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Hey guys been a while. need some slight help!

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ForgottenUSA

Registered
Joined
May 4, 2022
Looking for some help would appreciate it if anyone might give some pointers etc.
Rig
CASE: THERMALTAKE TOWER 500
CPU: INTEL 12600K
COOLER: ARTIC II 360 "PULL ONLY CONFIGURATION"
MOTHERBOARD: MSI Z690 PRO "DDR5"
RAM: KINGSTON FURY DDR5 6000 "CL40"
GPU: EVGS FTW3 RTX 3070 Ti
PSU Temp: ROSEWILL CAPSTONE 850W GOLD RATED
DRIVE: SILICON POWER A60 2TB M.2
OP: WINDOWS 11 PRO

S1. My CPU seems to be 24hrs stable prime95 @ 5.0Ghz "no AVX offset" @ 1.18v
&
5.2ghz -2 AVX @ 1.25v
ROOM TEMP: 68F NIGHT & 74F DAY
PACKAGE TEMP: 80C MAX @ 1.18V
Q1. Is this good or bad, recommend going forward? Should I shoot for more or less? All I do is game really. 1440p

S2. Temps at Room: 73F - 75F Seem to push the Limit of the Artic AIO during Stress only Obviously. Pushes almost to 100c @ 1.28v and higher. I almost made it @5.4 -4 AVX but the Temps are my problem. "At least I Think"
SIDE INFO: If I start off with a custom Thermaltake Kit "240mm to start Thick 60mm" and start, there get a CPU block that is Nickle Plated I can use Liquid Metal between Copper IHS and the Block then. and in theory a custom kit should work better, and if I have to Ill add a second 240 or 280mm Rad. now to the Question....
Q2. If I do that above, should I get better cooling performance? btw 5.4ghz all cores seem to need above 1.3 I think I ran it for like 30 minutes and it crash cores were obviously maxed @ right around 100c.
 

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EarthDog

Gulper Nozzle Co-Owner
Joined
Dec 15, 2008
Location
Buckeyes!
1. Seems fine to me. The confusing part is listing your ambient temp in F and the rest in C, lol. Anyhoo, at 1440p it's not generally cpu limited.
2. I dont think the juice is worth the squeeze for more cooling (see your previous thread too about temps and improvements). But that is better, yes.
 
OP
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ForgottenUSA

Registered
Joined
May 4, 2022
***** PLEASE READ BEFORE CONTINUING*****
1. I don't cap to yell I am Capping so the IMPORTANT PARTS DONT GET MISSED JUST LIKE COLORS AND CAPITAL POSTS IN RULES ON SITES, SO PLEASE DONT TAKE MY CAPS AS YELLING I WANT IT TO STAND OUT! <----- THATS A YELL :D "NOT DISRESPECTFULLY"
2. I don't use C in my house @EarthDog. So that's why. In the computer world everyone universally uses C for Temps for Stuff but not in houses in the United States.
3. Please understand I'm here to provide my opinion and or get help when needed. If this isn't a place where people want to help and get but hurt well, I guess I shouldn't be here. <--- Again, what I'm saying isn't disrespectful I'm sharing my opinion and how I feel.


***CONVORSATION OR POST STARTING***

I would like to point out some things about previous thread but If I do it, I don't want no disrespect. :) I'm all for debating "respectfully of course". Im not implying anybody has been disrespectful yet. I'm just stating my expectations beforehand.
So here is my theory or opinion with the previous thread and now.

1. I always see people say it's not worth the few extra degrees or Mhz. I want to clarify MY Personal Point in all this. My point isn't to gain any improvement per say in gaming or FPS. Sometimes a few extra 100 points on 3D mark or also If I'm for EXAMPLE
CPU @ 5.2Ghz @ 1.3v and reach 88c. and my CPU will do 5.4Ghz @ 1.35v which isn't @ daily Limit for 24/7 Voltage wise but it hits 100c... but seems stable for 4 hours... that is worth improving friends... :D why? well because a few reasons actually. 1. being CPU Longevity heat kills so improving or doing something 5c colder over let's say 2, 5, 10 years... well it might actually matter. 2. A few degrees difference while stress testing can VERY EASILY make it unstable. I just proved a point myself this morning actually. I was keeping my computer on while changing my pull setup on rad to push. while running a stress test now granted, I was only @ 5Ghz and 1.16v Wanted to see if it would do 5Ghz @ 1.16v and it last for 2 hours @ that voltage prime 95 with AVX Enabled and after two hours I unplugged the fans while it was still running one at a time switched it over to other side of rad to keep some airflow still going and bang! restart. why because the temp for the two hours was a max of 62c but as soon as I took one fan off it slowly went up while I was working to 70c. 5 Ghz can or might be stable @ 5.0Ghz @ 1.16v under a specific temp of COURSE A LOT OF FACTORS go into this. It is my personal chip I get that I'm not saying it'll work for other people but cooling setups, chip silicon, etc. is on a person by person or rig by rig basis. So, I also want to point out that if I'm capped out because of TEMP THERE IS ALWAYS ROOM TO KEEP GOING UNTILL THE CPU silicon MAXES OUT imo. 5.4Ghz might be doable for me but I might not 1.35v well that's fine but I'm hitting a wall for temps means IF I CAN improve temps I can figure out if it'll be stable or not. maybe or maybe not but again might work for 24 hours @ 85c but won't last 24 hours @ 90c See my point?

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Next also I've seen people say it's about heat transfer well yeah that's the point.
my stock 12600k wouldn't do 5.2Ghz because of heat before de lid cause @ 1.28v it reached 100c UNSTABLE
DE lidded it WHICH helps what? well, it helped the Heat Transfer.... I'm in the same boat again why? I'll explain...
if you take liquid metal and put it on top of CPU between cooler and CPU, I've always seen between 8c and 15c drops ALWAYS.
well in my case I delidded it and put a copper IHS. same thing as above but reversed but in THIS CASE.... I CAN'T USE LIQUID METAL ON TOP OF CPU.
what happen after I added liquid metal and the copper IHS. I saw about a 18c drop personally "AGAIN MAY NOT BE THE SAME FOR EVERYONE ELSE"
so, in theory there should be a small improvement by using a Nickle played CPU block in a custom water-cooling setup... why should there be at least some improvement? well most people understand that the heat transfer there's normally some sort of weak point or limitation... people use liquid metal on top of CPU to drop temps because in simple terms it works at transferring heat better right? right. so. normally adding liquid metal on top of CPU is way better, but at some point, you hit a wall because of the OEM TIM between the DIE and the IHS. So, what did I do since my last post? I delidded it, REPLACED THE LIMITING FACTOR. worked just like the reverse. Instead of hitting 90c @ 5.0ghz I can now do 5.2Ghz but now I hit that brick wall again because in my case I Can't use liquid metal on top without a Nickle played CPU block....
so was 5Ghz to 5.2Ghz worth it some say no. but now I'm at 5.2ghz and I'm thinking 5.4 will work but not without 1.3 -1.4 volts. max I'm willing Togo for daily usage.
I personally think a stock CPU if the CPU and other conditions allow for 5.4ghz but in order Todo so means, delid + liquid metal + Copper IHS + more Liquid Metal + Nickle plated CPU block + Custom Cooling well a lot of $ for sure. but depends on personal preference of what the point of going from 5 - 5.4ghz will do. who knows maybe I got a golden chip "UNLIKLEY" but maybe it'll do 5.4ghz with all that done and only hit 80c @ 1.4v who knows.... or maybe 1.45v and 5.5ghz. but without getting rid of the heat in simple not going to happen.


Previous thread I was refering too above: https://www.overclockers.com/forums/threads/noob-here-help-12600k-oc-temps-settings.801236/
 

Johan45

Benching Team Leader Super Moderator
Joined
Dec 19, 2012
S1. My CPU seems to be 24hrs stable prime95 @ 5.0Ghz "no AVX offset" @ 1.18v
&
5.2ghz -2 AVX @ 1.25v
ROOM TEMP: 68F NIGHT & 74F DAY
PACKAGE TEMP: 80C MAX @ 1.18V
Q1. Is this good or bad, recommend going forward? Should I shoot for more or less? All I do is game really. 1440p
Pushes almost to 100c @ 1.28v and higher. I almost made it @5.4 -4 AVX but the Temps are my problem. "At least I Think"

3. Please understand I'm here to provide my opinion and or get help when needed. If this isn't a place where people want to help and get but hurt well, I guess I shouldn't be here. <--- Again, what I'm saying isn't disrespectful I'm sharing my opinion and how I feel.
I hope you understand that we are here to offer guidance and opinions FOR FREE I might add.
I'm not sure why you feel you have been slighted. In the other thread, you said you were going to delid, some opinions were "is that really worth the cost".
OK, so you delidded and now have better temps but your goal of 5.4 GHz is still out of reach because of heat-induced instability. You can keep going down the rabbit hole improving this and that and maybe attaining your goal but at the end of the day, gaming at 1440p isn't going to improve a whole lot.
Everyone has opinions that's what we're here for and our initial opinion was valid, if all you mostly do is game at 1440p then adding a few hundred MHz isn't going to improve things and IN OUR OPINION ISN"T WORTH IT!
I have been a competitive Overclocker for quite a while (not so much lately) constantly chasing a few more MHz for a slightly better score than someone else just for rankings. To me, it seemed to be worth it but I also spent a lot of $$ and time, and in the end, I'm satisfied.
If this is just a personal quest for the highest possible overclock then say that and we can help. When you ask if this is good we say yes when you ask if it's worth going higher and spending more money on gaming we say no.
Maybe you're just being unclear about what your ultimate goal is
 

EarthDog

Gulper Nozzle Co-Owner
Joined
Dec 15, 2008
Location
Buckeyes!
***** PLEASE READ BEFORE CONTINUING*****
...
2. I don't use C in my house @EarthDog. So that's why. In the computer world everyone universally uses C for Temps for Stuff but not in houses in the United States.
3. Please understand I'm here to provide my opinion and or get help when needed. If this isn't a place where people want to help and get but hurt well, I guess I shouldn't be here. <--- Again, what I'm saying isn't disrespectful I'm sharing my opinion and how I feel.
2. We all talk in C overclockers.com, be it US or wherever..this is the language we speak here. The language of computers is Celsius. So, for those who speak the language, as 99% do at this site, seeing them in both can be confusing like I said earlier. It was just a suggestion to help those help you. :)
3. I don't know why you're saying this. That's what all people feel, no? Like...what are you getting at??! (Respectfully, I don't care/that was rhetorical, please don't answer, lol...I just want to help with PC stuff, not deal with drama that doesn't exist :) )

Prologue of yours aside, I find it curious that you seem concerned about preserving the life of the chip, yet, you're overclocking and adding voltage/running it out of spec and delidding (obliterating the warranty already)......and all for gaming at a non-CPU bound resolution in the first place.


So, those disclaimers out of the way, WHAT DO YOU NEED FROM US? You asked questions and got answers. I think your temps are fine for your clocks. If you want to push up higher (that's not up to us......) do it! If you prefer temperatures to be lower, do it! I don't think it's worth it, but you asked us the question, lol. We said you're fine, if you want faster and cooler, we're still here to help! Let's focus on that moving forward. :)

EDIT: Heh, didn't see Johan's post above mine, lol.
 
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ForgottenUSA

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May 4, 2022
I came here to get advice on how things look voltages, Temps, clocks, thoughts on my tests or results.

I also came here to get the most or higher clocks. I want to push as far as I can. I'm willing to buy a custom kit. And work to push it. I'm not overclocking for gaming only I said that above lol....I want someone to help me and further educate me on overclocking.

Ps. listen i tried so hard up above to make it appoint I don't want disrespect and arguing or drama. You said drama that doesn't exist. It doesn't exist because back in March I wanted to tell you then "hey bud, kind of want to push everything I can out of it." But instead I walked away. because of your responses. I feel like this is only going to affect your answers at this point. It wouldn't if it were me. But not everyone can do that I understand hope not. I'm not mad. I promise just want to get help thats all. Thats the point of this site or am I wrong?
 

EarthDog

Gulper Nozzle Co-Owner
Joined
Dec 15, 2008
Location
Buckeyes!
Total gaslighting, but we're moving past this... :grouphug: :thup: .

So, let me see if I got this right... at this point, you're limited by temps. So as you already know, you need to step up the cooling/get a custom water cooling loop to help drop the temps. Your current cooler is practically a custom loop performace-wise already (one of the best 'AIOs' out there). Are you able to add a radiator on to it? Perhaps that's a good route to go. If not, yep, full custom is your only choice since you've already delidded.

That said, you already have 3x120mm worth of radiator. More will help a couple/few degrees. But the inherent problem with these CPUs still exist (transistor density on small die). So the point of diminishing returns comes quickly. Even if you double up on the radiator area you will see a couple/few degree difference at most. I'm not trying to discourage you, but simply want to set up expectations of the outcome. ;)

So, if you can add on to that loop, toss another rad in there and see what that does for you. If not, let's talk budget for a custom water loop to reach your goals. :)
 
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ForgottenUSA

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May 4, 2022
ok thanks earthdog. I apricate it I'm sorry for all the bs. and yes. so....
Option 1: Cut the tubes add a 2nd rad with barbed fittings put together something might drop a few degrees... maybe. idk about this one but not counting it out
Option 2: buy a custom 240 or 280 kit... with a nickle plated cpu block? and use liquid metal that should be worth something right Earthdog? I mean I'm asking but feeling this option as better?
Then I should also add, might want to cool my gpu down the line? so thats why I feel id be better moving onto custom kit? but not the goal at this second.
And yes Im asking this. Do you really feel a custom 240 from thermaltake or EKWB will not be better then the Artic II 360?
Post magically merged:

As far as budget goes looking at these two options
1: https://www.newegg.com/thermaltake-...re=C240-_-35-106-585-_-Product&quicklink=true
2: https://www.ekwb.com/shop/ek-classic-kit-p240-d-rgb-black-nickel-edition
 
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EarthDog

Gulper Nozzle Co-Owner
Joined
Dec 15, 2008
Location
Buckeyes!
Do you need to cut the tubes? I don't know much about that cooler, but a cursory look shows barbs around the block area? Confirm if it can be added onto or not. I'd go custom before I start hacking a perfectly good AIO.

I don't think the gains you'll get from moving away from that AIO to a custom 240/280 kit is worth any temperature gain. For your goals, I'd go AT LEAST the same size rad... add fans for a push/pull (you can do that now and perhaps save a couple of degrees...). Not sure what you're saying about nickel and liquid metal... just use the liquid metal TIM on whatever block you decide on. There isn't a magic combination I know of RE this and that metal, etc.

That's correct... I'll say it a third time (alluded to it in the paragraph above, lol)... I don't feel a custom loop with a 240/280 rad would be BETTER (in a worthwhile sense... are you willing to accept a couple of degrees - at best - instead of a few?) than what you have, correct.
 
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ForgottenUSA

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So, a few problems. Brand new Case I have I don't like the 360mm Mount. Ill post some pictures to show what I mean.
This case does perfect for 2 x 240 or 2 x 280mm rads. not two 360 or even 1 360. the mounting for the 360 is offset and gapped between the outlet. STUPID DESIGN....
I have 6 x 120mm Cooler master Jet flow Fans and had them in a push/Pull and temps were worse. idk why?
As you can tell from the pics the 360mm rad mount is off set and like two inches or three away from the exhaust point. and even with fans on the pull side still leaves an inch away and air gets pushed too the sides of the case... so I came up with this solution. let me know what you think about it see post below or bottom or last two pictures. check out my case here: if you haven't already...
You can mount a 240 at the bottom of the case. and you can lay the rad horizontal or vertical as shown in picture. I want to lay it horizontal drawing airflow from bottom of case not the front bottom as pictures.
then mount another 240 or 280 at top as air flows into case COLD "BOTTOM" draws air up catches GPU air then through the top lines up with science as well heat rises :D yay me? 0.o idk anyways. but that's the idea not to mention I can use this 360 AIO on a project for another build which is overkill but that's the point and two 240 should be better even if by 2c combined with the whole nickel-plated thing, which brings me to that... MOST PEOPLE DONT HAVE COPPER IHS. I HAVE A PURE COPPER IHS. YOU CANNOT PUT LIQUID METAL BETWEEN COPPER AND COPPER..... added a picture too. You can do this but over time it'll eat it away. and between pure copper and nickel plate THIS DOES NOT HAPPEN :D. so that is why I keep bringing it up.
and at the end of all this if i do 2 x 240 or a 240 and 280 I can safely do a GPU with room to spare. :D let me know what you think if I am missing anything please let me know!
Post magically merged:

and yes, I would have to cut tubes then buy a rad then by barbed fittings and more hose too makeshift something at the end i could just put it back together with couplings then it would be even more ugly. as you can tell on one of the hoses, I investigated this already :S
 

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EarthDog

Gulper Nozzle Co-Owner
Joined
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Location
Buckeyes!
Never liked thise horizontal mobo cases...

It fits a 360, but you don't seem to like that...no problem. So, go 2x280 rads if you want... the point was that you already have 3x120 so you need more than what you have.

So if there's a metal issue between copper and nickel or w/e guess you don't have a choice (good to know, and ty, but why was that a question, lol). I though you said you delided? You put a copper IHS back on? Apologies if I missed it.

Maybe I wasn't clear... as it stands, 2x280 rads won't yield too much of a temp difference over what you have. If you pour 8n another 250W from the gpu, that's surely going to raise temps. If you want to add a gpu, either put it in its own loop or get more rad when the time comes.

As far as airflow, front/sides = intake, top/rear = exhaust is generally how it works best. You want the rads to get cool air for best results. So front and bottom mounts. That said, I typically mount rads on front and top. Some slightly warmed air gets in there, but I'm not worried about the mobo. ;)
 
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ForgottenUSA

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that's the one I went with and yes, they put it on its better than stock, but as a result you can no longer use copper heatsinks or pure aluminum it has to be nickel or whatever lol learned the hard way :( and researched it.
yeah, seems best route to go :( and might do a seperate loop for gpu good idea use the artic II? lol can that be done>
 
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ForgottenUSA

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Never liked thise horizontal mobo cases...

It fits a 360, but you don't seem to like that...no problem. So, go 2x280 rads if you want... the point was that you already have 3x120 so you need more than what you have.

So if there's a metal issue between copper and nickel or w/e guess you don't have a choice (good to know, and ty, but why was that a question, lol). I though you said you delided? You put a copper IHS back on? Apologies if I missed it.

Maybe I wasn't clear... as it stands, 2x280 rads won't yield too much of a temp difference over what you have. If you pour 8n another 250W from the gpu, that's surely going to raise temps. If you want to add a gpu, either put it in its own loop or get more rad when the time comes.

As far as airflow, front/sides = intake, top/rear = exhaust is generally how it works best. You want the rads to get cool air for best results. So front and bottom mounts. That said, I typically mount rads on front and top. Some slightly warmed air gets in there, but I'm not worried about the mobo. ;)
I will turn it into an intake for Rad and see temp differences. but that will only leave one fan for exhaust
 

EarthDog

Gulper Nozzle Co-Owner
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Location
Buckeyes!
Yeah, that case isn't really typical so it's going to be a trial-and-error situation. If you go 2x280, mount bottom and top with 3 fans blowing in from the front.