HexaCore Restoration Project underway (AMD Phenom II 970 Zosma) *Pending 960T*

[Mandrake4565]

Storm-Chaser you may be reaching the limits of your cooling. I've seen some of my Phenom II chips get wonky above 55c others have been good over 60c. Just may want to take that into consideration before you purchase a mobo for it, thinking you may get it higher. Otherwise nice work.

 

[Bill Dimwit]

I recall the old PII having problems about 60c too. I had a 965be and once I hit around 60c it would give stability fits.

Nice work by the way. 4ghz on a old 6core is not bad if your on air. Did you try bumping up the NB/HT to 2.4ghz?
If memory serve me well (and is doesn't always) gigabyte had the best overlooking boards for the PII. Id go for a 990fx or something it you can get one for a good deal. Something like the Gigabyte GA-990FXA

 

[storm-chaser]

Thanks guys. I'm happy with the 4.Ghz clock speed for sure. This is about the most I can expect on air. If I disable 4 cores I can get it to post at 4.2ghz but no real need for that here. I want a good blend of reliability and speed across all cores seeing as this will be my main machine. And yes cooling system wise - it's always had a hyper 212+ on it and I've never had problems with this CPU at the 60*C mark. It's always been solid until well above that. I am really focusing the memory subsystem and that's where I'm most disappointed. I recall being able to run the CPU-NB at 3.0Ghz with a CPU-NB voltage of 1.28v on my old 880 mobo. And now, I can get 3.0Ghz, but I have to push the CPU-NB voltage all the way up to above 1.43 volts and I don't want to do that long term. And plus, some Phenom II's have an interesting quirk where they POST from a cold start but after a hot restart sometimes you'll just get a blank screen. This is especially true if you start tampering with the CPU-NB speed and really start leaning on it hard. On my old board I was able to resolve this issue easily by a slight voltage bump in the right places. On this board, it doesn't like hot restarts despite throwing a refrigerator sized amount of voltage at it. Also memory timings are less granular on this new board. I had about 20 more clock settings on my old board. I just assumed, incorrectly, that Biostar would stay true to the T-series name with this 970 based mobo.

 

[Mr.Scott]

You're in good shape.
Cooling is hurting you more than the board is.

 

[Mandrake4565]

Storm you're definitely going to see some variations in voltages going from one board to another. You can try putting a fan on the back side of the motherboard and also one on the VRM and NB heatsink. It may help you get the voltage lower for the 3.0 Ghz NB freq.

 

[storm-chaser]

You're in good shape.
Cooling is hurting you more than the board is.

As far as I can tell cooling is not the issue. Unless you are seeing something here I'm not? The CPU thermoprofile is the same on this mobo (given the same voltage) as on prior iterations. As I said, I am happy with the 4.0Ghz clock on air. I'm not worried about going any higher than that. It's just memory clocking options and NB voltage that are falling short of the mark, plus the hot restarts (which I was able to resolve very easily before).

I tried some FSB overclocking today and I can't get the NB past 3022mhz. On my old 880 board, I was able to get 3122mhz stable.
I also see another problem with the new board where I lose power to the whole system on some restarts. I have to wait 10-20 seconds between power cycles and it makes for a hassle when you are trying to get all the voltages dialed in. The only workaround is pulling the power cord, switching the power supply off, then holding the power button down for 5-10 seconds.

Overall, I would say the board works as it should, it just doesn't have the overclockability and voltage flexability I'd like to see with this processor.
I will likely be re-selling it and going back to basics with an 880 chipset based Biostar t-series. I'll stick to what I know works best. Stay tuned!

 

[Mr.Scott]

As far as I can tell cooling is not the issue. Unless you are seeing something here I'm not?

I see temps over 50c. Stability on those chips starts going south around 50-55c no matter what you do on any board.

 

[storm-chaser]

I see temps over 50c. Stability on those chips starts going south around 50-55c no matter what you do on any board.

Maybe so, but my two hour AIDA64 torture test did not reveal any stability issues and it was pushing 65*C near the end and for the last 30 minutes. The overclock of the CPU itself appears to be stable @ 4.0ghz. And again, that's not my concern. We crossed that off the mission list. It's just CPU NB and it's associations. I dont recommend running a CPU-NB voltage above 1.4v - shoudnt be necessary even at 3.0Ghz. As well as memory clocking. I like to have many options it helps when you start pushing the FSB. Something I really have not been able to do with this board, although I most admit it is a good looking piece!

Enjoy some pictures of the build!

Motherboard and Coolermaster case all cleaned up and ready for install!


Biostar TA970 with Thuban CPU installed:


Installation of brass ATX motherboard standoffs (with blood):


Nvidia GeForce GT 740 GPU:


CoolerMaster Hyper 212 in all its glory:


Coolermaster Hyper 212 evo vs Hyper + Fan (I used the + fan it seems to have better flow characteristics) :


Thats what we are looking for!


Fully Built System:




New Laptop (see build thread in laptop section):

 

[Mr.Scott]

It is all inter-related. IMC, which is on die, is just as hot as the rest of the processor. Hot things don't go as fast.

 

[storm-chaser]

Right, IMC is on the chip, but given that the Hyper 212 plus is the cooler I've had on this processor since day one, I can compare this build historically to prior iterations - Given that I know this processor inside and out - and I know what it is capable of at a given voltage leads me to believe the motherboard is the culprit. For example, If I have been able to run a 1.3v CPU NB @ 3.0Ghz on the old TA880GU3+ mobo, versus a massive 1.45v @ 3.0Ghz on my new TA970, we can conclude, with some certainty, that the motherboard is simply not running this processor as efficiently.

Theoretically, I should be able to purchase another TA880 based Biostar mobo and this same configuration should net me a stable CPU NB @ 1.3v @ 3.0Ghz- I've also had this CPU installed in another Biostar board, an A880g+ and the results were the same. With a 1.3v CPU-NB I was able to achieve 3.0Ghz stable. This leads me to believe the CPU IMC has the potential to be stable at 1.3v and it is in fact the motherboard that his holding me back.

It's also one of those things where you get new hardware and sometimes you can just tell it doesn't play nice with other components. That's the impression I'm getting with this new mobo. Not all is lost. It's just another stepping stone in my journey with Thuban. My choice, as it stands now, is whether I go up to a 990FX or down to an 880 where it has a proven track record of success. Plus, I am still waiting on my 80GB SSD so the build is sorta in limbo anyway.

 

[Bill Dimwit]

You should listen to scot, not only do most AMD CPUs of the era have a max rated temp of 55-62c, and fail to OC faster once you hit 55-60c, scot also probably knows far more then most of do about this kind of hardware. He has 117 subs for the 965be alone over at hwbot.

 

[storm-chaser]

You should listen to scot, not only do most AMD CPUs of the era have a max rated temp of 55-62c, and fail to OC faster once you hit 55-60c, scot also probably knows far more then most of do about this kind of hardware. He has 117 subs for the 965be alone over at hwbot.

Mr. Scott knows his stuff and I am listening to him. However, the CPU temps at idle and under full load are not much different from prior iterations. I had this processor in a 4.0Ghz overclock for close to 7 years. Never missed a beat and it's always been run on air.

After all, it was Scott who said in the very first reply that my overclock may not be the same from chipset to chipset, and he was exactly on point.

I thank everyone for their input here, it is much appreciated. I simply know I can do more with a better board. It's not abnormal to want something superior that better meshes with my existing hardware. Stay tuned for updates!

 

[storm-chaser]

Subbed. Very subbed. Since I'm putting together a rig of that vintage for benching and may have a line on a Thuban, I'm going to be going over this thread with a fine toothed comb.

While the CPU is technically outdated, I'm sure you know it still packs a lot of muscle. One way you can tell the value of a CPU is price point. If you look on eBay, 1100T chips are still selling for upwards of $150 - $200. They have held their value despite the obsolete design. This is a good indicator that we are working with a well designed and well thought out CPU that can still crunch numbers very well. Eventually, I'd like to get a PCI-E SSD drive for this rig and keep the system around until, say 2022 or so. I'm content with my Thuban for now

*after I obtain a new motherboard for more desirable CPU-NB performance*

 

[Alaric]

I have a Deneb (980 BE) temporarily in an XP rig and it flies. The Deneb/Thubans kill the FX chips in IPC, so until you get to big clocks or workstation level multi threaded applications it's still a better choice (IMO). The Visheras aren't bad, but my mobo takes the 980 to 4000 MHz on its own and I may try W7 on it next.

 

[Mandrake4565]

I have a Deneb (980 BE) temporarily in an XP rig and it flies. The Deneb/Thubans kill the FX chips in IPC, so until you get to big clocks or workstation level multi threaded applications it's still a better choice (IMO). The Visheras aren't bad, but my mobo takes the 980 to 4000 MHz on its own and I may try W7 on it next.

I always said the Fx chips would have been pretty darn good if they were just updated 4, 6 and 8 core versions of the PII Though I imagine the AMD engineers know far more then I about chip design.

 

[storm-chaser]

I always said the Fx chips would have been pretty darn good if they were just updated 4, 6 and 8 core versions of the PII Though I imagine the AMD engineers know far more then I about chip design.

For real. I've always thought that AMD should have done a Phenom II die shrink to 32nm and added an better IMC with support for 2133Mhz (or higher) memory.

 

[Alaric]

I always said the Fx chips would have been pretty darn good if they were just updated 4, 6 and 8 core versions of the PII Though I imagine the AMD engineers know far more then I about chip design.

You would think, but apparently they found a bar for lunch that ran EE specials on martinis. LOL Having poked the bear, I still say FX chips cover the needs of the vast majority of web surfers. And my 980, my first Deneb, is a beast for basic computing in XP. My Phenom X4 ran W7 like a race car. And for anything but heavy workloads, that 980 kills everything in the house except my Skylake.

 

[Bill Dimwit]

Same could have been said about Intel with the Piii and P4. The Piii line was a far better architecture and the 1.4ghz P3-s was out preforming first gent P4's. Inlet stuck with the netburst architecture not because it was a better CPU architecture but because the average Geo does not know much more then clock speed and core count. The FX was somewhat like wizes with its massively high clock speeds compared to the phenom 2.

 

[storm-chaser]

Hi Guys! I've been a little impatient waiting for another T series so decided to pull the trigger on a Biostar A880GZ instead, a micro atx board packed with features including integrated graphics so I can run a quad monitor display with this Phenom II rig. Only rated for 125W CPUs but we should be okay as these boards have pretty durable power components and I've had good luck with them in the past.

I will update this thread once the mobo arrives and hopefully, we will have better-overclocking results this time around. More specifically, I am hoping for 3,000Mhz CPU NB at 1.3V!

As for storage, we will be running two Intel 3500 series SSD drives in a RAID 0 configuration - be prepared for blistering read and write performance!

 

[Alaric]

Nice looking board. So many mobos from that era look like they were designed in Clown College. It still has a dash of yellow and purple, but it's a huge improvement over Gigabyte's box of broken crayons look. LOL