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HELP!! Intel i9-9900KF heat issues when folding - Boinc, max temps over 80C

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EarthDog

Gulper Nozzle Co-Owner
Joined
Dec 15, 2008
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Buckeyes!
ED, that's the question I'm asking you? If cooler is always better, better to what end?

I don't disagree with your overall conclusion that for the OP to spend more money on better cooling may not be a wise use of money I'm just wanting to know why you say in one place better cooling is always better but in other places you say it won't make the CPU last longer or perform better. So besides those two measures of what is better, in what ways can better cooling be better?
Lower temperatures are better in that they are lower. It may improve processor longetivity, but a 10C difference isn't the make or break. Neither is worth another cooler or AIO. Outside of that, I am not sure what you are getting at, lol.... does it warrant such a spend on new cooling to have it 10C less? Nobody can tell you, oh yes, if you drop temps 20C, that CPU will now last xx years as opposed to xx when running at 80C. This CPU is so far from throttling and protecting itself, I'd worry more about the constant load and voltage than I would temperatures.
 

maxfly

Member
Joined
May 7, 2005
@op
check out a noctua nh-u12s or nh-u14s you can usually pick them up for $60 or $70. they both have solid memory clearance but youll have to find out if they are to tall or not(they may hit the side window). im running a nh-u12s in my back up rig and there is plenty of room between it and the memory. it actually sits in the same position as your 212. if you would like i can take a picture of it. if you have a noctua 3000rpm fan i would use that as your exhaust and simply use the bios or mb to set up a fan curve so it isnt going to blast away.
*keep in mind your using the second and fourth dimms so memory clearance isnt going to be an issue for most quality heatsinks. some of the big monster heatsinks will cover up the first dimm but nothing else.
 

Voodoo Rufus

Powder Junkie Moderator
Joined
Sep 20, 2001
In general, the life of a semiconductor is halved for every 10C increase in operating temperature. I would call 100% duty cycle as processor abuse if not properly cooled. If I were Intel or AMD, I would not be happy if someone wanted a replacement inside a warranty time frame and they ran it at 100% load from day 1.

Sure, the current chips are spec'ed to run without throttling at up to 90 or 100C. Doesn't mean you're being nice to it, especially if you run overclocked with boosted voltages. That's like bolting an aftermarket turbocharger to an otherwise stock engine.

I would say 80C as the thread starter talked about is just fine for long term use. The Hyper 212 is doing its job, but having to work for it.

http://www.apiste-global.com/enc/technology_enc/detail/id=1262
 

EarthDog

Gulper Nozzle Co-Owner
Joined
Dec 15, 2008
Location
Buckeyes!
In general, the life of a semiconductor is halved for every 10C increase in operating temperature. I would call 100% duty cycle as processor abuse if not properly cooled. If I were Intel or AMD, I would not be happy if someone wanted a replacement inside a warranty time frame and they ran it at 100% load from day 1.

Sure, the current chips are spec'ed to run without throttling at up to 90 or 100C. Doesn't mean you're being nice to it, especially if you run overclocked with boosted voltages. That's like bolting an aftermarket turbocharger to an otherwise stock engine.

I would say 80C as the thread starter talked about is just fine for long term use. The Hyper 212 is doing its job, but having to work for it.

http://www.apiste-global.com/enc/technology_enc/detail/id=1262
10C is a lot more than I thought, wow!

Still, I wouldn't second running how the OP is now. ;)

Intel and AMD should expect this, honestly. Look at some servers, for example. I agree overclocking and running out of spec will shorten the lifespan of a CPU. But the OP appears to be running stock (sig?) and temperatures are well within range, 20C away, in fact. This is why when overclocking and stress testing in general, for processors like this (Tjmax of 100C), we say to run ~90C or less. During normal activity, gaming for example, temperatures are, for me, 30C less giving you ample headroom for use and abuse. If 80C is as hot as it will get and running stock, I'd sleep easy for years. :)
 
OP
techiemon

techiemon

Member
Joined
Jan 29, 2007
I used inexpensive sheet metal scissors, also known as metal "shears". This is why I had to tape the cut edges.


What gauge were they rated at? My case is quite think, and what I can find online will only cut less than 1mm thick, seems my case is over 1mm, so I am not sure if those 16-22 gauge cutters I found will do the trick. I think I need to replace the rear fan anyway as the quality stinks.


"I guess I still have a lot to learn about better quality brands, I thought Cooler Master was pretty good."

The brand is not the issue. The application scenario may be. Cooler Master makes many different coolers, air and AIO water. Their products are generally well engineered. They make small coolers for low end applications, bigger coolers for mid range applications and big coolers for high end applications. The Hyper 212X is a mid range air cooler but your CPU is a higher end processor that makes a lot of heat when pushed. As others have said, your present cooler has got you covered but without a lot of margin. Folding is an intense activity that runs 24/7, as I understand it. Although the temps you quote are well within the range of what is considered safe, I'm not sure I would feel comfortable with running my CPU in the mid 80s continuously like that.

Concerning running the Noctua NH-D15 with your RAM, I doubt it would be a problem. Your RAM's heatsink is really not that tall and the NH-D15 is made to work with taller RAM. The fin stack on the RAM side has a step cut in it for clearance. Just make sure your case has the clearance to the side panel to accommodate the height of that cooler. I think the NH-D15 is 165mm tall with fan in place. What case make and model do you have? That is not in your Sig. And if you change from your present cooler, regardless of whether you use air or water, make sure that what you get will fit. Research it.

And concerning installing an AIO (All In One) water cooler, you don't need to spend $30 to have someone do it. It's very straight forward. It comes in one piece already assembled and filled with water. You just have to mount the radiator in the case and the pump/water block on the CPU. Whoever you have been using to build your systems, historically, seems not to be reliable or give good customer service. I think it's time for you to quit depending on them and start doing your own builds and upgrades. It is not rocket science.


I think the D15 will not fit. Case not deep enough, will hit my glass I think, and I think the RAM may still be in the way, and the distance between rear heat sink fan and rear case fan will be too close I think. it looks like a great set up but I think it is too big even for my case, which is below you can check it out. I think the case fans are really weak.


I used inexpensive sheet metal scissors, also known as metal "shears". This is why I had to tape the cut edges.

Other people have used stretched nylon fabric from pantyhose as dust filers.

" The intake air is only on the side and bottom."

No fan spots in the front panel? Again, what is the make and model of the case?


I have three in the front. The case is FSP CMT520plus https://www.fsplifestyle.com/en/product/CMT520plus.html

I think the case fans are really weak. I need some recommendations for a rear exhaust fan, I think the MSI Torex seems to move air quite well, but I am not sure how well it will work with the LED capabilities of the front fans. Or if I will end up with rear being green and red flashing while the front are white. lol. I don't know how that works, if it is controlled by the MB or not....

I am trying to find a way to remove that stupid front glass panel without breaking it also, they make such small holes in the front for air intake, I mean seriously WTH, it's just not enough airflow. I feel the front intake fans are rather weak as well, same as rear one.



@OP
check out a noctua nh-u12s or nh-u14s you can usually pick them up for $60 or $70. they both have solid memory clearance but youll have to find out if they are to tall or not(they may hit the side window). im running a nh-u12s in my back up rig and there is plenty of room between it and the memory. it actually sits in the same position as your 212. if you would like i can take a picture of it. if you have a noctua 3000rpm fan i would use that as your exhaust and simply use the bios or mb to set up a fan curve so it isnt going to blast away.
*keep in mind your using the second and fourth dimms so memory clearance isnt going to be an issue for most quality heatsinks. some of the big monster heatsinks will cover up the first dimm but nothing else.

I will check these. I have a 14MM Noctua you can see hanging, but I feel they lie about their CFM, because really I do not feel much air being pushed. I feel the MSI TOREX fans push much more air, at least it feels like it... I am not sure if I can pick those up that cheap. This one I have now is like 30 bucks. But I am a little disappointed in the airflow even though they taught some 186, while the MSI is only like 71. I don't get it.


In general, the life of a semiconductor is halved for every 10C increase in operating temperature. I would call 100% duty cycle as processor abuse if not properly cooled. If I were Intel or AMD, I would not be happy if someone wanted a replacement inside a warranty time frame and they ran it at 100% load from day 1.

Sure, the current chips are spec'ed to run without throttling at up to 90 or 100C. Doesn't mean you're being nice to it, especially if you run overclocked with boosted voltages. That's like bolting an aftermarket turbocharger to an otherwise stock engine.

I would say 80C as the thread starter talked about is just fine for long term use. The Hyper 212 is doing its job, but having to work for it.

http://www.apiste-global.com/enc/technology_enc/detail/id=1262

Wow! That's significant. I don't run OC luckily, I actually wanted to reduce the clock speeds to under 4.5 and lower the voltage, but as I do not run Boinc 24/7, I am not sure if it would create instability. I usually have to turn Boinc off when I am on a voice call or something.


10C is a lot more than I thought, wow!

Still, I wouldn't second running how the OP is now. ;)

Intel and AMD should expect this, honestly. Look at some servers, for example. I agree overclocking and running out of spec will shorten the lifespan of a CPU. But the OP appears to be running stock (sig?) and temperatures are well within range, 20C away, in fact. This is why when overclocking and stress testing in general, for processors like this (Tjmax of 100C), we say to run ~90C or less. During normal activity, gaming for example, temperatures are, for me, 30C less giving you ample headroom for use and abuse. If 80C is as hot as it will get and running stock, I'd sleep easy for years. :)

Yes, stock. 4.7 or lower. And sometimes my temps will go up to 85-87C if I am not careful, but these are spikes, not constant run time. Honestly I don't know what is more dangerous, the constant high temp or a spike. I would assume the spike is not going to do much damage but the constant running at 80-90-100 will eventually fry it.

I would love my CPUs to be no higher than 75C running 100%. That would just give me that feel good, yeah I know.. Feel and real, I know I know..


So what I did tried today was reversing my roof middle fan to suck air into the machine rather than exhaust it, as it sits right over the RAM and front part of the heatsink. It didn't really change much... I think I need to remove the rear grill and getting a better fan for the back.
 
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EarthDog

Gulper Nozzle Co-Owner
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It didn't auto-merge because the new post was almost 20 mins later (I think the automerge is 5 mins). You can edit the long post add to it, and delete the last one.
 
OP
techiemon

techiemon

Member
Joined
Jan 29, 2007
It didn't auto-merge because the new post was almost 20 mins later (I think the automerge is 5 mins). You can edit the long post add to it, and delete the last one.

I am surprised you saw that, because I already copied and pasted it to the post above and then deleted the second post. I didn't realize it had been 20 minutes. haha, nor did I know there was a time limit. That's news to me, but good to know, thank you.
 

trents

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 27, 2008
You have "honeycomb" fan grills on your case. They block about 8% of air flow. What you "feel" with your hand coming through the grills is deceptive since the honeycomb grill creates a diffuse flow rather than a focused stream. https://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/articles/Effects-of-Grill-Patterns-on-Fan-Performance-Noise-107/

According to FSP's own website, your case will support air cooler height up to 163mm : https://www.fsplifestyle.com/en/product/CMT520plus.html

Maxifly's suggestion of the noctua nh-u12s is an excellent one! It gets a lot of accolades and will fit into you case. The Noctua NH-U12A might even be a better choice because of the fans, if RAM clearance is not an issue. https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/noctua-nh-u12a-cooler,6372-2.html
 
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OP
techiemon

techiemon

Member
Joined
Jan 29, 2007
You have "honeycomb" fan grills on your case. They block about 8% of air flow. What you "feel" with your hand coming through the grills is deceptive since the honeycomb grill creates a diffuse flow rather than a focused stream. https://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/articles/Effects-of-Grill-Patterns-on-Fan-Performance-Noise-107/

According to FSP's own website, your case will support air cooler height up to 163mm : https://www.fsplifestyle.com/en/product/CMT520plus.html

Maxifly's suggestion of the noctua nh-u12s is an excellent one! It gets a lot of accolades and will fit into you case. The Noctua NH-U12A might even be a better choice because of the fans, if RAM clearance is not an issue. https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/noctua-nh-u12a-cooler,6372-2.html


So basically what you are saying is that for 8% there is no need to cut the grill off?

TBH I am not sure if I have the 520 or 520plus. Vendor said plus, but I wonder. But they both are 163mm for the heat sink height.
If I were to do it, I would probably go with the nh-u12s as it may not have any issue with the RAM. If you think the U12A would work better, but... I think RAM clearance is an issue. If my cooler master was forward more, it would hit the RAM. But according to Nuctua website it seems has RAM clearance. But I am not sure how this is going to work because my heatsink already almost touches the glass of my case. But from photos, what it appears Noctua did was shorten the heatsink needles points on the end to make them flush with the top of the fan so it should fit. The U12-A has 7 pipes, that's quite unique. It has two fans like my current cooler master does. The difference is 3 pipes. How much of a temperature difference am I going to see per pipe? 1-2C?
 

trents

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 27, 2008
I'm saying you won't gain as much as you think by cutting the grill off. It's not a magic bullet.

Your present cooler is 159mm tall. So you should have about 4mm of clearance to the glass.

The Noctua NH-U12A is offset from center to provide RAM clearance for the front fan. Your present cooler is not.

Both number and diameter of heat pipes will make a difference in cooling efficiency. Fin density will also make a difference. I think you can readily see the Noctua NH-12A has fins that are closely packed together, thus more of them to dissipate the heat than I think there is with the CM 212X. I also imagine the Noctual fans are considerably better. Look at how large the hub is on the Noctua NH-U12A. Bigger fan motor. The mounting mechanism of the Noctual is also better. This is just a wild guess, but I imagine you might see 4-5c lower temps with the Noctua NH-U12A with fans at full power.
 
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EarthDog

Gulper Nozzle Co-Owner
Joined
Dec 15, 2008
Location
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I'm saying you won't gain as much as you think by cutting the grill off. It's not a magic bullet
This.

Obviously, 8% more airflow doesn't translate to 8% better temps. Dont hack your case up for this. Seriously. Your temps are FINE. Move on.:)
 

ehume

Member
Joined
Oct 30, 2009
Cutting off the rear grill is more a matter of silence than performance.

As for performance, in my last review (https://www.overclockers.com/noctua-nh-d14-redux-modern-fans-on-an-old-heatsink/) I covered the NH-D14. I found it an excellent heatsink. The Results chart shows you relevant performances of top heatsinks.

I did, however, run my CPUs at the bleeding edge: an increase of 100 MHz would require much-increased Vcore and result in much-increased core temps. as it was, Linpack would spike into the 90's. That said, I reviewed a 4-heatpipe heatsink and a 5-heatpipe heatsink (you can find them in the table of contents: https://www.overclockers.com/author/ehume/; I apologize for not finding the individual reviews, but I do one-fingered typing these days).

That said, I found the 4-heatpipe heatsink cooled better than the 5-heatpipe heatsink, but both were 10-20c behind the top heatsinks. (The 4-heatpipe heatsink was a direct contact heatsink and cooled better than the 5-heatpipe heatsink, which was not; the various models of the 212 differ in their supplied fans; the underlying heatsink is the same).

I concur with the poster above; as long as you stay around 80c you have nothing to worry about.
 
OP
techiemon

techiemon

Member
Joined
Jan 29, 2007
I'm saying you won't gain as much as you think by cutting the grill off. It's not a magic bullet.

Your present cooler is 159mm tall. So you should have about 4mm of clearance to the glass.

The Noctua NH-U12A is offset from center to provide RAM clearance for the front fan. Your present cooler is not.

Both number and diameter of heat pipes will make a difference in cooling efficiency. Fin density will also make a difference. I think you can readily see the Noctua NH-12A has fins that are closely packed together, thus more of them to dissipate the heat than I think there is with the CM 212X. I also imagine the Noctual fans are considerably better. Look at how large the hub is on the Noctua NH-U12A. Bigger fan motor. The mounting mechanism of the Noctual is also better. This is just a wild guess, but I imagine you might see 4-5c lower temps with the Noctua NH-U12A with fans at full power.

Yes, I think it probably will fit. But I am really wondering if it is worth the cost for 4-5C. What would a water cooler give me? 5-10C?
The biggest problem is at night when I do not use AC in the room, I have to drop the usage to 30-40% otherwise temps will skyrocket to 85-90C during the night with average temps reaching 80s continually.

What is the better cpu glue/resin forgot what you call it, to use with these? What it looks like they used on mine as I have the tube left is Mastergel Pro, it's black. Not sure if that is what cooler master gave me or it was from another company, but seems it is from CM.


This.

Obviously, 8% more airflow doesn't translate to 8% better temps. Dont hack your case up for this. Seriously. Your temps are FINE. Move on.:)

Of course, I know that. 8% may do nothing.

Cutting off the rear grill is more a matter of silence than performance.

As for performance, in my last review (https://www.overclockers.com/noctua-nh-d14-redux-modern-fans-on-an-old-heatsink/) I covered the NH-D14. I found it an excellent heatsink. The Results chart shows you relevant performances of top heatsinks.

I did, however, run my CPUs at the bleeding edge: an increase of 100 MHz would require much-increased Vcore and result in much-increased core temps. as it was, Linpack would spike into the 90's. That said, I reviewed a 4-heatpipe heatsink and a 5-heatpipe heatsink (you can find them in the table of contents: https://www.overclockers.com/author/ehume/; I apologize for not finding the individual reviews, but I do one-fingered typing these days).

That said, I found the 4-heatpipe heatsink cooled better than the 5-heatpipe heatsink, but both were 10-20c behind the top heatsinks. (The 4-heatpipe heatsink was a direct contact heatsink and cooled better than the 5-heatpipe heatsink, which was not; the various models of the 212 differ in their supplied fans; the underlying heatsink is the same).

I concur with the poster above; as long as you stay around 80c you have nothing to worry about.

Thank you for this. I will read over your reviews.
 

EarthDog

Gulper Nozzle Co-Owner
Joined
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The biggest problem is at night when I do not use AC in the room, I have to drop the usage to 30-40% otherwise temps will skyrocket to 85-90C during the night with average temps reaching 80s continually.

What is the better cpu glue/resin forgot what you call it, to use with these? What it looks like they used on mine as I have the tube left is Mastergel Pro, it's black. Not sure if that is what cooler master gave me or it was from another company, but seems it is from CM.
1. That's your biggest hurdle...the mental one - getting used to the fact that letting your cpu run that hot is ok. Once you make good with that, things would be a lot easier for you.

2. Thermal paste or TIM (Thermal Interface Material). Thermal pastes are all within a couple/few of C, really. Plenty of reviews out there. Look up, "thermal paste roundup" and check some of those out to see. Your better off perfecting your application amd mount than you are to pay a premium for a paste that is 1.5C better. :)
 

trents

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 27, 2008
Yes, I think it probably will fit. But I am really wondering if it is worth the cost for 4-5C. What would a water cooler give me? 5-10C?
The biggest problem is at night when I do not use AC in the room, I have to drop the usage to 30-40% otherwise temps will skyrocket to 85-90C during the night with average temps reaching 80s continually.

What is the better cpu glue/resin forgot what you call it, to use with these? What it looks like they used on mine as I have the tube left is Mastergel Pro, it's black. Not sure if that is what cooler master gave me or it was from another company, but seems it is from CM.





Of course, I know that. 8% may do nothing.



Thank you for this. I will read over your reviews.

Rule of thumb is that a good AIO cooler with 240mm radiator will give temps about 1-3c better than the best air coolers (e.g. Noctua NH-D15). Your case also will accommodate a 360mm AIO radiator which will give you still a little better cooling. Going with the best AIO cooling solution available may give you 5-10c but there are go guarantees. The efficiency of whatever cooling solution you deploy is really hurt by your high ambient temps.
 

freeagent

Member
Joined
Sep 15, 2004
Location
Winnipeg!
I wasn't planning on running a CPU for 10 years, but I still have my X5690. An AIO or CLC or whatever will be awesome for about 18-24 months, after that you will notice its performance start to taper off, especially with a CPU like yours that puts out real heat, quad cores are relatively easy to cool. I went back to air and I haven't really looked back. I still get great performance and can max my cpu in clocks, and voltage (1.6v), and its quiet, until I turn my fans up during some benches, or certain stress testing. Even my 3770K took 1.525v with air. Didn't like it much, but it still took it. Its nice not having to worry.
 

Woomack

Benching Team Leader
Joined
Jan 2, 2005
I'm saying you won't gain as much as you think by cutting the grill off. It's not a magic bullet.

Your present cooler is 159mm tall. So you should have about 4mm of clearance to the glass.

The Noctua NH-U12A is offset from center to provide RAM clearance for the front fan. Your present cooler is not.

Both number and diameter of heat pipes will make a difference in cooling efficiency. Fin density will also make a difference. I think you can readily see the Noctua NH-12A has fins that are closely packed together, thus more of them to dissipate the heat than I think there is with the CM 212X. I also imagine the Noctual fans are considerably better. Look at how large the hub is on the Noctua NH-U12A. Bigger fan motor. The mounting mechanism of the Noctual is also better. This is just a wild guess, but I imagine you might see 4-5c lower temps with the Noctua NH-U12A with fans at full power.

You can expect about 3°C difference between the U12A with 2 fans and the U12S with 2 fans ( U12S comes with 1 fan as a standard) where U12S is already around 5-6°C better than the Hyper 212. Depends on the CPU (more like core/die size etc), U12A can perform even close to the 280 AIO and beats popular 240 AIO, the same as the D15 which is significantly larger cooler. The D15 is barely better than the U12A. Count maybe 2°C difference in most scenarios but can be some more, depends on the CPU.
Temps above are from my tests on all these coolers but I was using mostly Ryzen 3700X, 3900X, and Intel 9700K/9900K. Results highly vary depends on the CPU and its die size. I also can be slightly wrong but this is how I remember my results.

Actually, I saw the thread title and I thought it's a bigger problem. 80°C is quite low for that setup. Most new Intel CPUs go up to 90-95°C on similar cooling so for sure there is good airflow and I wouldn't worry about anything in this PC. It's nearly impossible to keep these chips below 80°C under load using a typical air/water setup. Even if you use higher series cooler then you won't see constant ~70°C under full CPU load. My tests on the 9700K were giving me higher temps on better coolers, not to mention 9900K.