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How to fix dropped connection to web pages, requiring Reload of web page

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c627627

c(n*199780) Senior Member
Joined
Feb 18, 2002
When I connect to a 5GHz connection, I get 220 MBps but often when double clicking on a web page link, the connection is dropped and it doesn't connect to the page unless I RELOAD the page in browser.
No such problems at 2.4GHz but it's much slower at 2.4GHz than at 5GHz.

What can I do to make it not drop the initial connection @5GHz!?


I am testing my Internet Speeds after going through Router Firmware problems.

Verizon 5G at Home
30Mbps @Box by itself

35Mbps @2.4GHz through NETGEAR Router
220Mbps @5GHz through NETGEAR Router

105Mbps @2.4GHz through UBIQUITI Access Point


So I have to go through 5GHz NETGEAR Router because the highest technical support tier at UBIQUITI does not know why Windows 8.1 only displays UBIQUITI connections at 2.4GHz and not 5GHz.
Windows 10 displays both 5GHz and 2.4 GHz but not Windows 8.1 which I use 99% of the time.

But the question is what causes dropped initial connections @5GHz?
 
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Solution
Dear friend,

I am using
Asus PCE-AC55BT B1
with latest driver version 19.10.0.9, which is also the exact same latest driver version for Windows 10 as well.

I am using
Ubiquiti Access Point WiFi 6 Long-Range U6-LR-US
with updated Firmware
OK this helps a lot! Your Ubiquity access point is wifi-6 your netgear is AC and your wifi adapter is AC.

"Several Wi-Fi adapters from Intel have known issues with Wi-Fi 6 networks. These problems are mostly resolved with a driver update, but it's important to know that those updates are not part of any Windows updates, so they will...
OP
c627627

c627627

c(n*199780) Senior Member
Joined
Feb 18, 2002
It very well may be unique to my system, they did not replicate.

wagex is the author of the question, which assumes a possibility that Ubiquiti is transmitting a WiFi signal compatible with Win 10 but not Win 8.
My way of answering wagex's question was to ask it from them directly.

Is wagex's assumption theoretically possible? Is there a type of a 5GHz WiFi signal compatible with 10 but not 8? If none of you know then my decision to ask Ubiquiti is even more appropriate in that case...


Yeah, I may be able to get another PC and do some experimentation in a couple of weeks.
Worth noting is that I get the wireless signal through a PCIe card - most of those cards do not support Win 8 (!) They only support Win 10.
I had to return a newer better Asus card and get their older one because none of their new cards supported Win8.
ASUS cards have been REQUIRING and USING ONLY Win 10 for many years.


I cannot stress how much peace Windows 8.1 brought me. Every six months would have been a nasty surprise with Win 10 and I completely avoided that for so many years.
Superfast computing depends on customization. Every Win 10 update is not an update but a REINSTALL. It absolutely is, when it comes to Windows SETTINGS, not installed programs.

Windows 8.1 settings stay the same with every update.
Windows 10 settings are H-O-S-E-D with every six month update. No thank you. It's like someone coming into my home and hosing all my furniture, hosing every picture on my wall, all my kitchen cabinets, hosing placements of all my tools - I know exactly where I put each one - and then telling me here's a generic home, rearrange it just like you like it and HEY BY THE WAY in six months a MANDATORY Windows 10 update will hose it ALL. Again.
 

EarthDog

Gulper Nozzle Co-Owner
Joined
Dec 15, 2008
Location
Buckeyes!
Is wagex's assumption theoretically possible? Is there a type of a 5GHz WiFi signal compatible with 10 but not 8? If none of you know then my decision to ask Ubiquiti is even more appropriate in that case...
I wouldn't bet my life on it, but I mentioned earlier that an ax/wifi6/6e device should be compatible with lower protocols. That said, I highly doubt they are not backward compatible or at least one tier of support would have caught that........we hope. The specs say a/b/g/4/5/6 support for your AP.


cannot stress how much peace Windows 8.1 brought me. Every six months would have been a nasty surprise with Win 10 and I completely avoided that for so many years.
Here's where things go off the rails... :p

Superfast computing depends on customization.
What do you mean by this? Feels like a blanket statement at best, false at its worst.

Every Win 10 update is not an update but a REINSTALL. It absolutely is, when it comes to Windows SETTINGS, not installed programs.
Sorry, what settings does it revert? I don't adjust anything after major updates and haven't including W10+. My computing life is not irrevocably destroyed (or even affected) by any of these updates. I make some tweaks here and there to settings in the OS, but none do I have to turn on again after major (or minor) updates.
 
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wagex

Chapstick Eating Premium Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2011
Wagex's assumption is the Wi-Fi drivers you are using with 8.1 aren't compatible, not necessarily that it's 8.1 that isn't compatible. We don't know what wireless adapter you are using nor what exact devices you are using so I literally have no way to help.

tl;dr: drivers update every so often as to add compatibility with other devices, if windows 8.1 is using an old driver that isn't compatible with the possible? (don't know because you haven't disclosed what model of devices you are using still) when a new Wi-Fi type/chip comes out old devices generally need a driver update to work with them sometimes. If windows 8.1 is using an old driver repository to automatically grab the driver for your still unknown Wi-Fi adapter that could be causing the issues.

EILI5: The thing might need a driver update to work with the other thing.

I've in the past had issues where 1 device being connected to the network will break other things with certain chips in them that don't have a driver update even to the point it will drop all devices connected to the access point because the old driver was broken.
Is that what's happening here? who knows because we still don't know what ubiquity device you are using, we still don't know what Wi-Fi adapter you are using, don't know what drivers you're using, don't know what chip your Wi-Fi adapter uses, I think we know what netgear device you are using from looking at your other dozen posts on the subject. But netgear is seemingly working fine so that's not a big deal.

this is the easiest i can explain this... windows 10 is probably using a different driver version than windows 8.1, the windows 10 version of the driver is probably more up to date to be compatible with newer devices.
 
OP
c627627

c627627

c(n*199780) Senior Member
Joined
Feb 18, 2002
Dear friend,

I am using
Asus PCE-AC55BT B1
with latest driver version 19.10.0.9, which is also the exact same latest driver version for Windows 10 as well.

I am using
Ubiquiti Access Point WiFi 6 Long-Range U6-LR-US
with updated Firmware

I am using
Netgear Nighthawk X6S AC3600 Router


I am willing to gamble on another adapter, could you recommend which one I could purchase, most wifi cards in recent years have a WIndows 10 mandatory requirement which may be due to a wider push to make people abandon Windows 8.1.

From your experience, which adapter would you recommend I try for Windows 8.1?


Ubiquiti just replied with an amateur hour answer, which is strange as they have all the details:

Thank you for contacting Ubiquiti Tech Support!

As I understand the Windows 8.1 is not able to see the 5Ghz WiFi network.

Using the Device Manager as mentioned previously, locate your wireless adapter.
Right-click it, and select Properties from the dropdown menu.
Within the Advanced tab, click 802.11n mode. To the right, set the value to Enable.

When you’ve done this, click OK and restart your computer. You should now be able to see your 5GHz network.



To which I replied *before* reading your post above:
Thank you. As my Windows 8.1 can use the 5GHz band from a NETGEAR Router - it is proof that settings are indeed set up correctly.
802.11n mode is set to Auto. Correctly.

This appears to mean that Ubiquiti is broadcasting a different type of 5GHz band signal?
Is there any way we could try to get an answer to my question, which is:

Is there a chance that Ubiquiti uses a different Wi-Fi version that isn't supported by Windows 8.1?
What is it using, N Wireless AC Wireless AX wireless 6 etc.
Perhaps this is a fall back to 2.4GHz channel if 5GHz network type is not supported by Windows 8.1? So what is it using?

Ubiquiti's 2.4 GHz band can be seen but not 5GHz - while at the same time Windows 8.1 CAN see and connect to NETGEAR router's 5GHz band, but it cannot see Ubiquiti's 5GHz band.
 

wagex

Chapstick Eating Premium Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2011
Dear friend,

I am using
Asus PCE-AC55BT B1
with latest driver version 19.10.0.9, which is also the exact same latest driver version for Windows 10 as well.

I am using
Ubiquiti Access Point WiFi 6 Long-Range U6-LR-US
with updated Firmware
OK this helps a lot! Your Ubiquity access point is wifi-6 your netgear is AC and your wifi adapter is AC.

"Several Wi-Fi adapters from Intel have known issues with Wi-Fi 6 networks. These problems are mostly resolved with a driver update, but it's important to know that those updates are not part of any Windows updates, so they will need to be updated manually."
I am using
Netgear Nighthawk X6S AC3600 Router


I am willing to gamble on another adapter, could you recommend which one I could purchase, most wifi cards in recent years have a WIndows 10 mandatory requirement which may be due to a wider push to make people abandon Windows 8.1.

From your experience, which adapter would you recommend I try for Windows 8.1?
I don't have much experience with windows 8.1, I don't think it's a problem with the operating system per-se but the driver that windows is using. one way to check this is to goto device manager right click on your wireless adapter goto properties then goto the driver tab and screenshot it or share what driver version and who the signer is, EG windows 11 is using a windows signed driver for my realtek adapter, it works fine or else i'd bother to try the actual drivers from realtek.

How are you running this piece of hardware, did you install the driver package from ASUS? Are you using windows default built in drivers? lets find out together :)

Ubiquiti just replied with an amateur hour answer, which is strange as they have all the details:

Thank you for contacting Ubiquiti Tech Support!

As I understand the Windows 8.1 is not able to see the 5Ghz WiFi network.

Using the Device Manager as mentioned previously, locate your wireless adapter.
Right-click it, and select Properties from the dropdown menu.
Within the Advanced tab, click 802.11n mode. To the right, set the value to Enable.

When you’ve done this, click OK and restart your computer. You should now be able to see your 5GHz network.



To which I replied *before* reading your post above:
Thank you. As my Windows 8.1 can use the 5GHz band from a NETGEAR Router - it is proof that settings are indeed set up correctly.
802.11n mode is set to Auto. Correctly.
This is correct, it should be on auto you dont want to force N it's garbage.
This appears to mean that Ubiquiti is broadcasting a different type of 5GHz band signal?
yeah, ubiquity is wifi-6. I have a couple questions for this portion of the setup.
Are you using the same SSID/password on the ubiquity stuff as you are using for the netgear?
if so you could be running into some compatibility issues because ubiquity could be using wp3 instead of wpa2 which might be confusing windows 8.1 when switching between ssid's if they are the same, if not ignore this question.
Is there any way we could try to get an answer to my question, which is:

Is there a chance that Ubiquiti uses a different Wi-Fi version that isn't supported by Windows 8.1?
Yeah, it does, your links show that your netgear is wireless AC and the ubiquity is wifi-6 (AX)
What is it using, N Wireless AC Wireless AX wireless 6 etc.
wireless N is ancient and garbage I wouldnt touch it with a 10 foot pole Them suggesting doing that was, im guessing, to test and see if it's a compatibility issue as setting the network adapter to N would be limiting it to N speeds and protocols, which should work but probably wont let you see the network you cant see anyways.
Perhaps this is a fall back to 2.4GHz channel if 5GHz network type is not supported by Windows 8.1? So what is it using?
this is an unlikely scenario unless the current drivers are wrong, the drivers determine what the os can see not the other way around.
Ubiquiti's 2.4 GHz band can be seen but not 5GHz - while at the same time Windows 8.1 CAN see and connect to NETGEAR router's 5GHz band, but it cannot see Ubiquiti's 5GHz band.
5ghz isn't 5ghz isn't 5ghz there's wireless AC 5ghz wireless N 5ghz wireless 6 (AX) 5ghz all of these are on the same protocol as their 2.4ghz counterparts, just a different frequency with higher bandwidth. Now, the reason for updated drivers for AC devices to talk to AX devices correctly, the device has to connect/see the new network, then it has to negotiate with it, say "hey you got AX I can only do AC so let's compromise and use AC". In order to be able to complete this discussion it's knowledge has to be updated (via drivers) to know how to handle said negotiations, and sometimes even be able to see the network.

just like Wi-Fi isn't Wi-Fi isn't Wi-Fi, you can connect an AC device to a wifi-6 device granted you have the updated drivers for the AC device that have been updated to work with AX because AX is backwards compatible, so the issue is not with ubiquity it's with the adapter/drivers.

I just looked up your network adapter, and the latest drivers are from 2017, AX came out in 2019.
It uses an intel wifi chip, i've read they have some compatibility issues with wifi-6, not sure if it's fixable with a driver update for certain, but here's worth a shot. I looked up the model of adapter you are using it uses an intel 8260 chip, if you aren't installing drivers manually I'm almost certain windows is picking one for you.

ASUS stopped updating their drivers even though intel has been dropping updates for it, even all the way into 2022.
There's a link to the driver downloads direct from Intel, perhaps try to install one of those in 8.1 and see if that fixes your issue.
 
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Solution
OP
c627627

c627627

c(n*199780) Senior Member
Joined
Feb 18, 2002
CHECK OUT the big brain on wagex.

It took me three seconds to install a driver directly from Intel immediately enabling Ubiquiti's 5GHz band under Windows 8.1.
Earthdog, give this man a medal.



Driver version 19.10.21.1


No one from highest tiers of Ubiquiti's Technical Support suggested this, and Ubiquiti is a top dog in this field.
No one from Asus suggested it either.
 
OP
c627627

c627627

c(n*199780) Senior Member
Joined
Feb 18, 2002
Yes, it is worth noting that for most people, the concept of 'drivers' for an Asus card = go to Asus product page, download latest driver.

If Level 3 Tech Support at Ubiquiti didin't think like wagex, and it is their job, then what chance do average users have?



I will now write to Asus and Ubiquiti. Hopefully they can get that into their systems for Level 1 tech support to read when problems like this come up.
 

ATMINSIDE

Sim Racing Aficionado Co-Owner
Joined
Jun 28, 2012
Tech support at ubiquiti is also trained to support their products, which in this case were working appropriately. They are not experts on Asus, Windows, or other products.

Also, you are an edge case, so i can see why it would fall through the cracks at Asus, as you are using a no-longer-supported operating system as far as Asus is concerned.
 
OP
c627627

c627627

c(n*199780) Senior Member
Joined
Feb 18, 2002
You are correct that most people are using Windows 10, making this Windows 8.1 issue a problem for a minority of users, who are in truth, using an OS which is still being updated my Microsoft at least once a month and is not scheduled to reach its End of Life before 2023.

I am curious, what is the source for "Asus is no longer supporting Windows 8.1."

When I typed it into a search engine I got a hit where apparently Asus is using some kind of a free version of Windows 8.1 in their products in an article released by official Asus Win8.1 support, from only about a year ago. However you may be right and they may have stopped Win 8.1 support, what is the source of this info?

Asus driver versions for my card are identical for Win 10 and Win 8.1. Equally supported.

From a point of view of elementary logic, if we have two devices and one is seen by Windows 8, and the other one is not, that means that one device is emitting a signal REQUIRING a recent driver update..

Then I would argue that this fact absolutely should be part of Level 1 initial tech support "go through" List, let alone Level 2 and if Level 3 at Ubiquiti doesn't know it, then that's a bit of a problem.
It is their job.

Any other job, this would be an issue. Ubiquiti should know that their signal REQUIRIES a recent update. It doesn't work with old drivers, whereas other, inferior gear like Netgear, works with old drivers, they don't need any recent updates for basic functionality.

Ubiquiti requires it for *basic* functionality.
We're not talking about security updates. That's why Level 3 tech support should have known it..
 

EarthDog

Gulper Nozzle Co-Owner
Joined
Dec 15, 2008
Location
Buckeyes!
An overwhelming majority of users are on W10 (75%+). About 12% on 11 and 4% on 8+8.1 and 6.5% on w7 in the US (I used global #s earlier, I think). Mainstream support ended in 2018 for w8.1. Extended support ends in July 2023 IIRC. Extended support only includes security and reliability updates along with bug fixes. QoL and driver updates stopped with mainstream support 4 years ago. So while it's being updated, technically, it isn't pulling the normal things down. I wonder if W10 pulled the update (anything newer that recognized the device - it's not about the device broadcasting but that it's known to the NIC driver) down automatically upon installation of the card whereas 8.1 and 'extended' support did not.

As far as Asus not supporting older versions of windows, you can look at more recent items (i looked at pcie wifi adapters) and see many (randomly checked a few) only go back to W10 for drivers. There's no 8.1->7 listed for support for the ones I checked. Now some USB bt/wifi ones do, but otherwise anything remotely modern is 10+.

Did Asus/uni know your exact model wifi adapter? It was like pulling teeth to get those details here, lol! As you can see that lubricated the wheel on this side to get to the answer. I'm truly torn on the competence of the two companies until we know what information they had to work with.

That said, I'm just glad it's working for you. Seeing things like this make me wonder where the breaking point for people on moving past w8.x. is.
 
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OP
c627627

c627627

c(n*199780) Senior Member
Joined
Feb 18, 2002
My take-away is that going forward we should remember that Intel / AMD continue to offer latest chipset drivers long after individual manufacturers stop doing so.
It's a useful and important lesson.


You know, when I reboot into Windows 10 - it's the same exact Asus driver version there. However, you are correct that Windows 10 is tons better with drivers natively, absolutely.
You are also correct that for many years it was next to impossible finding a card that supports Win 8.1, Asus has had all their newer cards work under Win 10 only, for many years.

The breaking point is: the moment Microsoft allows full customization of everything, there would be no reason to use Windows 8.1 any more.
Microsoft resets custom settings every six months on Windows 10.
Why do they not just give people options?
You want a Start Button, here you go.
You don't want it, just turn it off, no problem. Oh you want it in the corner - here you go. You want it centered, here you go.
They make drastic UI changes and make them mandatory, why?!

Nobody would complain if they just made UI stuff be ON/OFF.
People would adopt and switch to new things if they would just go hey you can turn ON this new thing we came up with. Or you can turn it OFF.
 

EarthDog

Gulper Nozzle Co-Owner
Joined
Dec 15, 2008
Location
Buckeyes!
To be accurate, you updated Wi-Fi drivers, not chipset. Though you're right (they update those too) they are two totally different things. :)

It's funny this thread covered two distinctly different issues... the title problem (connectivity) and then the 5ghz issue. We can only choose one 'solution'!! :p
 

Janus67

Benching Team Leader
Joined
May 29, 2005
Regarding the complaints of versions of Windows 10, the versions are supported for 18mo-24mo [iirc] depending on their release dates. They don't force you to upgrade every 6mo.
 
OP
c627627

c627627

c(n*199780) Senior Member
Joined
Feb 18, 2002
Whether it's 18 months or XX months, it is a Windows reinstall, because it resets custom settings which some people spend days customizing. Windows 10 effectively removes Windows OS customization as an option, and that is why NO to Windows 10..

Some people live in a trailer, as trailer trash, others build custom homes, where they customize everything.

Explaining customization to a Microsoft employee or for that matter, to an Adobe Systems Incorporated engineer, is like explaining custom home setup to trailer trash.
It is an exercise in futility.


Meanwhile, Ubiquiti is on the right track, they wrote back, I would recommend their products to everyone:
Hello,
I am Bhavya from the Management team. Thank you for sharing the details of your resolution. I will relay this internally and make teams aware of adding this in our troubleshooting guides.
Let me know if you have any questions

Best,

Bhavya Mehta
Ubiquiti Inc.
 

EarthDog

Gulper Nozzle Co-Owner
Joined
Dec 15, 2008
Location
Buckeyes!
Funny, I would've pegged the modern OS as the customized, feature-laden turnkey house that's ready to go out of the box vs W8.1 the dilapidated one without bells and whistles that needs a remodel to use. :p

Well this proves it....one man's (trailer) trash is another man's treasure! :rofl:
 
OP
c627627

c627627

c(n*199780) Senior Member
Joined
Feb 18, 2002
Toolbar.png


It allows for super-fast computing by clicking on these buttons ↑ vs. multi step press on Keyboard or right clicking multiple options.

It allows the same for Start Menu.


Win10 hoses anything you customize in THIS PC Explorer menu, making it necessary for multiple registry hacks with every single Windows 10 Update, sometimes every monthly update, because Win10 thinks it's wrong that you customized which folders do, and which do not show up under THIS PC, where I usually like DRIVES to show up, not folder locations which I never use, clogging that vital space:


ThisPC.jpg
 
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EarthDog

Gulper Nozzle Co-Owner
Joined
Dec 15, 2008
Location
Buckeyes!
Is there really a difference in time moving a mouse cursor to click a button versus pressing one/two keys (hand is on the kb already mind you - do we all do it that way?) versus all this tweaking and frustration over OSs? It honestly looks like it comes down to personal preference than it is truly more efficient (or 'super-fast') way to 'PC'. Ctl+x/c/a/f/z, F2, FTW!

I see what you mean in explorer. I only use downloads there on the left side (not docs or pictures...intentionally - some apps dump there by default). It just doesn't bother me enough to do anything about it.
 
OP
c627627

c627627

c(n*199780) Senior Member
Joined
Feb 18, 2002
This is template conversation, the same one for over twenty years on the forums.

The conversation template is: the person I am talking to, thinks that a point is being made that my way is 'better'.
It is not. Your way is better. For you.

My way is (actually) to have an option, just an option, to customize.
And seconds / minutes saved over twenty years amount to a *significant* amount of saved time for an organized person who can do things faster the way they set it up for themselves, which may be different from you or me. So the 'enemy' is the engineer who took away our options and imposed their own, on all of us. And they keep doing it in Windows 10, and even more limiting in Windows 11 now.


Start Button!? Metro!? Why was anyone allowed to draw a salary at Microsoft who thinks we should be forced to do either, when the correct answer was clearly: you turn either ON or OFF. Both should have been there.