HTPC build + a few questions

[Maxvla]

I posted this over on AVS, but I thought I'd get input from my pals here at home (OCF ).

Throwing my build at you guys to make sure I'm up to date with my choices. This is a slightly modified (for maximum silence) version of the low end ATX Intel/nVidia posted on page 85 (AVS HTPC build thread).

Core Unit:

Motherboard: EVGA 113-YW-E115-TR $119 ($20 rebate by 3/31/09 = $99)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813188035

CPU: Intel Pentium Dual Core 2.50ghz Wolfdale E5200 $69
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819116072

RAM: A-Data 2x1GB DDR2-800 ADQVE1A16K $24.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820211066

HD: Maxtor 250GB SATA (Already own)

PSU: Nexus Value 430W (11db silent) $89 (#1 @ SPCR)
http://www.eastluna.com/hardware/details.php?id=3498&id2=b

CASE: SilverStone Lascala LC17 SST-LC17B $119
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811163055

FANS: NEXUS REAL SILENT CASE FAN SP802512L-03 80mm (qty 2) $15.00 each (#1 @ SPCR)
http://www.eastluna.com/hardware/details.php?id=0344

Totaling $430.99

May add:

Blu-Ray: LITE-ON iHES206-08 $119
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827106277
Supposed to be quietest BD out, but not many reviews mention loudness and SPCR doesn't do optical drives for some reason.

I will be building a large 16-20 drive server based on the Norco 4020 case for storage so 250GB should be plenty for the HTPC since I do not plan to do any recording, only viewing, which will be streamed from the server, of course.

Only question I still have lingering is about audio. I'm a big audiophile when it comes to 2 channel (music), but I haven't done the multichannel theater thing since DTS (yeah the original) wasn't even out yet so I'm lost with all the new formats. To get the most out of BluRay discs what format do I need and will the above system perform it? If not what sound card do I need to get? I don't yet have my audio path planned so this is open ended.

One last topic is networking. I obviously will be using gigabit lan, but wondered if wireless N is good enough for streaming blu-ray level content. Less wires is always a good thing, but will do so if necessary. The downside to wires is I don't own the house I'm living in so I can't do anything permanent so wireless would be great since I'll put the Norco 4020 server in my spare room due to noise.

Thanks!

 

[LandShark]

I posted this over on AVS, but I thought I'd get input from my pals here at home (OCF ).

Throwing my build at you guys to make sure I'm up to date with my choices. This is a slightly modified (for maximum silence) version of the low end ATX Intel/nVidia posted on page 85 (AVS HTPC build thread).

Core Unit:

Motherboard: EVGA 113-YW-E115-TR $119 ($20 rebate by 3/31/09 = $99)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813188035

CPU: Intel Pentium Dual Core 2.50ghz Wolfdale E5200 $69
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819116072

RAM: A-Data 2x1GB DDR2-800 ADQVE1A16K $24.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820211066

HD: Maxtor 250GB SATA (Already own)

PSU: Nexus Value 430W (11db silent) $89 (#1 @ SPCR)
http://www.eastluna.com/hardware/details.php?id=3498&id2=b

CASE: SilverStone Lascala LC17 SST-LC17B $119
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811163055

FANS: NEXUS REAL SILENT CASE FAN SP802512L-03 80mm (qty 2) $15.00 each (#1 @ SPCR)
http://www.eastluna.com/hardware/details.php?id=0344

Totaling $430.99

May add:

Blu-Ray: LITE-ON iHES206-08 $119
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827106277
Supposed to be quietest BD out, but not many reviews mention loudness and SPCR doesn't do optical drives for some reason.

I will be building a large 16-20 drive server based on the Norco 4020 case for storage so 250GB should be plenty for the HTPC since I do not plan to do any recording, only viewing, which will be streamed from the server, of course.

Only question I still have lingering is about audio. I'm a big audiophile when it comes to 2 channel (music), but I haven't done the multichannel theater thing since DTS (yeah the original) wasn't even out yet so I'm lost with all the new formats. To get the most out of BluRay discs what format do I need and will the above system perform it? If not what sound card do I need to get? I don't yet have my audio path planned so this is open ended.

One last topic is networking. I obviously will be using gigabit lan, but wondered if wireless N is good enough for streaming blu-ray level content. Less wires is always a good thing, but will do so if necessary. The downside to wires is I don't own the house I'm living in so I can't do anything permanent so wireless would be great since I'll put the Norco 4020 server in my spare room due to noise.

Thanks!

I have 2 of the same LG Bluray drive (one in the living room HTPC, one in my main PC), and yes, they are very quiet.

you can just use the onboard HDMI out to connect to your AVR for the sound. I don't know how sensitive or purist you are. but the current PC audio isn't at it's best for HD audio output. Bluray movie typically has either LPCM audio, or Dolby TrueHD, or DTS-HD MA format. the latest PC sound solution (included the above board) could support LPCM output no problem. the only problem is Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD sound format. it is a encoded sound format, thus it needs to be decoded. current, pretty much all commerical Bluray players could decode the format no problem; however, in doing so, they will also "bit stripe" the sound from 24bit under to 16bit/44khz tho. most current or older Bluray movies are actually encoded in 16bits anyway, so not really a problem. but the newest/latest movies are encoding in 24bit tho.

there's only 2 solution at the moment for this. one is the latest Asus HDAV 1.3 sound card that could bitstream (and the only PC bitstream-able sound card at the market right now) the HD audio from the PC to the AVR and let your AVR (if it could) to decode the HD audio. however, the earlier model cards are having 1080p/24 problem, only the 2009 made cards are fixed.

the other solution is (and what I'm doing for my Blurays) to decode/convert the HD audio into the lossless flac format, this way when pairing w/ a 8 channels LPCM output enabled sound product (ATI 4xxx series, Intel G45, Nvidia 8300/9300 mobo, etc.), you will get every single bit the pure HD audio as if it's bitstreamed and decoded from the AVR!

again, back to my first question, this depends on how "purist" of an audiophile you are. some claim there's no different, some sensitive ear swear there is a difference. and probably how expensive the equipment you have. when I'm spending a grand or more on a single speaker, I would definitely make sure I'm getting every single bit of the sound out of it!

your last question, I haven't tried streaming Bluray materials over a wireless network (my house is only wirelessG), my whole house is wired w/ Gigabit. but I would recommend to go wired instead of wireless even tho in theory wirelessN should have enough bandwidth for Bluray (around 20-40mbps), but that's just in the best case! and the real world speed is a lot less!

 

[Maxvla]

just a quick sec to reply so I'm only addressing this part at the moment. I'll get to the other later.

your last question, I haven't tried streaming Bluray materials over a wireless network (my house is only wirelessG), my whole house is wired w/ Gigabit. but I would recommend to go wired instead of wireless even tho in theory wirelessN should have enough bandwidth for Bluray (around 20-40mbps), but that's just in the best case! and the real world speed is a lot less!

After doing some more research after posting that I found that wireless N is rated at 300Mbps and I've seen people showing 160Mbps real world results. A Blu-Ray at most is 50Mbps so I think I will be fine. I'll give N a try and see how it goes at least.

 

[Twigglish]

Damn Land Shark.... great information.

 

[Maxvla]

OK I have a bit more time now.

If I read you right, for Blu-Ray playback the best option is the Asus card. What about if I encoded with mkv for example?

Just checked that Asus card and got some sticker shock. $240 is quite a tidy sum for a sound card. Is there no alternative without re-encoding like you are doing? I might just break down and buy it, but I would want to be sure it will be somewhat future proof. Better not see new formats for audio come out 6 months after I buy it. One other question is about the noise of the fan. I'm surprised to see an audio board with a fan on it. My entire HTPC is setup to be below ambient noise, I'd hate for it to ruin it.

 

[Wicked Klown]

You can get the Asus Xonar HDAV for $179 +S&H. Auzentech is also releasing a HDMI sound card as well but if I remember right street price will be around $250. Also the Asus doesn't have a fan on it.

 

[Maxvla]

^ Has a fan on it, or it looks like it at least...

 

[Wicked Klown]

It just looks like it, here is a real nice close up.

 

[LandShark]

OK I have a bit more time now.

If I read you right, for Blu-Ray playback the best option is the Asus card. What about if I encoded with mkv for example?[/qoute]
that's exactly what I'm doing on backing up my blurays. just remux the movie into mkv container, and decode the HD sound into lossless flac format, remux them back into one mkv file. this way, you will lose nothing in both picture and sound quality!

[qoute]Just checked that Asus card and got some sticker shock. $240 is quite a tidy sum for a sound card. Is there no alternative without re-encoding like you are doing? I might just break down and buy it, but I would want to be sure it will be somewhat future proof. Better not see new formats for audio come out 6 months after I buy it. One other question is about the noise of the fan. I'm surprised to see an audio board with a fan on it. My entire HTPC is setup to be below ambient noise, I'd hate for it to ruin it.

the Asus HDAV is the ONLY solution that could bitstream from a PC to AVR. yeah, how sad!! however, it also come with some restrain too! it will ONLY bitstream when using a "special version" of TMT that comes with the card! and that "special version" of TMT lost HD DVD support (if it matters you), and also lose the VMC plug in support. hopefully, the TMT3 will change. ONLY work w/ a "special version" of TMT is a main no no imho.

Auzentech "supposed" to release it's own version of bitstream-able sound card. "supposed" mean late Dec/early Jan; however, it seen to be delay or holding off till who know when..... plus it will be like the Asus card, this one will only work on a 'special version" of PowerDVD (or WinDVD?).

that's why I didn't get any even tho I've been waiting for a solution like this since I've finished my dedicate home theater last year! and the reason why instead of getting the card, I decided to remux all my bluray into mkv & flac so I can play it on any directshow supported player I want or fit my HTPC setup included the MediaPortal's internal player.

again, all this trouble/problem is depends on how purist/sensitive an audiophile you are. imho, I wouldn't really worry or care all these if I'm just playing the movie through some budget/low end speakers. however, if you have some nice decent equipment, then I'm sure you too want to get the very best out of it.

 

[Maxvla]

The more I read about this card, I see there's a video processor on the board, does this do video as well? I'm confused, heh.

 

[Maxvla]

the Asus HDAV is the ONLY solution that could bitstream from a PC to AVR. yeah, how sad!! however, it also come with some restrain too! it will ONLY bitstream when using a "special version" of TMT that comes with the card! and that "special version" of TMT lost HD DVD support (if it matters you), and also lose the VMC plug in support. hopefully, the TMT3 will change. ONLY work w/ a "special version" of TMT is a main no no imho.

Auzentech "supposed" to release it's own version of bitstream-able sound card. "supposed" mean late Dec/early Jan; however, it seen to be delay or holding off till who know when..... plus it will be like the Asus card, this one will only work on a 'special version" of PowerDVD (or WinDVD?).

that's why I didn't get any even tho I've been waiting for a solution like this since I've finished my dedicate home theater last year! and the reason why instead of getting the card, I decided to remux all my bluray into mkv & flac so I can play it on any directshow supported player I want or fit my HTPC setup included the MediaPortal's internal player.

again, all this trouble/problem is depends on how purist/sensitive an audiophile you are. imho, I wouldn't really worry or care all these if I'm just playing the movie through some budget/low end speakers. however, if you have some nice decent equipment, then I'm sure you too want to get the very best out of it.

OK so here's a new question. If I were to just use the spdif out of the motherboard will it convert to lower level DD or DTS or will I get no audio at all? Converting every blu-ray to mkv + flac sounds like a lot of work, especially if I simply want to go grab one from the store come home and watch it right away...

 

[Wicked Klown]

Well sort of, you plug your video card output to the Asus input. It merges the audio and video together.

 

[LandShark]

The more I read about this card, I see there's a video processor on the board, does this do video as well? I'm confused, heh.

it "said" to improve video quality; however, pretty much all user recommended otherwise. and they also recommended not to install the splendid software that comes w/ the card too.

there's a long thread over @ avsforums 'bout the Asus card. also, they should have a "slim down" (in size and price and no analog) version that will be out w/in weeks.

 

[LandShark]

OK so here's a new question. If I were to just use the spdif out of the motherboard will it convert to lower level DD or DTS or will I get no audio at all? Converting every blu-ray to mkv + flac sounds like a lot of work, especially if I simply want to go grab one from the store come home and watch it right away...

yes, when outputting via SPDIF, it will get downward to DD/DTS. in your case, just grab and watch, I too won't bother 'bout remuxing. just pop the disc in and play. in this case, the best solution is the Asus HDAV use TMT as player and bitstream the HD audio to your AVR (IF your AVR could decode it).

 

[Maxvla]

OK that settles audio then. I won't bother with the 'proper' stuff until there is a better solution for it. DD/DTS is plenty fine at present. At this point I just want to get a box built.

I am curious about your setup though, are you getting the full HD audio when you encode your blu-rays? Also I'm guessing you have some sort of streamlined way of doing this, got any links to a walk-through? One last question regarding this: I'm guessing the overall size of the blu-ray encoded rip is smaller than a straight blu-ray rip? Would be good for conserving storage space, even though I plan to have at least 15TB, possibly more.

 

[Maxvla]

I saw this post in your 3.0 thread so that answers some of the questions in my last post, but I would appreciate a link to the guide thread you mentioned.

I'm still curious if you are getting full HD audio or not. I'm guessing not, but not sure. I just might follow you and do the mkv/flac thing. We'll see.

I browsed your room build thread on AVS and was impressed. I liked how the room turned out, and while the colors look great, I personally would have used different ones, but that's just my taste! Depending on what happens with me and this house (currently my grandmother's who moved to assisted living) I may try my hand at a dedicated HT room. I need to measure the room I have in mind (kinda small), but the really nice thing is that just outside the door there is a linen cabinet in the wall I could convert to HT gear/server storage. If done well it would have a very professional look having the gear outside the room, but built into the wall. Exciting to think about, but I don't know how long I'll be living there so no plans currently.

 

[LandShark]

here's the thread about extract and remux a Bluray movie's main movie and HD audio track into .mkv container and lossless flac audio.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1033822

just use Guide 4 then Guide 2. it might seems pretty complicated, but in fact, it's very simple to do it! I takes no more 5 mins of user input to do it. the only thing is it'll take a while to extract/copy the movie onto the HDD ('bout 45min using the LG 6x Bluray drive). the end result is a much smaller file with just the main 1080p/24 movie and the HD lossless audio track. the resulting file is about 18-25GB/movie versus 40-50GB!

as for the audio, yes, it's the exact same HD audio. what it does is just decoded the encoded HD audio format (Dolby TrueHD or DTS-HD MA) into lossless flac format which is basically the same since they are all lossless audio format.

I'm doing it for my backups not just for space saving, but also if for easier playback option. if I back them up in ISO or folder structure, that will be limiting myself of how I'm gonna play them since most player (e.g. PowerDVD) doesn't allow folder structure playback, and to make bluray ISO to play, it will require more tweak/setup on the htpc front end. versus in .mkv container, it can be play on any player with no tweak/setup.

 

[Maxvla]

I see. Is the AVR seeing a TrueHD or HD MA signal and processing it properly into all the channels?

I'll check out the guides. Thanks again.

 

[LandShark]

I see. Is the AVR seeing a TrueHD or HD MA signal and processing it properly into all the channels?

I'll check out the guides. Thanks again.

no. it'll show LPCM or multi-channel PCM on the AVR since it's uncompressed lossless PCM signal. therefore, no decoding is needed from the AVR too.

 

[Maxvla]

Excellent, thanks.