How to build a 3+ghz, 200+mhz FSB dual Xeon thread...for cheap ;)

[dustybyrd]

Hopefully, this will be a good resource for those interested in building a powerful and relatively inexpensive dual Xeon system. It is a work in progress and all suggestions are welcome. This thread isn't designed to list all Xeon motherboards/CPUs, just the inexpensive, highly overclockable ones

The cheap, good 875 chipset based motherboards....

GOOD PERFORMANCE:

Asus PC-DL (<$200, but no official EMT64, Nocona Xeon support, no PCI-X)
FSB jumper can be set to "unofficial" 200mhz
(look in this link for 200mhz FSB on PC-DL: http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=50314 )
Manufacturer's website:
http://usa.asus.com/products/server/srv-mb/pc-dl/overview.htm
Purchase websites:
http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=240331
http://www.ewiz.com/detail.php?p=MB-PCDL-DX&c=pw

MAXIMUM PERFORMANCE:

Asus NCCH-DL (<$250, EMT64, Nocona Xeon support with two VRMs, VDIMM control in bios, separate 4x and 2x SATA RAID ports, two PCI-X slots--these are 64bit/66mhz slots, not PCI Express)
FSB jumper can be set to 200mhz
Manufacturer's website:
http://usa.asus.com/prog/spec.asp?m=NCCH-DL&langs=09
Purchase website:
http://www.ewiz.com/detail.php?name=MB-NCCH-DL

Iwill DH800 (<$300, EMT64, Nocona Xeon support with two VRMs, two PCI-X slots)
FSB jumper can be set to 200mhz
Manufacturer's website:
http://www.iwillusa.com/products/ProductDetail.asp?vID=186
Purchase website:
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=13-129-131R&depa=1


LINK TO COMPARISON OF DH800 and NCCH-DL:

http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?p=3803693#post3803693

The Xeons...

If you want 200mhz FSB, then you need to pick the 1.6ghz LV or the 2.4ghz 533mhz Xeons, because of the 16x or 18x bootstrap multiplier...most, if not all, other Prestonia Xeons will not boot at 200mhz FSB!!!

GOOD PERFORMANCE:

1.6ghz D1 stepping SL6XK <$120 shipped for two (see ebay sales by lapcompute http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZlapcompute )
These typically are stable at 3ghz, with the best chips doing 3.3ghz

MAXIMUM PERFORMANCE:

2.4ghz 533mhz FSB $250-325 shipped for two, D1/M0 stepping SL6YN, SL6VL, SL74T, SL73L, SL72D
D1 2.4ghz Xeons usually do 3.2ghz (range 3-3.5ghz)
M0 2.4ghz Xeons usually do 3.4ghz (range 3.2-3.8ghz)
CHECK EBAY FREQUENTLY
Purchase website: $170 each
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=19-117-015R&type=Refurbished

***ANOTHER PURCHASE SITE FOR THE 2.4ghz M0 stepping Xeons:
http://starpcexcess.com/new_page_2.htm

***EDIT: be careful with this company; they appear to be a branch of this company:

http://www.starmicro.net/about.aspx?WebID=421fa493-abd3-4018-8abc-b876aa3f3966

that has terrible reseller ratings:

http://www.resellerratings.com/seller3802-p3-s1-d1.html

***Note, that I did receive one SL73L Xeon that was not stable at stock speeds and voltages; I confirmed this by using only that cpu in the main CPU-0 socket (the other cpu was fine). The next day I was able to exchange for a working SL73L Xeon and I didn't have to pay anything; however, I was able to drive to them, as it's only a 40 minute drive for me.


PIN MODDING SOCKETS TO GET higher CPU voltage for 3+Ghz: 1.6v

Simple pin mod of sockets to get 1.6v VCORE:
Use a thin strand of copper speaker wire cut 8-9mm in link and made into a U shape and this is a good link to follow:
Link #1 :
http://www.datamine.tk/pages/article.asp?TID=18
Link #2 :
http://www.datamine.tk/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=14&PN=1
Link #3 :
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=50314


For 1.6Ghz and 2.4Ghz 1.3v Low Voltage Xeons connect B2-B3, C2-C3, D2-D3

For 2.4ghz 1.5v Xeons connect D2-D3

To get more than 1.6v VCORE (be careful!):
http://www.datamine.tk/pages/article.asp?TID=28


RAM

PC3200+, NON-REGISTERED, DDR with 2.5-2.7v rating (RAM rated at 2.8v is risky as it may not work without a VDIMM mod), dual channel kits are best, since the 875 based boards have dual channel and performance enhancing technology (PAT) enabled on them.

GOOD PERFORMANCE:

PC3500 Kingmax (works well with low voltage, makes a good match with the PC-DL, since this board doesn't support VDIMM adjustments without modifications) (~$140 for 512mb x 2)
Purchase website:
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=20-156-022&depa=1

MAXIMUM PERFORMANCE:

To date, the best RAM for the NCCH-DL or DH800 is low latency, PC3200 with Samsung TCCD chips (It's possible that BH-5 will work just as well, but they may need more voltage for faster FSB speeds than these boards can supply without modification. From one user account it appears that BH5 RAM will run up to 210mhz at cas 2,2,2,6 with 2.8v VDIMM). These are some good examples:

Mushkin Level II V2 PC3200 (~$220-240 for 512mb x 2)
Purchase website:
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=20-146-355&depa=1

Patriot XBL PC3200 (~$220 for 512mb x 2)
Purchase website:
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=20-220-033&depa=1

G.Skill F1-3200DSU2-1GBLD Samsung TCCD ($232 for 512mb x 2)
Purchase website:
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=20-231-004&depa=0

pqi TURBO Series pc3200 ($245 for 512mb x 2)
Purchase website:
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=20-141-148&depa=1

Not sure if TCCD, but should work at <2.8v with cas 2,2,2,6:
Crucial Ballistix 184-Pin 512MB DDR PC-3200 – ($230 for 512mb x 2)
Purchase website:
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=20-146-546&depa=1

These RAM can be run at 200-220+mhz with 2,2,2,6 timings, and I have found that tight timings increase performance by up to 8% over loose timings and even outperform high FSB with loose timings (like 2.5,3,3,x or 3,3,3,x, or 3,4,4,x) particularly with encoding video

NOTE: These boards support up to 4gb of RAM, but using 4 sticks of 512mb of RAM may impede performance substantially (including no PAT)

VDIMM mod for more RAM voltage (be careful!):
Link #1 :
http://www.datamine.tk/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=19&PN=1
Link #2 :
http://www.datamine.tk/pages/article.asp?TID=28


The Heatsinks:

GOOD PERFORMANCE:

Stock Intel Wind Tunnels (check to make sure the Wind Tunnels you get will work with the motherboard you choose, the NCCH-DL and DH800 may not take Prestonia based Wind Tunnels without mods)
Purchase website:
http://www.acmemicro.com/estore/merchant.ihtml?pid=705&lastcatid=61&step=4
made quiet with 60-80mm fan adaptors and Sanyo Denki Petit Ace 25 (this good Ebayer sells them for cheap http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZdb45acp ) 80mm fans.

MAXIMUM PERFORMANCE

PC-DL (you must use Prestonia based heat sinks on this board):

Coolermaster E3W-NPTXC-01 with Sanyo Denki Petit Ace 25
Purchase website:
http://www.orbitmicro.com/products/accessories/cpu fans/E3W-NPTXC-01.htm
EUROPE:
http://www.hsm-zamecki.de/shop/index.htm?3u_cooler_for_intel_xeon_prestonia.htm

Swifttech MCX603-V:
Purchase website:
http://www.frozencpu.com/cpu-swi-03.html?id=9Fi3cV7V

WATER COOLING:
Purchase website:
PX - http://www.frozencpu.com/ex-blc-157.html


NCCH-DL (and I believe DH800) (you must use Nocona based heat sinks on this board, even though you are using Prestonia based Xeons):

Coolermaster E3W-NPTXS-04 with Sanyo Denki Petit Ace 25
Purchase website:
http://www.orbitmicro.com/products/accessories/cpu fans/E3W-NPTXS-04.htm
EUROPE:
http://www.hsm-zamecki.de/shop/index.htm?3u_cooler_for_intel_xeon_prestonia.htm

Swifttech MCX604-V:
Purchase website:
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=35-108-046&depa=1

WATER COOLING:
Purchase website:
NX - http://www.frozencpu.com/ex-blc-155.html


POWER SUPPLIES...

GOOD PERFORMANCE (EPS12v recommended):

Sparkle/Fortron FSP550-60PLG (one 36A 12v rail) $90
Purchase website:
http://www.ewiz.com/detail.php?name=PS-SP550PG&show=p

Fortron FSP550-60PLN (split, 18A 12v rails) $91
Purchase website:
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=17-104-982&depa=0

PC Power and Cooling 510XE (EPS12v) $200
Purchase website:
http://www.pcpowerandcooling.com/pr.../maxperformance/turbocools/index_hp_atx-3.htm

Antec EPS12v TP550 $115
Purchase website:
http://www.excaliberpc.com/product_info.php?cPath=208_612&products_id=1278

OCZ 520 $140
Purchase website:
http://www.newegg.com/app/viewprodu...7-104-152&ATT=Power+Supplies&CMP=OTC-d3alt1me

AMS Mercury 460W and 550W EPS12V with split +12V rails $50-$91
Purchase website:
http://www.directron.com/pp4306.html
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduct.asp?submit=property&DEPA=0

Super Flower / TTGI 550W w/140mm quiet fan $80
Purchase website:
http://store.4linkcomm.com/sufltttttibl.html

Tagan 480W $79
Purchase website:
http://www.newegg.com/app/viewprodu...9&CMP=OTC-pr1c3watch&ATT=Power+Supply+for+Cas

Zippy/Emacs

While you may not have to use an EPS12v power supply, it is recommended.
I have also used a PCP&C 510 deluxe (ATX) with a 20-24pin and 4-8pin convertor successfully with dual 2.4ghz Xeons at 3.5ghz....here is where I got the adaptor: http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=12-183-045&depa=0


CASES...

Most standard ATX cases should be large enough.

I use a Chenming SX-1040 and it is good, but I have built systems with these cases and would suggest them (unless you need more drive bays) because of the quiet 120mm fan operation:

http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=11-129-117&depa=1

http://www.directron.com/sonata.html


Software monitoring programs:

For monitoring TEMPS / Voltages in NCCH-DL:
You must follow these directions in order:

Install Windows programs Internet Information Services (IIS), Management and Monitoring Tools, then install ASF and ASWM from Asus:
http://usa.asus.com/support/download/item.aspx?ModelName=NCCH-DL&Type=All

Use USER ASWM as the username and password.
Goto http://localhost:2623 and it will ask for your username and password...then you can see all your Temps, fan speeds and voltages. Unfortunately, this consumes about ~10% CPU resources every 1-2 seconds.

At this point, the way around using the web to monitor temps is:

Download and install Speedfan version 4.21:
http://www.almico.com/speedfan.php

Then you can uninstall IIS and Management and Monitoring Tools.

Some sensors will work and some will not, but both CPU temps and the motherboard temps work, the 3.3 and 5v rails work as does the Vcore for both CPUs.

Clockgen for overclocking FSB in Windows:
http://www.cpuid.com/clockgen.php

Motherboard Monitor (does not work with NCCH-DL):
http://mbm.livewiredev.com/download.html

CPU-Z (CPU identifier, etc…):
http://www.cpuid.com/cpuz.php



This is a work in progress, as such more components will be added and good venders to purchase the produc
ts.

 

[dustybyrd]

suggestions are welcome...and I will be adding links for good/inexpensive purchase sites as I find them and as others suggest them

 

[speed bump]

Nice work so far makes me wan't my next system to be a dual Zeon instead of a dual core P4 or a Venice core A64.

I would also suggest adding Zippy/emacs PSUs to your list as they are some of the best PSUs and rumored to be one of PCP&C OEM suppliers. They only caveat about zippys is they are designed for servers and thus very loud.

Also a Case reccomendation section as your average case won't easily accept a dually board.

 

[Albigger]

Might want to post individual vdimm adjustments available in case the potential buyer is looking at different ram (for example, max on PC-DL is 2.5v without a mod, while ncch-dl is adjustable 2.5-2.8volts in bios, not sure on dh800).

Also might want to list the expansion slots of each mobo (some might be interested in PCI-e cards vs agp) and also onboard sound/SATA etc... (or just provide a direct link to the manufacturer's website).

Probably good to link to clockgen, cpu-z and things of that nature (motherboard monitor if they ever update it to work with the ncchdl)

other than that nice post - after its finished i of course vote sticky and you or a mod can delete all the irrelevant posts below.

 

[dustybyrd]

changes noted...and more coming

 

[veryhumid]

nice guide! I just started getting my parts together

do some people need adapters for the power supply? I have a PC Power 510 Deluxe, but it has a different connector, right?

 

[dicecca112]

I would add retailers, like ewiz and atacom. To tell people were to buy the motherboards. I would reclassify the NCCH-DL to Mid performance and the Iwill as top. Good heastinks also include the Swiftech MCW604s I think is the number they can come with an adaptor for 533s LVs. A good thing to note in PSUs should be PMSfishy problem, that the PSU if it has split 12V the must not be dedicated, the must share from the group line. Also make sure that you tell people the PSU must be at least 550W with 36A on the 12V Line. Talk about how the PSU does not have to be EPS12V, that i can be ATX used with a 20-24 pin adaptor and a 4-8pin adaptor. Well that's all I have right now

 

[penquissciguy]

I would definitely clarify that all these boards require a 24+8 pin power supply. I might put the true EPS-12V supplies in a higher performance category than the converted ATX supplies. You might also want to mention the swiftech waterblocks that are available (MCW6000 and MCW6002) that are available with Socket 604 mounting hardware.

Ken

 

[dustybyrd]

I would add retailers, like ewiz and atacom. To tell people were to buy the motherboards. I would reclassify the NCCH-DL to Mid performance and the Iwill as top. Good heastinks also include the Swiftech MCW604s I think is the number they can come with an adaptor for 533s LVs. A good thing to note in PSUs should be PMSfishy problem, that the PSU if it has split 12V the must not be dedicated, the must share from the group line. Also make sure that you tell people the PSU must be at least 550W with 36A on the 12V Line. Talk about how the PSU does not have to be EPS12V, that i can be ATX used with a 20-24 pin adaptor and a 4-8pin adaptor. Well that's all I have right now

adding retailers now...

the NCCH-DL has two choices of good onboard RAID, 4-SATA Promise ports and 2-SATA Intel ports, the Iwill doesn't have these...

why would you say the Iwill DH800 is the top board? I believe there are some advantages to the Iwill as well, I will look them up...or a user can comment here...

While a good PSU (Asus recommends 28A on the 12v rail) is required, I doubt if 36A is required for the 12v line...

The jury may still be out on the split 12v power...more user comments? I will look into this as well...

One thing to note, Diehard has been successfully using a Fortron 530 with only one 18A 12v line with 3.2+ghz Xeons (1.6ghz LV models)...

Added on the 24 and 8pin adaptors...

 

[veryhumid]

maybe post a link where we could find the 20->24 pin adapters? lookin good!

 

[speciestraitor]

Can we get case recommendations? More specifically - Those intel windtunnels are pretty large and I was wondering how well they fit into a standard ATX mid-tower.

Also, how are the transistors laid out? For my AMD SMP machine I have the suggested 'Antec SLK3700AMB' which did not entirely fit my Gigabyte MPX board. I had to cut my case to get it to fit correctly with the transistor layout, making the inside of my case aesthetically disgusting.

I will be getting a new case for this Xeon setup and any suggestions would be awesome.

 

[dustybyrd]

case suggestions coming...

i use a classic Chenming sx-1040 tower and it is satisfactory...

although, if i were to get another case, i would look into 120mm fan cases...

 

[dicecca112]

Case
Antec SLK3700BQE, AMB or SLK3000-B.
AMS G-Tower CF-1006

 

[diehrd]

This link I think sums it up pretty nicely,also it has a clear picture of the 3 wires ya neeed in the socket for the 1.6lv chips to run at 1.6vCore..

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=50314

 

[dustybyrd]

thanks for all the suggestions everyone...

the guide has been updated...

 

[krag]

Very sweet walkthrough Dusty! The pics are worth a thousand words. I just got a hold of 2 1.6LVs and will be using this guide when I get the rest of the goods.

Way to go bro!

 

[Graphicism]

That's awesome, as soon as I sell my A64 system I will jump on this ~ great guide!

 

[disk11]

www.datamine.tk

PC-DL site and forum, probably the biggest thing it would add is the vdimm mod for the PC-DL.

And could you explain the performace ratings? I've been reading the PC-DL/DH800/NCCH-DL threads over at 2cpu for a while, and the PC-DL overclocks higher while the NCCH-DL can't get past 230 FSB and the DH800 not much further.

 

[dustybyrd]

www.datamine.tk

PC-DL site and forum, probably the biggest thing it would add is the vdimm mod for the PC-DL.

And could you explain the performace ratings? I've been reading the PC-DL/DH800/NCCH-DL threads over at 2cpu for a while, and the PC-DL overclocks higher while the NCCH-DL can't get past 230 FSB and the DH800 not much further.

links to the VDIMM mod are in the guide...

do you mean the performance ratings of the motherboards?

the PC-DL is like a trimmed down version of the NCCH-DL, and for that matter the DH800, in that it lacks VDIMM control for even reasonable voltage for the memory---in fact gettings many sticks to run at 200mhz fsb can be difficult at 2.45-2.5v, it lacks PCI-X, it has only one VRM, and no Nocona support, and has fewer RAID ports than the NCCH-DL...

that doesn't mean that the PC-DL isn't a great board, as other than those options, it's equally as good as the other two...the question is whether the extra $50-100 for the more featured boards is worth it to the individual user...

as far as getting the PC-DL to higher FSB's than the NCCH-DL or the DH800, that might be true...but is the board truely stable at that speed? here is a post by an experienced PC-DL user:

Here's what all my Xeons have run at in an Asus PC-DL motherboard (I've had 4 of them):

2.4/533 SL73L M0 Stepping - 3.52 GHz (16 x 220 MHz)
2.66/533 SL6GF C1 Stepping – 3.3 GHz (20 x 165 MHz)
1.6/400 LV SL6XK D1 Stepping - 3.12 GHz (15 x 208 MHz)
1.6/400 LV SL6GV C1 Stepping - 2.83 GHz (14 x 202 MHz)
1.6/400 LV SL6GV C1 Stepping - 2.64 GHz (16 x 165 MHz)

All have been able to run at higher FSBs with the VDIMM mod attached, but I prefer to run without it. The highest FSB I was able to run benchmarks at with the VDIMM mod was 254 MHz. But there are issues running the PC-DL over 220 MHz and I have always experienced some unexplained reboots or crashes. These setups were all rock solid at the speeds quoted above.

 

[godofgorks]

Originally posted be dustybyrd
NCCH-DL (and I believe DH800) (you must use Nocona based heat sinks on this board, even though you are using Prestonia based Xeons):

Does that apply for waterblocks too? I'm looking at the Swiftech MCW6002-NX or the MCW6002-PX for my 1.6lv's on a NCCH-DL. Just puzzled me.

Nice stuff though, helping me out tons.