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How can you tell a quality third party Laptop AC charger and Laptop battery

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c627627

c(n*199780) Senior Member
Joined
Feb 18, 2002
Other than buying name brand original Laptop AC charger and a Laptop replacement battery (of course)... what separates bottom of the barrel pricing five dollar chargers and ten dollar laptop batteries from everything else that stands in between them and the one hundred dollar original replacement Laptop battery and $80 AC chargers.

Because there are many, many priced in between at various levels.

I am looking for an HP G6 (really G62) Laptop charger and Laptop battery.
 

EarthDog

Gulper Nozzle Co-Owner
Joined
Dec 15, 2008
Location
Buckeyes!
I cannot be detailed on a technical level for this. Sorry. That said, after research I did for buying a battery last year for my wife's Toshiba, the cheapO ones use different cells, may lack modern certs (UL1642), and its designed life is likely shorter (less full charges). Also what one tends to find is even though the batteries sit idle, when they sit, they lose their ability to charge to capacity. So they may take old stock and sell it cheap. Not terribly helpful on the level I am most certain you want it. but, its a start at a high level for the inevitable deep dive.

If I was you, I would look at what the legit OEM cells are, their rating (mAh and Wh), and compare that to the cheaper ones until you find the answer you are looking for.

Subscribed for more details........... :)
 

NiHaoMike

dBa Member
Joined
Mar 1, 2013
If you can find a reputable source for the individual cells, it's likely cheaper than buying a new pack.

For the PSU, just get a universal unit from a reputable brand like Kensington or Innergie. It is also worth noting that original HP laptop PSUs are really poor quality.
 
OP
c627627

c627627

c(n*199780) Senior Member
Joined
Feb 18, 2002
What is involved in manually replacing individual cells?
I suppose the only other question on that would be if anyone know a reputable source on that.

You suggestion about Kensington / Innergie is gold because they are cheaper and from what you are saying better than original HP, which is excellent advice to anyone wanting to spend money on chargers and batteries.
 

NiHaoMike

dBa Member
Joined
Mar 1, 2013
Pretty much just clipping out the old cells and soldering in the new ones, taking care not to short anything out. It would help to make friends with a local hackerspace member, since they often do that a lot. They'll also often reuse the old cells for less demanding applications.

For a reputable source, the R/Cers will probably know although they are likely more familiar with lipos. Probably the best 18650s in existence are the ones Tesla uses, but I'm not sure of a good source to get just a few.
 
OP
c627627

c627627

c(n*199780) Senior Member
Joined
Feb 18, 2002
Hm... sounds to me like these people wouldn't mind doing this for money. What is their web site?
You give them the old battery, they put in new cells.
Wonder how much they would charge and what the actual real life difference is between what they would do and the $12 Laptop battery on Amazon.

I mean the math would be that $24 gets you two batteries each one lasting X months. Assuming you have Amazon Prime for hassle free returns of lemons since cheapo batteries either hold charge and get five stars or don't (are lemons) and get one star reviews, so you can't really tell the comparison between the ones that are not lemons and whatever it would cost to pay for a cell swap at one of the sites you mention for people who dislike desoldering.

I think your advice on Laptop chargers was stellar, other than two brand names you mentioned, any third or fourth honorable mentions?



Actually I've done this before, pay someone to soldier an old Play Station. I may have their number still.
So actually the question still really is where would I get the cells?
 

NiHaoMike

dBa Member
Joined
Mar 1, 2013
Just search "hackerspace". If you're in a big city, there's a good chance there will be several in your area. The most valuable service they offer is super cheap education. The "teach a man to fish, feed him for a lifetime" adage is key. Find someone who is experienced at doing it and he/she will show you hands on how to do it so you'll be able to do it yourself in the future.

Antec, Anker, and Tronsmart also make great PSUs, but I think the latter two only do USB-C. Innergie is Delta's brand for consumer products and is probably the best you'll find in store.
 

larrymoencurly

Member
Joined
Jul 14, 2002
Look for safety certifications, like UL, CSA, TUV, ETL, c-tick (Australian), but ignore C E (European) because it's done on the honor system and requires no submission of samples for testing, plus C E looks almost exacly like CE (China Export), which is not a safety certification. Some certifications, like FCC, are for electromagnetic interference, not safety. Some of these certifications always include a registration number that can be verified by the associated company (if you look at an AC electrical cable or a USB cable, you'll likely see the UL or CSA number), but occasionally products show fake certifications, usually with no registration number, sometimes fake numbers, but sometimes even real numbers. I've found that dealers will tell you if their products are registered or not.

AC power adapter UL approved not UL approved usbenclosurespowersuppl.jpg



If you think getting an AC adapter with a 3-wire AC power cord will at least keep you from getting electrocuted if you use a 3-prong grounded AC outlet, think again. Here are photos of a UL-approved AC adapter included with a WD USB hard drive and a noncertified adapter provided with a Bytecc USB hard drive enclosure. The latter uses a 3-wire power cord, but it attaches to nothing inside the adapter. Also notice the number of components each adapter contains. The WD one has parts on both sides of the circuit board, the Bytecc on just one side, with nothing to prevent excessive voltage in case the regulation fails, and there's no noise filter to block interference from radiating out through the power cord. A lot of laptops use 19V DC, with the positive connection in the center and the negative (ground) on the outer barrel, so their AC adapters are interchangeable. I use a Dell AC adapter for my old Toshiba laptop because the Dell's has a grounded power cord. However newer Dells require that the AC adapter send out a description of itself, to prevent the computer from overloading them, and the connector is a bit different, but not necessarily incompatible.

recfognized-certification-marks-mar2016.jpg



As for batteries, I don't know, but I'd probably rather have an old battery rebuilt with new major brand cells because I believe lithium batteries are supposed to contain a temperature sensor, and fakes have this replaced with a resistor that won't tell the temperature but just fools the charger into believing the temperature is always the same. Batteries normally warm up as they approach full charge, and if the temperature sensor isn't used as the primary method of determining full charge, then it's used as a backup.
 
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c627627

c627627

c(n*199780) Senior Member
Joined
Feb 18, 2002
larrymoencurly, thank you for a very informative post.

You are saying find a compatible Dell charger but do a battery rebuild. Any links to where to order what's needed for a quality rebuild?
Excellent post by the way. Thank you.
 

trents

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 27, 2008
Depending on how old the laptop is, with a Dell it may not accept third party replacements, especially batteries. Dell has taken to putting ID chips in their batteries and chargers for some of their newer laptop products. I can tell you this from recent personal experience and if you research it you will see that this is an issue.
 

knoober

Member
Joined
Mar 18, 2015
Depending on how old the laptop is, with a Dell it may not accept third party replacements, especially batteries. Dell has taken to putting ID chips in their batteries and chargers for some of their newer laptop products. I can tell you this from recent personal experience and if you research it you will see that this is an issue.

If you have an original battery on hand it might be worth trying to swap the cells. Then you would have the proper ID chip you need along with brand new cells. If you are handy with a soldering iron it is a pretty trivial task to align the new cells in proper polarity and connect the wires to the controller chip.

The biggest trouble by far is separating the thin straps of metal that have been tac welded to the ends. I've read that you can use a utility knife to separate the but I find a small screwdriver used as a chisel has okay results. Sometimes the strip does get wrecked though so be careful and plan a replacement beforehand . I've currently got 2 batteries in limbo while I work on other projects because I can't think of what to replace that strip with other than tinfoil
 

EarthDog

Gulper Nozzle Co-Owner
Joined
Dec 15, 2008
Location
Buckeyes!
Sounds like a monumental PITA to swap cells.. at least from a time and cost perspective. I'd rather spend $20ish more for a quality known good unit than to splice in new batteries. Hell, I could have ordered it and and replaced it in the time this thread has lasted. :p
 

knoober

Member
Joined
Mar 18, 2015
Sounds like a monumental PITA to swap cells.. at least from a time and cost perspective. I'd rather spend $20ish more for a quality known good unit than to splice in new batteries. Hell, I could have ordered it and and replaced it in the time this thread has lasted. :p

You have to consider my skill level and tools as well. Soldering is not a strong point for me at all, but I think someone more accomplished might not have so many issues as I did. I only suggested it for trents because of the particular issue he mentioned : that third part batteries weren't working because of ID chips.

As a side point: the reading I have done on the subject suggests that often only 1 or 2 cells is bad, but recommendations seem to be for complete replacement as a best practice
 
OP
c627627

c627627

c(n*199780) Senior Member
Joined
Feb 18, 2002
For me the issue of cost and time would include paying someone to do it since it's not just one battery, I have five or six identical laptops used by friends & family so I can use the same drive images on all.

But before finding out the cost of someone else doing multiple cell swaps, I am still unclear where exactly you guys get cells from?
 

knoober

Member
Joined
Mar 18, 2015
I am still unclear where exactly you guys get cells from?

As to that, you will want to read and read some more, but the regular e-tailers will have them at varying prices for varying sets. When I looked into it I found that there is quite an avid community that has evolved around such things. There are quite a few different kinds and each is good for its own purpose. It seems that Lithium ion 18650's are pretty regular for a laptop cell (regardless of brand) but they are not the only kind. There are many different brands as well. Panasonic and Samsung are the top dogs of the rechargeable 18650 crew (again, do your reading because I could be wrong). They are considered to be the most reliable, but are also the most expensive. If you crack open one of the packs you have now there will likely be Panasonic or Samsung cells inside.

The inexpensive replacement battert packs are likely filled with low/mid quality cells, but I don't really see a way around that besides searching out your own on Amazon/ebay/Newegg etc. And honestly unless a very low quality cell is used, you are looking at a battery that will have 1/2 the charge and recharge cycles compared to the top brands. But that is about the price difference usually also

There are 2 types of cells, protected and unprotected. Make sure you get the correct ones (unprotected I believe). There is little difference between them (for these purposes) except that little raised nipple at the top of most batteries. If you buy cells that have that have that little nipple then you will not be able to close your battery pack after the cells are changed.
 
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c627627

c627627

c(n*199780) Senior Member
Joined
Feb 18, 2002
Yes. Of course.
Maybe I can rephrase the question that goes out to all members of our forum here:
Where did you personally order your cells from, what was your personal choice ?
 

larrymoencurly

Member
Joined
Jul 14, 2002
I'm saying find a compatible AC power adapter that's approved by one of those safety associations, and it's better if it uses a 3-wire AC power cord. I mentioned Dell only because I happened to have one of their AC adapters, and it worked with my Toshiba. As for the importance of a 3-wire cord, it should protect better against surges, and a long time ago Toshiba told people to solve a problem with their model A215 Satellites crashing from AC line surges/noise by switching to a different brand power supply with 3-wire cord.

Don't buy a replacement battery unless you know it's made from high quality lithium cells and has the proper temperature sensor. By having your old battery rebuilt, you can be pretty sure you'll end up with something that meets those recommendations, but still ask what brand cells will be used. You want something like Samsung, Varta, Panasonic, Sony, or Sanyo. And do replace all the cells, and make sure each one is the same brand so they'll charge up and discharge more evenly, won't cause some cells to carry more of the load or go into reverse polarity if discharged too much, and won't overcharge compared to other cells.

The mainstream electronic parts suppliers, i.e., authorized distributors, are the best sources of cells and include companies like Digi-Key, Avnet, MCM, and Newark, but they're pricey.
 
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