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HELP!! Intel i9-9900KF heat issues when folding - Boinc, max temps over 80C

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OP
techiemon

techiemon

Member
Joined
Jan 29, 2007
1. That's your biggest hurdle...the mental one - getting used to the fact that letting your cpu run that hot is ok. Once you make good with that, things would be a lot easier for you.

2. Thermal paste or TIM (Thermal Interface Material). Thermal pastes are all within a couple/few of C, really. Plenty of reviews out there. Look up, "thermal paste roundup" and check some of those out to see. Your better off perfecting your application amd mount than you are to pay a premium for a paste that is 1.5C better. :)

Noted on thermal paste. I have never done this myself, and was told before not to use a youtube video to learn, is that true? haha. I will just use the one from cooler master as I still have it.

Rule of thumb is that a good AIO cooler with 240mm radiator will give temps about 1-3c better than the best air coolers (e.g. Noctua NH-D15). Your case also will accommodate a 360mm AIO radiator which will give you still a little better cooling. Going with the best AIO cooling solution available may give you 5-10c but there are go guarantees. The efficiency of whatever cooling solution you deploy is really hurt by your high ambient temps.

I was going to go with the 360mm ones as it would fit, as that is pretty much what I have now, There is plenty of space for three front fans. I think the D15 is quite big, each fan is 140mm, that would be pushing it, though with Noctua design it probably would fit.

I meant the Noctua NH-U14S. Sorry for the typo.

Noted.


I wasn't planning on running a CPU for 10 years, but I still have my X5690. An AIO or CLC or whatever will be awesome for about 18-24 months, after that you will notice its performance start to taper off, especially with a CPU like yours that puts out real heat, quad cores are relatively easy to cool. I went back to air and I haven't really looked back. I still get great performance and can max my cpu in clocks, and voltage (1.6v), and its quiet, until I turn my fans up during some benches, or certain stress testing. Even my 3770K took 1.525v with air. Didn't like it much, but it still took it. Its nice not having to worry.

So what you are telling me is that either Fan or Water, after 18-24 months it is time to swap out the fans anyway, right? Or do you mean the CPU is going to stop performing like it does now? I am guessing you mean the CPU performance.


You can expect about 3°C difference between the U12A with 2 fans and the U12S with 2 fans ( U12S comes with 1 fan as a standard) where U12S is already around 5-6°C better than the Hyper 212. Depends on the CPU (more like core/die size etc), U12A can perform even close to the 280 AIO and beats popular 240 AIO, the same as the D15 which is significantly larger cooler. The D15 is barely better than the U12A. Count maybe 2°C difference in most scenarios but can be some more, depends on the CPU.
Temps above are from my tests on all these coolers but I was using mostly Ryzen 3700X, 3900X, and Intel 9700K/9900K. Results highly vary depends on the CPU and its die size. I also can be slightly wrong but this is how I remember my results.

Actually, I saw the thread title and I thought it's a bigger problem. 80°C is quite low for that setup. Most new Intel CPUs go up to 90-95°C on similar cooling so for sure there is good airflow and I wouldn't worry about anything in this PC. It's nearly impossible to keep these chips below 80°C under load using a typical air/water setup. Even if you use higher series cooler then you won't see constant ~70°C under full CPU load. My tests on the 9700K were giving me higher temps on better coolers, not to mention 9900K.

I may let this go for awhile as is, and then after 1-2 years replace the CM with the Noctua, or depending on how hot this summer gets, if indoor temps reach 30+C then I am kinda screwed because at night I won't be able to run but maybe 20% of CPU without going over 80C. It's pushing it now as it is. But it is interesting to see that 5-6C, and a replacement of the back exhaust fan may add another 1C. Which is pretty significant. I did have a bigger problem at the beginning of all of this, but I did not post to the forums right away, I tried to resolve the problem for weeks on my own. One of the biggest issues that I had that made temps spike to the 90s was ASUS' crummy AU suite fan controller. The original one with the system didn't even have a fan controller. The fans would just go based on temp of the CPU, but as you can guess it delayed high RPM causing peaks over 90C. I contacted ASUS and told them I want FULL FAN control, and they gave me a link to an update. Where I can set 3 MB controllers for 100% RPM, which is what it runs at 24 hours a day now. DB is around 30 with all that. I have 10 fans in my pc, so 30 isn't too horrible. But much louder than it originally was.

I still feel 80C is high, but yes, I know these particular chips run extremely hot. 3 year warranty, but hoping to get at least 5-10 out of it, but running it like it is now, I have no idea.

My CPU was spiking over 90C weeks ago, and after tinkering with things and getting more fans installed and adjusting the direction of them, seems to have helped significantly.

I want to get a smoke machine to see the air flow through the machine to see if what I have already done is the best, but they run about 100-200 bucks, so an incense stick will probably be the other option.
 

EarthDog

Gulper Nozzle Co-Owner
Joined
Dec 15, 2008
Location
Buckeyes!
So what you are telling me is that either Fan or Water, after 18-24 months it is time to swap out the fans anyway, right?
No. Fans don't 'slow down' after a year or two. As far as AIO performance, I don't see what that would change either... many are warranted for longer than that.

but running it like it is now, I have no idea.
My friend, I'd bet it will last at least 5 years. The thing is, nobody knows if heat will do it or something else.
 

trents

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 27, 2008
As ED said, the fans aren't the issue. Water coolers become a little less efficient over time because microbes multiply in the system and clog the radiator and the waterblock's internal heat exchange channels. Also, water can evaporate through the hoses. An "open" custom loop can be flushed and refilled but an AIO is a sealed unit and disposable.

Applying thermal paste (TIM) is a simple task. First, you clean the two surfaces with a rag or a tissue moistened with Isopropyl alcohol. Then you squeeze a BB to small pea sized blob of TIM onto the top of the CPU. Don't try to spread it. Instead, lower the cooler onto the CPU and then tighten the retaining screws. The pressure will spread the TIM blob. Tighten the retaining screws one or two turns at a time in an "X" pattern to get even spreading pressure. That's it and the process is the same whether or not you are installing an AIO water block or an air cooler.
 
OP
techiemon

techiemon

Member
Joined
Jan 29, 2007
No. Fans don't 'slow down' after a year or two. As far as AIO performance, I don't see what that would change either... many are warranted for longer than that.

My friend, I'd bet it will last at least 5 years. The thing is, nobody knows if heat will do it or something else.

That's what I thought. Fans usually just die. haha. We all have had that happen. I would rather not install water cooling.

As ED said, the fans aren't the issue. Water coolers become a little less efficient over time because microbes multiply in the system and clog the radiator and the waterblock's internal heat exchange channels. Also, water can evaporate through the hoses. An "open" custom loop can be flushed and refilled but an AIO is a sealed unit and disposable.

Applying thermal paste (TIM) is a simple task. First, you clean the two surfaces with a rag or a tissue moistened with Isopropyl alcohol. Then you squeeze a BB to small pea sized blob of TIM onto the top of the CPU. Don't try to spread it. Instead, lower the cooler onto the CPU and then tighten the retaining screws. The pressure will spread the TIM blob. Tighten the retaining screws one or two turns at a time in an "X" pattern to get even spreading pressure. That's it and the process is the same whether or not you are installing an AIO water block or an air cooler.

Yes, it makes sense what you say about water coolers, they sound more trouble then they are worth at least for the time being. I am going to change to the noctua I think, it's about 100 bucks here but that investment should help keep the temps below 80 with AC on. I would love to run my pc at night at 100% but I know they would go to 90 or above right now. But hopefully the new heat sink will help bring down the temps about 5C.

Can you recommend a replacement rear exhaust fan brand that has good CFM but not overly loud, should be LED also compatible with ASUS Aura. I want to replace it. I think it is not blowing out enough heat. And the CFM is really bad. Just 39. It is a stock case fan, it's quiet, but... I need something that can move that heat away faster. With GPU and CPU temps high I think this could also be leading to higher core temps as the heat just cannot get away fast enough.
 
OP
techiemon

techiemon

Member
Joined
Jan 29, 2007
Probably deepcool if they are available would be a decent choice.

I checked these, they don't seem much different than others, and the one I found is only 50cfm, not much different. There is a cool factor with the frameless fan, but other than that I see nothing special about it. And only one seems built for the AURA.
 

trents

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 27, 2008
Yes, it makes sense what you say about water coolers, they sound more trouble then they are worth at least for the time being. I am going to change to the noctua I think, it's about 100 bucks here but that investment should help keep the temps below 80 with AC on. I would love to run my pc at night at 100% but I know they would go to 90 or above right now. But hopefully the new heat sink will help bring down the temps about 5C.

But if you want to meet your cooling goals, a 360mm AIO is most likely to get you there. Otherwise, you may spend almost as much on an air cooler and be disappointed.

Noctua fans get universal accolades but I don't think they come in LED versions? What size do you need? 120mm? 140mm? And to a certain extent, moving a lot of air and quiet don't go together, though it is true that two fans can move the same amount of air but one does it with less noise.
 
OP
techiemon

techiemon

Member
Joined
Jan 29, 2007
But if you want to meet your cooling goals, a 360mm AIO is most likely to get you there. Otherwise, you may spend almost as much on an air cooler and be disappointed.

Noctua fans get universal accolades but I don't think they come in LED versions? What size do you need? 120mm? 140mm? And to a certain extent, moving a lot of air and quiet don't go together, though it is true that two fans can move the same amount of air but one does it with less noise.

I know, but I would rather still use air cooling.

The rear exhaust fan is 120mm. Prefer it to have LED as it fits with the case and the front fans. I am not buying a Noctua exhaust fan, that is unnecessary. Any brand is fine, quiet is better, but it has to move more air. But yeah, I know... moving air and being quiet don't go together very well...


$100 for 5C dreams...

I hope you find what you are looking for with this expenditure. :)

From your point of view it seems that the change from 4 heatpipes to 7 heatpipes is not going to make all that much difference... And yeah, I know for another 100 I can go with water cooling, but I don't want the hassle with it, evaporation, etc. My goal is to get temps low enough that I can run my cpu without AC during the summer 75-100% of my cpus without worry. Today, I am lucky, with AC at 26C, I was able to run my system at 100% with temps in the mid 60s stably. If I can do this with a change in heatsinks, it's great news. I a not expecting a miracle, but hoping for at least 5C difference. Peace of mind when I am not home that my temps will stay under 80.
 

ehume

Member
Joined
Oct 30, 2009
. . . to a certain extent, moving a lot of air and quiet don't go together . . .
This is why, instead of using exhaust fans, I have pull fans on my heatsinks (to entrain case air) and cut away my rear grills, to allow my entrained case air to quietly exit my cases.
 

EarthDog

Gulper Nozzle Co-Owner
Joined
Dec 15, 2008
Location
Buckeyes!
From your point of view it seems that the change from 4 heatpipes to 7 heatpipes is not going to make all that much difference...
Sorry, I didnt mean heatsink performamce, just that lowering temperatures by 5C is your dream. $100 to change 5C is how much your dream costs.

My goal is to get temps low enough that I can run my cpu without AC during the summer 75-100% of my cpus without worry.
The wattage won't change though... your room will still be dissipating the same amount of heat.

Think of it this way... both a bonfire with yellow flame and a lighter with yellow flame are the same temperature. Which of those will be easier to cool? Clearly a bonfire has a lot more energy even though it is the same temperature.
 
OP
techiemon

techiemon

Member
Joined
Jan 29, 2007
This is why, instead of using exhaust fans, I have pull fans on my heatsinks (to entrain case air) and cut away my rear grills, to allow my entrained case air to quietly exit my cases.

So... actually.... there may be absolutely no reason for me to even change that stock fan.... Because just cutting away the grill and removing the fan and letting the pull fan on the other end of the heatsink let the air out is pretty much the same. as I have that roof exhaust fan also that is 73CFM is actually doing a lot of the job for me already. so it seems to me just changing the heatsink to that Noctua may be enough....

- - - Auto-Merged Double Post - - -

Sorry, I didnt mean heatsink performamce, just that lowering temperatures by 5C is your dream. $100 to change 5C is how much your dream costs.

The wattage won't change though... your room will still be dissipating the same amount of heat.

Think of it this way... both a bonfire with yellow flame and a lighter with yellow flame are the same temperature. Which of those will be easier to cool? Clearly a bonfire has a lot more energy even though it is the same temperature.

I see. Yes, I know the cost per 1C is ridiculous. My AC draws much more electricity than a CPU heatsink, that 100000% for sure. Even if my room gets hotter, if that heat gets away from the computer and dissipates throughout my house more evenly the CPU will still stay a bit cooler. During the day hours I am not so worried anymore. It seems I got the situation under control with the AC on and with the additional fans and reversing the airflow from the roof to blow directly over the CPU, that helped a bunch. The heatsink is an added bonus if it it really works. But as you said, I may be find myself severely disappointed...
 

ehume

Member
Joined
Oct 30, 2009
So... actually.... there may be absolutely no reason for me to even change that stock fan.... Because just cutting away the grill and removing the fan and letting the pull fan on the other end of the heatsink let the air out is pretty much the same.
I just said what I do. What you do may differ. I will say that my pull fans are 140mm, and thus are quieter than 120mm fans. Also, pull fans are farther inside the case than exhaust fans, so their noise is masked by the case; and they are not next to a perforated steel wall; and they work less hard. But if the upward-facing fan does not bother you, then I would agree you should leave your case alone.
 
OP
techiemon

techiemon

Member
Joined
Jan 29, 2007
I just said what I do. What you do may differ. I will say that my pull fans are 140mm, and thus are quieter than 120mm fans. Also, pull fans are farther inside the case than exhaust fans, so their noise is masked by the case; and they are not next to a perforated steel wall; and they work less hard. But if the upward-facing fan does not bother you, then I would agree you should leave your case alone.

Right, yes, I know. What I meant was that in actuality the rear exhaust fan does not have to be high performance to remove the heat. The roof fan is load, yes, but it is more than double the CFM to the rear one. Heat rises, so hot one more important than rear.

Tomorrow I am installing the Noctua fan, we shall see if any significant difference or not. My hope is at the very least I can remove the need to run the fans at 100% 24 hours a day. Just a hope...
 

trents

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 27, 2008
Right, yes, I know. What I meant was that in actuality the rear exhaust fan does not have to be high performance to remove the heat. The roof fan is load, yes, but it is more than double the CFM to the rear one. Heat rises, so hot one more important than rear.

Tomorrow I am installing the Noctua fan, we shall see if any significant difference or not. My hope is at the very least I can remove the need to run the fans at 100% 24 hours a day. Just a hope...

Did you mean heat sink and fan or just changing a case fan?

- - - Auto-Merged Double Post - - -

Right, yes, I know. What I meant was that in actuality the rear exhaust fan does not have to be high performance to remove the heat. The roof fan is load, yes, but it is more than double the CFM to the rear one. Heat rises, so hot one more important than rear.

Tomorrow I am installing the Noctua fan, we shall see if any significant difference or not. My hope is at the very least I can remove the need to run the fans at 100% 24 hours a day. Just a hope...

Did you mean heat sink and fan or just changing a case fan?
 
OP
techiemon

techiemon

Member
Joined
Jan 29, 2007
I meant the heat sink.... I meant the heat sink... Wait is there an echo in here? :p:rofl:

Today will install the U12A. Just kind of hate the color, but.. if it works, that will be great.
 

freeagent

Member
Joined
Sep 15, 2004
Location
Winnipeg!
I have a little Meshify C, and every spot on the case where there could be a fan, I had a 120x38 there. I've been running like that with a Z77 system since I got the case about 2 years ago. Z77 died, kids lost their X58. I had to drop 2 of my thick fans due to the socket placement. I was then experimenting with another heatsink, and decided to put my big one back in, neglecting to put the 120x25 I was using behind it back in. The next day I took it a step further, and removed my top fans and installed the moduvent cover leaving just my front three Panaflo NMB's. I did see over all gains in temps across the motherboard, chipsets, GPU of about 3-5c with my fans at 7v. I haven't run RealBench yet to see how my GPU will effect this. Shouldn't be too bad because Panaflo. My CPU is still getting enough air because I didn't notice an increase of more than margin of error if any, testing with Linpack Xtreme.

Just to be real..

If your fans cant push to the back of the case, and out cleanly then you should be running at least one exhaust. But if your fans can push through and out with ease, you should be ok, depending on how much heat you are trying to dump, and what kind of ambients you are looking at. It probably wont be quiet though, or it might be.. My old 3770K was as hard or harder to cool then my 6 core. You have that tiny new tech, and a few more threads.. it might be warm regardless of what you do outside of extreme measures.. or it might not be! :D

I need a new computer.
 
OP
techiemon

techiemon

Member
Joined
Jan 29, 2007
Ladies and gentlemen behold what a Noctua NH-U12A can do.

Although the ambient cpu temperatures are nearly identical what is VERY noticeable is that the spikes are gone! No more 80C. I have successfully reduced my CPU temperatures by 10C with one heatsink change. I should not say the spikes are gone entirely, but the fact the the spikes are not even in the mid-70s is amazing.

And because the temps were so good, I reduced my CPU fan speeds down to 1500RPM to 1800RPM. My office is now slightly quieter. I could probably reduce more if I allow the cpu temps up into the 70s.

AC temp 26C. Real test will be tonight when the AC goes off.

Some notes. When we took off the cooler master fan, it basically just came off. My friend said there was not enough thermal paste. But here's the kicker, when he put on the new heatsink he used a ton of paste. He made an X across the CPU. Is that gonna be a pain to get off in the future or get gummy?

So far I am very very happy with the temperatures and performance. I believe that CPU temps are supposed to be this way, constant and stable even at full load. I will do a bench mark test also in the coming days to see how it performs their tasks. But I am running 16 WUs + 1 GPU and 0.997 CPU with Boinc. I have been running it full load now for four hours, and below is before and after.

View attachment 210261
 

EarthDog

Gulper Nozzle Co-Owner
Joined
Dec 15, 2008
Location
Buckeyes!
I could probably reduce more if I allow the cpu temps up into the 70s.
Sweet Jebus man, you were fine at 80/90C don't start this with 70C, lol....

Glad it worked for you. I would have saved the $100 though knowing the temps you had previously are just fine. :p
 

Kenrou

Member
Joined
Aug 14, 2014
Sweet Jebus man, you were fine at 80/90C don't start this with 70C, lol....

Glad it worked for you. I would have saved the $100 though knowing the temps you had previously are just fine. :p
The rig could've doubled as a space heater on those cold winter nights [emoji39]