing..

Comp Specs
athlon xp 2200+
msi kt4 ultra (viakt400)
256 mb ddr pc2700 crucial
pny gf4 ti4200 (500mhz)
amd approved 300w ps
40gb maxtor hdd (a year old)

rear case fan avg speed 3450 rpm
cpu fan avg speed 5000 rpm (came with retail cpu box)

temps 47 C idle
not sure about full load.. but i think 51-53C

cpu core voltage 1.65

i was wondering how fast i can get my computer to (without unlocking the mutiplyer) default is 133 fsb in the bios i have set it to 137 fsb right now (1850mhz) and i was hoping to get to 2400+ or higher if possible without damaging any of my hardware.
 
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EluSiOn

Member
Joined
Oct 31, 2002
Location
SC, USA
Not much. Your cpu temp consider a bit high already, and also you really need more juicy PS because your GF4 & XP 2200+ really need lots/stable power.

normally people sets their system critical temp at 65c, although AMD XP tb version B's core can tolerate as high as 85c but no one really runs their system over 60c.

You might want to try to change your heatsink to other better ones. And also you a good thermal paste between the cpu and the heatsink (applying it is an art... too much bad.. too little bad... a thin even layer great)

Instead of changing your fsb higher, you might want to set your multiplier higher.... AMD XP 2400+'s default multiplier is 15....
 
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rogerdugans

Linux challenged Senior, not that it stops me...
Joined
Dec 28, 2001
Location
Corner of No and Where
Welcome to the Forums!

But first let me caution you: overclocking your computer is inherently dangerous and will void all your warranties.

You may never break a thing overclocking, especially if you do not go to extremes, but the odds are that you will.
If you can't afford to take the hit for anything that breaks after overclocking I suggest not doing it.

That said, I think its a great hobby :D:D

Your temps are read on-die by that mobo, right? If so they are ok, but a bit higher than you want when overclocking.
If the temp is read by an in-socket thermistor it is very high.

The temp that really counts is the full load temp btw: the hottest it gets is when you will have heat related problems.

The psu may be your other weak point- just because it is "AMD Approved" does NOT mean it is "Overclocker Approved!" We are MUCH pickier than AMD is...:D

You need to know what kind of voltages are getting to your motherboard- software like Mother Board Monitor 5 (MBM5) is one of the most commonly used ones.
It will monitor fan speeds (if possible) temp and voltages.

The most critical voltage with AMD is the 5v line: anything below 4.84v is danger zone, and below 4.9v says that your psu is just about maxed out.

Check that stuff and we'll take it from there:D
 

deathstar13

FSB FRIEK
Joined
Dec 24, 2001
great advise there guys isnt much i can add,but even what Hc000 has i think he could be a prime candidate to just unlock the cpu and crack the fsb upto stock mhz of 1800mhz and let the fsb carry him.shouldnt couse no more heat.and will increase system perfomance alot.

whats a warrenty btw? lmao

its just a suggestion i thought id throw out there that wouldnt couse much disterbance to the system but could get him oced with what he has.

Hc000, 2400 speed is 2ghz.isnt a large group thats got theres their either with a 2200.just take your time.and make small improvements as you go.
 
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Hc000

Member
Joined
Nov 11, 2002
I have PC monitor 4 (got it from msi website) i'm not sure how the tempture is measured tho.. and the i have the 5v @ 4.95v all my other reading isn't where its soupose to be i dunno why...

vcore =1.65
3.3 =3.23 - 3.25
+5 =4.92 - 4.95
+12 =12.3 - 12.4
it changes a bit... but for the most they stay @ the higher voltage

i use the computer mainly for gaming (rtcw or other 3d games) i also keep it on 24/7

i read on THG that 2200+'s max temp is @ 67C , is it good to keep it there? wat is the best temp for 24/7 idleing? and it is winter.. so in a few weeks or so the temp will be alot cooler (my comp is like my radiator :p ) so it might allow me to get it to higher speed. as for getting a new cpu fan, i'm all for it but i do not want to change the heatsink(came with cpu box retail) because i don't want o mess up (took me 3 hours to build my first comp and most of the time is on the cpu..)

i do not want to change the mutiplier and according to amd's math 1800=2200+ 1866=2300+ 1933=2400+ and i have it @ 1850 right now with 51C when i play rtcw so it should do fine (unless it will damage the cpu/other comp hardware)

in one of the sticky i read something about the pci is 1/4 and it can only handle 33mhz but with via kt333 it is 1/5, wat about via kt400 ?

thanks for your replys!


p.s. i do not really wish to change the ps unless you guys wanna help me along the way :D and the only other ps i got is a old one (1-2 year old) @ 450 watt :)
 

EluSiOn

Member
Joined
Oct 31, 2002
Location
SC, USA
2400+ is 133 x 15; System Bus X Multiplier = 1995 mhz

Your KT 400 should enable you to access higher multiplier but not 12.5 and below.

Air cooling's effectiveness is the heatsink + thermal paste used. CPU fan does help a bit but not as much as heat sink would do. Changing a heatsink+ CPU Fan should be easy and takes less than 60 second.

KT400 boards should have 1/5 divider, but Iwill KT400 has 1/6 divider some says.

Again, 47c idle temp is still consider high. I have a 2400+ and I OC to 2285mzh = 2800+ PR and my full load temp is only 47c! and I am just only using air cooling!

p.s my first water cooling system parts are on the way... :p

cpu681.jpg
 

DaddyB

Member
Joined
Mar 30, 2002
Location
Toronto, Canada
The Kt 400 boards are supposed to have a 1/6 divisor but apparently Via forget to include that feature so you are stuck with 1/5.

Read This Article

Im not sure you know too much about the divisors since you call yourself a noob so Ill give a brief explanation: the divisors (1/4, 1/5, 1/6) will allow you to reach a higher FSB without running all of your components out of spec (only RAM and CPU will be overclocked). at 133 FSB you are using the 1/4 divisor, meaning your PCI bus is 1/4 of your FSB which is 33.33mhz and your AGP bus is always double the PCI bus, so 66.66mhz. So right now you are running at 137 FSB and you are using the 1/4 divisor, so your PCI bus is 34.25mhz and AGP bus is 68.5mhz. That means all of your PCI cards are being overclocked (this includes sound card, NIC and even your hard drive(s)), your vid card is also overclocked (running at 68.5mhz).

Since you have PC2700 RAM you might want to run at 166 FSB someday which means you will use the 1/5 divisor, this will make all of your PCI cards and HDDs run at 166/5 or 33.33mhz so they will no longer be overclocked, so you will be at 166 FSB and your RAM will be running at 166mhz (333mhz DDR) but all of your other components will still be in spec, so you can go to 170 FSB or higher and your components will only be mildly overclocked as they are now at 137FSB.

Your PSU is a little light for your system but your voltages all seem good. I can understand why you dont really want to replace the heatsink but it really is important if you want to do some real overclocking, you already did it right once and now you have a little experience doing it... just take your time. Until you get a good heatsink (thermalright AX-7, SLK800, SLK600, SLK700, SK6+, swiftech mcx462) dont push your system too hard.

A good idle temp for an overclocked cpu (running all the time or not) is 30-40c, the lower the better really. Staying under 50c while overclocked will help keep your system stable.
 
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Hc000

Member
Joined
Nov 11, 2002
how do i set my divisior to 1/5 ? and will downloading the new bios from msi help? my friend told me the all thermal paste is the same and wouldn't the amd's heatsink work better? i mean if it sux why are they including it? my system idles @ 43-45 C(Depending on the temp in the room) not overclocked 1800mhz and full load is @ 47C which i thought was quite high (my tbird idles @ 42C) so if i must replace my heatsink and fan.. i will.. if its not really expensive ($35 if available) which one do you recommend ? i saw Thermaltake Volcano 9 on a site it looks good and is cheap what do you guys think?

i would like to get my system to get to 1998 (13.5*148) which is 2400+ :) or if possible get the fsb to 166 :D

i heard that pc2700 ram in a 266 fsb (133*2) system will make it run @ 2100 speed, is that correct? if it is then my fsb would need to be @ 333 (166*2) to get the true speed of pc2700?
 
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OC Detective

Member
Joined
Jul 30, 2001
Location
Mauritius
Hc000 said:
how do i set my divisior to 1/5 ? and will downloading the new bios from msi help? my friend told me the all thermal paste is the same and wouldn't the amd's heatsink work better? i mean if it sux why are they including it? my system idles @ 43-45 C(Depending on the temp in the room) not overclocked 1800mhz and full load is @ 47C which i thought was quite high (my tbird idles @ 42C) so if i must replace my heatsink and fan.. i will.. if its not really expensive ($35 if available) which one do you recommend ? i saw Thermaltake Volcano 9 on a site it looks good and is cheap what do you guys think?

i would like to get my system to get to 1998 (13.5*148) which is 2400+ :) or if possible get the fsb to 166 :D

i heard that pc2700 ram in a 266 fsb (133*2) system will make it run @ 2100 speed, is that correct? if it is then my fsb would need to be @ 333 (166*2) to get the true speed of pc2700?
Your divisor kicks in automatically you dont set anything. The new BIOS may help but there is no guarantee and if you are not sure how to flash the BIOS you might corrupt the chip. All thermal paste is NOT the same (arctic silver is best) just as all heat sinks are not the same! A good and affordable heatsink is the AX7 though the volcano 9 is OK but not as good IMHO. As for why the HSF is included with the cpu its because it is retail and has a longer warranty but has no use to the overclocker but OK for the standard user. You wont hit 166 unless you lower the multiplier to probably 12 so long as your RAM can support it. As for 148*13.5 I would say it is possible with very good air cooling but no guarantee
 

rogerdugans

Linux challenged Senior, not that it stops me...
Joined
Dec 28, 2001
Location
Corner of No and Where
I have one of the AMD oem heatsinks on my video card.....it works pretty well on there. I put another one on a 200mhz system I just built as a toy for a buddy of mine; that one is doing well too:D

But for an XP chip they are pretty horrible. I have used them when I had nothing else available, but the only time they really get good results when you have a much better fan on the chip- like an 8000 rpm Delta.
I highly reccomend getting a good heatsink: AX7 is excellent, SLK-800 is about tops and thermalright just did another topnotch one too. All perform very close, with the AX7 being the cheapest but least effective of the three.
***A note on that: It is only the least effective in THAT comparison! I have one on an [email protected] at 1.85v and the chip is currently at 36c. OEM hsf would probably be around 55 or 57c somewhere.

Temps: higher FSB speeds tend to increase the computers sensitivity to heat: I have 3 running at 170 mhz fsb or more and none are stable over 46c or so. Luckily they never get that hot: usually the are well below 40c:)
(my temps are in-socket thermistor and 100% cpu load) You will need to cool that thing down to meet your goal, methinks. A good heatsink is the most effective way to do that.

On the plus side, your power supply is looking good so far! The next trick with it is to see how much the 5v drops under heavy load and to keep an eye on that as you overclock: get too close to 4.8v and you will probably start to crash. I try to keep mine at 4.84v at least.

Thermal compounds are NOT all the same, although application is probably more important than material most of the time. I have thrown away 6 or 8 of those little white packets of grease though, because Arctic Silver works better for me by far- good for 1 to 3c at least.

Another thought: you put your oem heatsink on right? Did it have a thermal pad on it? If it did, and you also used thermal grease than your temps are much worse than they need to be! Either work better alone than both do together: use one OR the other.
 
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Hc000

Member
Joined
Nov 11, 2002
do i HAVE to unlock the mutiplyer ? and my old comp (t bird 1400) is overheating... if i get new HS and stuff can i put my current one on that one ? and re apply the NEW thermal gel ? can someone tell me the BEST place to buy the HS? its not found on newegg :(

thanks!
 
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OC Detective

Member
Joined
Jul 30, 2001
Location
Mauritius
If you want to lower the multi the 12 then yes you will have to unlock - you can put your current hsf on the old tbird and reapply thermal paste - just make sure it is cleaned with pure alcohol first.
 
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Hc000

Member
Joined
Nov 11, 2002
why not? it will be too hot ? how fast do u think i can get it to go ? 13.5*158 = 2133 mhz ?
 

DaddyB

Member
Joined
Mar 30, 2002
Location
Toronto, Canada
Well his chip is an xp2200, so all of the multipliers above 12.5x are unlocked and he is using it on a kt400 mobo so that should unlock ALL of the multipliers right (5x-15x)?

AFAIK you wont need to do anything to the chip to unlock it, I know that you can change the multi to 12.5 or higher (all tbreds come factory unlocked) and Im pretty sure your chipset will allow you to use all of the multis... maybe someone else can clarify that.

You might want to try that out, change your multiplier to 12x in the bios then boot up the system and use WCPUID (search on google) or even windows system info to verify that you are running at 1644mhz (12x137).