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I have to ask, not being ignorant just a question

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itizme

Member
Joined
Nov 3, 2002
Location
Barrie
So we take an air cooled system and install waterblocks, tubing, a pump, a resevoir, a radiator, a fan to air cool the radiator and who knows what else in the way of brackets etc etc. I am sure every install is quite different for sure.

What does this get us??
I see everyone still has fans within the case for airflow and the rad needs a fan so is it any quieter?

How much better is the cooling?

How much more can we overclock with water over air?

Why not use a much cleaner refridgeration system?

Just asking so I know
Thanks!!
 

johan851

Insatiably Malcontent, Senior Member
Joined
Jul 24, 2002
Location
Seattle, WA
This gets us cooler processor temps without having to use loud CPU fans. The other fans still in the case will provide plenty of airflow even if they're low speed fans. The end result is a quieter and cooler setup, because in this case you can use a 120mm fan on your radiator instead of a 80mm or 60mm CPU fan. For example, a 120mm can push 80CFM pretty quietly, while a Vantec Tornado 80mm pushing the same CFM sounds like a vacuum cleaner. A 120mm has a lower frequency, and is much easier on the ears. You can get away with a low speed fan on your radiator too.

The cooling is significantly better as long as you're overclocking. With just a stock setup temperatures might be a little closer to the same, as you can only get your processor so close to ambient temperature. When putting 1.85v through an AMD, or 1.6v through a P4, you'll see a noticable difference in temperatures. A radiator provides a lot more cooling area than a heatsink.

Overclocking water over air depends on the setup, of course. Using an AMD rig as an example, many people could get at least a 200mhz increase in core speed, simply because the better cooling capability of a water cooled rig will allow decent temps at, say, 1.95v. An air cooling setup couldn't handle the heat dissipation required at that voltage. The better cooling of a water setup allows higher voltages, and therefore a higher clockspeed.

A refridgeration system would make a pretty expensive power bill, and probably be a little more work than it's worth, although some have done it. A refridgerator really isn't built to cool a constant heat load, but rather to chill the contents and then relax, only turning on the compressor (or whatever it is) when temperature goes above a constant point. Since the compressor would be on 24/7 in a water cooled setup, it would use much more power and probably die more quickly. For the most part, it's not practical for most watercoolers.
 

Graystar

Member
Joined
Aug 20, 2002
Location
Brooklyn, NY
I do it for noise. Right now, the hard drive is the loudest part of my computer. My computer is in my bed room so the thing I get out of water cooling is sleep :D
 
OP
itizme

itizme

Member
Joined
Nov 3, 2002
Location
Barrie
Good info, maybe I can get some more (am actually thinking of the Tt unit).
If I run at 1.595v and have a max temp of 36 should I bother?
The noise levels are coming down as I experiment more and the fan controller on the case fans is a life saver for me.
I presently have my xaser cpu fan running on its full auto feature as to only use the speed increases as needed.
Would it be worth the effort or would I be experimenting for little gain?
 

Caffinehog

Übercaffinated Member
Joined
Dec 27, 2001
Location
In the lab
Well, with water, you'll be able to put a lot more voltage than that through the processor, which, as stated above, will probably get you 200-400mhz, depending on whether you have AMD or Intel.
The big bonus for me is silence. If you properly bleed the air out of the system, it can be dead silent. To me, stock coolers and CD-roms are annoyingly loud, but I sleep in the same room as my two water-cooled computers.
This means I can have solidly overclocked computers that are very quiet.

P.S. Do some research and build your own watercooling setup. It'll beat any kit, and will cost about the same.
 
OP
itizme

itizme

Member
Joined
Nov 3, 2002
Location
Barrie
as I look at the cpu temp it is 29 degrees right now, just surfin the net and chatting away. Maybe I need not worry but a new toy would be nice!
I appreciate the info, thanks
 

JML

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 30, 2000
Location
New Jersey
itizme said:

1. I see everyone still has fans within the case for airflow and the rad needs a fan so is it any quieter?

2. How much better is the cooling?

3. How much more can we overclock with water over air?

4. Why not use a much cleaner refridgeration system?


1. Yes, the fan on the cpu heatsink easily has the loudest fan in the whole system. Radiators may require a fan, but you can get away with a very low noise 120mm fan and still have acceptable cooling.

2. Once the cpu is under load (I'm just wildly guessing here) that an average watercooler would be 10c lower than the best of HSF's.

3. No idea, prob a bit higher, but not much.

4. Price, fear of condensation killing stuff
 
OP
itizme

itizme

Member
Joined
Nov 3, 2002
Location
Barrie
Re: Re: I have to ask, not being ignorant just a question

JML said:




4. Price, fear of condensation killing stuff

and I have no air conditioning in this house, that could be trouble
 

rogerdugans

Linux challenged Senior, not that it stops me...
Joined
Dec 28, 2001
Location
Corner of No and Where
itizme said:

What does this get us??
1) I see everyone still has fans within the case for airflow and the rad needs a fan so is it any quieter?

2) How much better is the cooling?

3) How much more can we overclock with water over air?

4) Why not use a much cleaner refridgeration system?


1) Yes, No and Maybe.
The two extreme ends of water cooling are Silence and Performance.
To get the absolute highest performance possible (without pelts or refrigeration) a water cooled pc may make as much noise as any other highly overclocked computer. And it is NOT a guarantee that you will get a higher oc: it merely raises the limit on how high the cooling will let you get. If the rest of the system bogs down @2100mhz, H2O will not get you to 2200.

The other end is Silence. Bigger fans make less noise (usually.) Even at default speeds or mild overclocks, a water cooled system can perform better than air cooling as far as noise is concerned.
Most of us are somewhere in between.

2) Well, that's really variable too: if you don't mind having a Tornado or 8000rpm delta next to your ear it may not be much better.....Modern High Performance air cooling does a great job and gets performance just shy of water cooling. In fact, the best air beats all but the best water cooling systems ON A STRAIGHT TEMP COMPARISON.
Hearing comes up as an issue again though!
Most water cooling systems are designed with the goal of having the best perfomance possible while maintaining low noise levels. H2O WILL beat air here.

3) Maybe none- chip/mobo limitations may be the problem. If temp is the issue then perhaps quite a bit: 200/400 mhz is not unrealistic with a good, oc-able system.

4) I have messed with refrigeration a bit (chiller not direct die) and there are a few reasons:
*cost- Water can be done for less than $100USD. You can buy all your stuff from a store and still get a decent system for less than $200 easily. Can't get a used Prommy or Vapo for that.
*Condensation- Preventing condensation becomes a huge issue with very low temps: the water is non-conductive but as soon as it comes into contact with a surface it will start picking up impurities which do make it conduct electricity. Keeping that from happening can be more work than you think.
* To refrigerate cheaply in any fashion means hme-built. THAT is a lot of work!
 

Joe Camel

Senior Camel Kicker
Joined
Aug 6, 2003
Location
---> NEW HOUSE 7/17/09 !! <---
i think most of your questions have been answered well, so im going to bring up one thing:

IT's FUN!!!
if you like building things or fixing things ie. cars and or just knowing you made something better than it is now, you'll love water cooling (needless to say, i do). and like you said, " a new TOY would be nice."

PS sweet look'n rig!!
PPS there is SOME "fun" in the risk of: if i screwed up....:eek:
 

Diggrr

Underwater Senior Member
Joined
Nov 29, 2001
Another thing about watercooling, it lets you transport the heat elswhere. I have my heatercore in the basement, so the fan is absolutely inaudible. I also enjoy the ambient temperatures down there for my cooling without cumbersome ducts and noisy blowers and such.

My cpu's at 25C right this second, with ambient (at my desk) of 23C.
 

FIZZ3

Member
Joined
Jun 27, 2002
Location
NL, Europe
Some people also like watercooling for it's ability to sprawl to a lot of components. You can cool anything with a single, beit complex, system. Waterblocks are commonly found on GPU's, NB's and harddisks, aside from the CPU. Some even go as far as putting blocks on memory or mosfets.
With a system like that, you don't cool anything below ambient, but you do make sure a lot of OC-critical components are cooled really well. Nothing will overheat in a system like that, which results in a great starting point for any overclock that stresses more than just the CPU.
 

sandman001

Just Freeze It
Joined
Mar 11, 2003
When to start to figure in the high-ish cost of new heatsinks/cooling for your gpu and cpu. You can be looking at $80 anyway.

So, At that point you can pick up some Gemini blocks for $25 a peice, a pump and a heatercore and still only spend around $100.