Help in choosing Motherboard VRMs ???

[RGone]

I am going to put this in general motherboards section, even though I tend more to the AMD side of things. Oh holly crap no need for flames. I just did not want to clutter some user's thread with my learning. VRM knowledge would apply to any motherboard no matter the cpu installed.


This is a thread about needing advice for mobo to run an FX-8120 processor.
Post #27 is the impact post that is powering this thread. I was doing some searching before Caddi Daddi made post #27 in the thread about mobo for FX8120. He is the straw that broke the camel's back as it were.


You would do well to read Bobnova's post #22, #24 and #26 in that thread since he has put some very good information into those three posts and made a statement about VRM phases that is neat information about an Asus Adv Phase. Clue...statement by Bobnova in post #26.

I am going to reserve three/four posting spots to begin with. That way will have some room to move GOOD stuff back to the front of the thread. Well if the thread has any helpful information to move to the front and maintains on topic response.

Okay, I was kicked out of EE in college many years ago in my first year. Spent 4 years in AF, after that in an electronics related field. Then spent the next 30 years working on and engrossed in autos/bikes and racing at a level I could afford. Then I put in 6.5 years doing mobo tech support for DFI until they left the consumer mobo field and I had to move to SS.

I say all that to inform you that I am not an electronics whiz. I do however still have eyes to read and read and read. Then I go and do some more reading. I hate speculation. I do not like to say that so and so said. Or they said. I have never been able to locate the "so and so" nor the "they" and such that are given as statements of fact.

Due to Caddi Daddi pushing me over the edge, I am especially interested in VRMs for the power hungry Bulldozer/Zambezi proessors and circuits on motherboards that will be most reliable to push those FX type processors for a lengthy period of time without being always on the edge of possible imminent failure. Plus such boards and the VRM circuits on them most likely to lend themselves to good overclocking.

I am still in great wonder when I go to g00gle for some technical information, that I seldom have an OCF hit right up at the the top of my g00gle search. I know we have some EE's and upper level techs in this forum that can share actual technical knowledge and information beyond my meager knowledge. So you resident geniuses that have the time, please at least stop by now and again to see we are not veering off into never never land. Thank you.

I am going to put a link here to an excellent read on VRMs from the beginning or close to it. You have to get your feet wet at some point. I have followed Gabriel Torres and his writings for a few years now. He does not often get very lost in his writing. IF I get lost in his writing, I then contact an EE friend to get my head extracted from my dark place.


By Garbriel Torres Feb 10, 2010.
Six pages of Everything You Need to Know About the Motherboard Voltage Regulator Circuit.

 

[RGone]

It is not just the VRMs that should govern a motherboard choice but there are a number of other things that could or should enter into the decision to buy "X" motherboard. However in the list is power handling of the VRMs.

Motherboard purchasing considerations, so you do not find out you did not get what you need.

1. Does the motherboard have the standard ATX form factor, since they generally are less crowded due the larger board size and greater real estate can equal better cooling and room for heftier components and more of them.

2. Does the motherboard have enough built on features that will hold me over for a couple yrs minimum? The prospective buyer needs to decide what he really needs in a motherboard.

3. Does it have enough PCI slots and the right style for future pci card installation if I need any PCI slots at all?

4. Does it use the correct expandable video card technology that i want? Do I intend to use more than one video card. I might add right here is onboard video good enough for me or am I only going to use a stand-alone video card?

5. Does the mobo support the same socket processor socket that i want?

6. Does the mobo support at least the maximum amount of memory i want to use?

7. Does the mobo support memory that is cheaper in price than other mobos if that is my preference for saving money?

8. Speaking of onboard features- does the mobo support onboard SATA or SATAII or SATAlll and how many EIDE slots if i want any does it have? The same could be said for Usb 2.0/3.0 and even eSata ports thru the rear of the motherboard.

9. Is the mobo jumperfree? (This really is referring to jumpers for cpu or ram speed and not just a board with a CmOs jumper which even that jumper is replaced with a button type switch often now.)

10. What type of features does this mobo support that will allow me to overclock safely without damage or features that can allow the overall system to function safer\faster\durable\and any unique features that make it stand out from the rest? (In todays market that could refer to #1 above and it could refer to the cooling for VRMs/chipset as well as to say the mobo having a UEFI bios.)

11. How long is the warranty and what does it cover?
Is this manufacturer reputable with good overall ratings from other customers?
Are they located in the same country as you are?

12. In the design of the motherboard, is the layout of the design well spaced to allow installation of a heavy duty heatsink if required and\or the installation of dual video cards without cooling issues? (See #1.)

13. Lastly that I would research the chipset that the mobo uses and determine if there are any negative comments found in your research and determine if that may affect your decision for a particular mobo. (In this situation you will really have to do your legwork/homework. Just about ANY chipset has problems or bugs. Reading many many user problem threads/posts will reveal the chipset problems. How does any particular brand or model within a brand handle those issues. Some mobo companies manage to work-around many of the problems that afflict a particular chipset.)

14. Am I even interested in the processor/chipset that I first had in mind. There maybe other cpus/chipsets that are more easily overclocked and just plain easier to use day to day. I have often come to this situation after doing a lot of homework. I have looked at HWBot and looked at the rigs that are used to post up the big scores. Sometimes it seems one combination is just walking the dog over everything else. I know these guys would use 'anything' they wished and yet they are using a particular combination. This often gives me cause to look long and hard at what I really want to do. To do in the long run day in and day out.

15. Then I guess after looking at every angle I can think of; I look to see which boards are favored by what forums. I need to get a board that is thought well of and supported by a forum I enjoy being a part of if I want to communicate for help or for just plain old comradrie.

 

[RGone]

I found this to be helpful in choosing mobo...

http://www.overclock.net/t/946407/amd-motherboard-vrm-information-list

The link above will take you to this:
By reflex99 and xd_1771.
List of AMD motherboards and their power phases.
Can't find your board on the list? Submit it, and we might be able to add it!:
>>Click Here for Submission Form<<

There are three Notes shown. Note:, Note 2: and Note 3. Read them so you know what to expect. The information shown is pretty clear when you understand the notes and what information is being conveyed. There are 'google spreadsheets' for AM3+, AM3, FM1 and AM2/AM2+ motherboards and is pretty much up to date as I look around.

Of course I am looking for AM3+ motherboards so I chose to look in that chart. I note that across the top are listed various motherboard manufactures. I see Gigabyte first, then Asus, then Biostar and so on for other manufacturers.

Look down at the bottom of that menu and in blue you will see "Google Spreadsheet" and just above that a Side To Side scroll bar. You use that scroll bar in any menu to be able to see all the lateral information of any of the menus. OR for less lateral scrolling; in the menu you wish information from, JuSt click on the blue Google Spreadsheet and you are linked to a larger spreadsheet breakout.

Because I am looking at 990 type chipset motherboards, I do n0t have to do any up and down scrolling since the 990 chipset boards are the top of the AM3+ menus.

So I want to look for CHV, I go to AM3+ motherboards and across the top of that menu I choose Asus to see what information is shown about VRM on the CHV motherboard.

Motherboard model >> ROG Crosshair V Formula 
Phase count (VRMs) >> 8+2 
Heatsinked? >> Yes 
Cpu TDP support >> 140W
Recommended? (see notes above) >> Yes
Low RDS (on)? >> Yes  
Transistor info/phase >> Digital VRMs 
VRM Protection? >> Yes - throttling 
Cpu Power Plug >> 8-pin 
Form Factor >> ATX

And so there is much of the information I seek regarding VRM circuitry on the CHV motherboard by Asus. By the way it might be a good idea to get familiar with the terms surrounding VRM circuitry. A new one for you might be Low RDS technology.

What I found for the CHV by Asus is there for most other popular motherboards as well. If one has done any homework at all in looking for a motherboard that is more likely to be able to overclock somewhat reliably, the AMD FX processors, then the information in these spread sheets can be a big bonus of additional information.

I have always found it better to study my choices, rather than be dismayed at finding what I thought to be so was plainly not the situation at all. YMMV.

 

[caddi daddi]

Rgone-miester, you are so the man, i ask a question and then you answer all of them and more.
and on top of that, slip in a test to see if i'm asleep at the wheel.
thank you for finding this, i have been searching the board web sites and only found the hype!!!

 

[RGone]

Rgone-miester, you are so the man, i ask a question and then you answer all of them and more.
and on top of that, slip in a test to see if i'm asleep at the wheel.
thank you for finding this, i have been searching the board web sites and only found the hype!!!

Thank you "C_D" for the kind words. I say that you are the straw that broke the camels back, but that is just my humor. You did not make me do a thing that I had not already been doing in my own sometimes obtuse manner.

I do not get boards furnished any more and my monies are cut by 2/3's so I am looking for an AMD board for PD. I have n0 intention of buy a standard mobo since I plan on beating up on the PD. Still have my phase (hope it works) and am setup to push frigid water. I am going to play. AMD allows for playing. Hehehe. The 2011 socket is a good play ground but far too pricey for my resources now days.

So I want to buy a board to handle the strain of pushing the pee pee out of a PD cpu. Funizies is my intent. I don't need another computer but I want a new play pretty. Ah shucks, yes.

So my VRM search was already in gear, and I decided to see if we could bring forth some common knowledge that is suitable for the masses.

I found a pretty darn current list of boards and what phases of VRMs are installed and if the VRM circuit is load protected and so forth. Trying to figure out how to present it. Since it is current and on another site, I may just give some background to what is in the link and go from there. I say it is pretty current since the list includes CHV and Fatal1ty. RGone...ster.

 

[caddi daddi]

I do hope others will read this due to the hype and all.
and i hope you can get a link to the other info.
I have been trying to find close up pics of the two boards i am looking at to go under my bd's next, yhe crosshair v and the asrock fatality, i want to see them with all the heatsinks removed.
the asrock claims 12+2 powerphase and bd seems to perform better on those than sabertooth.

i have gotten lucky, both my biostar and both asus boards look like they were all good choises.

 

[RGone]

Post #3 has information in it now. RGone...ster.

 

[caddi daddi]

well, i finally settled on the crosshair v formula and bought it. i will be rebuilding the system this week and we will find out if i was right about the sabertooth requiring a bit more voltage.
what made up my mind.
#1, the big dogs use this board with this cpu and have good results.
#2, I allready own an asus board and am very happy with it and know how to use the bios. this is more important than you might think.
#3, it was on the shelf in volume so if i need to return it to the store they just might have another.
#4, heatsinks and more heatsinks.
things that don't matter.
#1 features i really don't understand or need.
#2 pretty colors, I am colorblind so i just can't say anymore on that.
#3 fanboys, I never asked witch board i should get this time and that is a good thing.

 

[Archer0915]

RGone can you take it a little deeper man?

I agree with the premise of this thread but as of late I have been stressing south bridge components and I have found that many boards are a big fail when the SB is stressed.

I have found that XMP compatibility over 2133 is not there on many boards (even some over 300 dollars running Z77). The support list is limited and BIOS flaky.

Now I have heard many people say that you never use all of those ports but I digress. The only limiting factor in any board that offers 10 SATA ports and more the 10 USB ports should be the link between the CPU and NB or SB or Memory (bandwidth limit). When you stress lesser boards the BIOS flake out or go into a permanent reboot cycle (after hours of setting up the ram timings) forcing a BIOS reset. Even having 3 sets of BIOS may not help.

Now people can say what they want about this but IMHO any board that can not run every port as advertised leaves many a question about where else corners were cut.

So when you say get enough to last make sure you mention that you need to buy proven boards from reputable manufacturers.

A 200 dollar board with 2x the bells and whistles as an ASUS or GB board may only be worth 1/2 that.

 

[caddi daddi]

how many people actually use all those drives????

 

[Archer0915]

how many people actually use all those drives????

That is irrelevant. If they cut corners in one place you can find you can bet your *** they cut corners elsewhere.

BTW I generally have 6+ drives in my main rig.

Also. If I buy one of these boards to do double duty as a WS/Server I will need all those ports.

 

[caddi daddi]

archer0915, i agree but, I am not advanced enough to be able to tell where and, or how.
I am in no way a board expert but i have learned from racing-----when in doubt, do as the hotdogs are doing and try to figure out why.

 

[Archer0915]

archer0915, i agree but, I am not advanced enough to be able to tell where and, or how.
I am in no way a board expert but i have learned from racing-----when in doubt, do as the hotdogs are doing and try to figure out why.

Well the thing is that Sabertooth you have should be able to handle it but did you ever need it? Would you ever be able to use it?

Would it not have been better to buy a mid grade board and improve everywhere else?

 

[caddi daddi]

I need it, i run a chassis setup program for my racecar, it's gigantic, hundreds and hundreds of data points it's now been rewritten to run in linux that is what brought me to overclocking to begain with. i have bought 4 fx8120's to find one that can run the beast in a time frame i can stand, that one takes 40-50 hours to complete the task, my 955 took almost a week, I just tried an 1100 six core and it did a little better tan my 955.
at this point i have used it till i have used it up, my "caps" are rising and i have found out that this is bad, to much heat so i have done the homework i am capable of doing and picked out a new board.

 

[Archer0915]

How fast are you running that CPU? What voltage? My bet is a lesser board would do the same.

 

[caddi daddi]

my "pig" runs it best at 4.2ghz, when i get it back togather i will try to find the screensots with the sabertooth and repost them.
all the lesser boards i tried popped the vrms I think i was running 1.38vcore with llc set to extreme i got it to run prime95 for hours on end the when i would run the thing it would crash so, i clicked the "+" two times in the vcore box and that is what it ran well at. i saved the profile in the bios and could just plug it right in.

the saber tooth is an awesome board, i am changing because i think i can do a little better in the temp department hence can up the clock a little while getting a bit more life out of it.
next is going to ssd.


archer0915, I have my trusty old gateway 4600-09 sill under my desk i used to run this program on (upgraded the processor to a [email protected])
sure it'll run the program just fine but two weeks was just to long to wait with back to back to back race weekends.
for that matter my packerd bell p4 1.6ghz will do everything i need but that and, outlast about anytning i can buy or build.
I am a hardware freak what fun would just an as built, will work machine be?

 

[caddi daddi]

ok, some place around here, i can't find it now, we were talking about socket am2 what cpu wound boot in what board. anyone know where it is? i have found that a 9150 cpu will not boot in a crosshair am3+socket.

for most cpus a mid line board is just fine. me 955 in the ta790 biostar is a very good set up.
the 8 core just require so much voltage and produce so much heat in such a small package at higher clocks.

 

[Archer0915]

my "pig" runs it best at 4.2ghz, when i get it back togather i will try to find the screensots with the sabertooth and repost them.
all the lesser boards i tried popped the vrms I think i was running 1.38vcore with llc set to extreme i got it to run prime95 for hours on end the when i would run the thing it would crash so, i clicked the "+" two times in the vcore box and that is what it ran well at. i saved the profile in the bios and could just plug it right in.

the saber tooth is an awesome board, i am changing because i think i can do a little better in the temp department hence can up the clock a little while getting a bit more life out of it.
next is going to ssd.


archer0915, I have my trusty old gateway 4600-09 sill under my desk i used to run this program on (upgraded the processor to a [email protected])
sure it'll run the program just fine but two weeks was just to long to wait with back to back to back race weekends.
for that matter my packerd bell p4 1.6ghz will do everything i need but that and, outlast about anytning i can buy or build.
I am a hardware freak what fun would just an as built, will work machine be?

I had web issues and could not reply yeah 4.2 on that board is something some other boards may not have done. Personally I go for middle of the road boards that allow integrated GFX. I have never needed an expensive board to get my CPU up to speed though.

 

[caddi daddi]

archer, the thing is it's not all about clock speed, my trusty pig runs the sim at 4.2 in 40-50 hours, higher or lower clock speed and it takes much more time.

 

[Archer0915]

archer, the thing is it's not all about clock speed, my trusty pig runs the sim at 4.2 in 40-50 hours, higher or lower clock speed and it takes much more time.

I got ya. NP