I need advanced guidance on building an AMD liquid cooled pc

[Newbi 1 Kenewbi]

Hi, I am very happy to join OC forums.

My purpose: to built an AMD system - Liquid cooled of course (full loop no AIO) with the purpose of OCing maybe after enjoying a few months of gaming 1st!


I haven't had a new pc since 08 on which I oced an Intel from 3.0 to 4.14 GHz on an AIO successfully 24/7.

Well here we are at it again! This is gonna be a pro Liquid cool loop that will be oced to the max. I will enjoy building it in regards to hydrodynamics and optimum cooling performance.

I have already purchased the 5950x and that's it!

What I need from my fellow enthusiasts is guidance in which threads to look on about things as :

1. Best mobos that support 5950x oc

2. Best Ram

3.Best advice on advanced cooling loops. ( eg double pumps? soft tubing vs hard. which tubing diameter is optimal, separate loop cpu-radiator and vga-radiator or connect them in line, cool the ram or not, get a monoblock or separate blocks etc)

4. PSU and many more thing!etc...

There are thousand threads in here and it would be impossible to manage without this community's help!

Thanks!

 

[EarthDog]

Oh how things have changed since 08... lol. These new chips, you won't get much out of them overclocking, especially AMD chips.

As far as the loop.. if only 5950x in it a 3x120mm radiator will work great. I think you mentioned dual loops for a gpu..but its hard to size a loop without knowing the gpu (it's hard today, indeed).

Hard/soft tubing is a choice, really. Hard tubing is more difficult to build, however.

PSU... also tough to size without knowing the gpu. That said, a 5950x and high end gpu, 850W is plenty.

Mobo - you don't need to go overboard. A midrange option is plenty good so long as it has all the features you need.

On the ram front, grab 2x16GB ddr4 3600 cl14/16. There isnt much point in going higher unless you're benchmarking competitively, really.

While you wait for mkre details from others, read the watercooling sticky threads... there as plenty there for you to read amd get your feet under you.

 

[Blaylock]

So the way the new AMD Ryzen works is the more cooling you have the more it will overclock itself. Previously, most of us would prefer to manually overclock our CPUs as we could achieve a higher overclock with lower volts. AMD has done a fantastic job with the way these CPUs manage their clocks. So much so that it takes all the fun out of overclocking. Many people are upset by this but in the end, it is a good thing.

As far as water cooling, I would stick with soft tubing if this is your first time. It tends to be more forgiving. If you are a patient person and willing to make a few mistakes before getting it right then hard tubing does look better when done properly, but aside from aesthetics, there is no advantage.

A good D5 pump will manage a CPU and GPU loop. The only reason to add a second pump in most loops would be for redundancy. But if maintained and set up properly there is no need for a second pump. (i.e. you can set your BIOS up to shut down in the event of xx°C temperature.)

ASRock and ASUS are my go-to motherboards. I haven't been a fan of Gigabyte for several generations. I would recommend getting a mid-grade or better board though as all manufacturers have had issues with their bottom-tier boards.

I agree with Earthdog on the ram. DDR4-3600 CL16 2x16 seems to be the sweet spot that has done Ryzen well for a few years. Any name brand will function well at stock settings and overclocking above 3600-3800 has marginal if any gains. G.Skill is my preferred brand but I have had good success with Team Group, Crucial, Corsair, and Oloy.

PSU's I am very particular about. This component above all tends to get re-used build after build so I want the best brand available. Currently, that means EVGA, Corsair, or Seasonic. That's not to say Cooler Master and others don't make a quality unit. I'm just saying the majority of the three I listed are great units. Find a mid-grade EVGA, Corsair, or Seasonic that has the power rating you're looking for and if it's on sale grab it.

Use PCPartpicker for building a parts list. You can link the list here and we can further help you fine-tune your build.


P.S. - to the OCF community!!!!

 

[Newbi 1 Kenewbi]

1st of all that was an very prompt response! I appreciate that.

Ill go step by step

"Oh how things have changed since 08... lol."

Indeed they have! towards the worst (VGA crisis) >( ...Back then stores were overflowing with goodies..

"These new chips, you won't get much out of them overclocking, especially AMD chips" This is good news. That means I wont have to go overboard & risk voiding the warranty to see great performance since the company has already taken care of that. So I will focus more of cooling it even better and it will take care of itself.

At this point I am going to admit sth embarrassing . Yes they got me there with their marketing tricks : I thought that 4.9 meant all cores...when it is single core boost only.. they say -200 Mhz when all cores are used. so I reckon realistically 4.5 all core productivity?

So I will be happy if I can oc to 4.7 24/7.


"As far as the loop.. if only 5950x in it a 3x120mm radiator will work great" I was thinking of an 9x140mm or 9x120mm radiator for everything with Push/Pull action to reduce effort and noise. Prolly double pumps.

Although hard tubing is aesthetically pleasing those 90 degrees angles create vortexes that decrease the flow.I used to think soft tubing looks amateur and ugly but now I realize that it is much more efficient. Like a roller coaster.

"a 5950x and high end gpu, 850W is plenty" That was my impression but word on the street is : "always subtract 150W from what the company claims and you will have the true output of that PSU" ? Is this legit?

"Mobo - you don't need to go overboard" That is good news but lately more & more ppl say if the VRM gets hot, CPU will throttle down automatically to protect the system. So I was hawking some water-forced mobos , unrealistically expensive on one hand but then again monoblocks are expensive as well and if not made well the VRM part may be responsible for the cold plate not to touch perfectly on the CPU.. so overall is the increased price of the waterforced worth it by saving you the hustle?

"On the ram front, grab 2x16GB ddr4 3600 cl14/16" Bingo! but why not be more generous with a 4x16gb so that I can take advantage of that "up to 20% more efficiency when using all 4 slots" ( unless it is a myth) Plus I kind feel a bit bad my cell phone having 12gb of RAm and my pc only 32.

Once again thank you for your reply!

 

[EarthDog]

At this point I am going to admit sth embarrassing . Yes they got me there with their marketing tricks : I thought that 4.9 meant all cores...when it is single core boost only.. they say -200 Mhz when all cores are used. so I reckon realistically 4.5 all core productivity?

4.5 ghz or so sounds right for 24/7.

I was thinking of an 9x140mm or 9x120mm radiator for everything with Push/Pull action to reduce effort and noise. Prolly double pumps.

with that much rad (even with 350W gpu), I'm sure you can set fans on low and forget it.

That was my impression but word on the street is : "always subtract 150W from what the company claims and you will have the true output of that PSU" ? Is this legit?

Maybe for trash power supplies... and more so back in 08, lol. A quality unit puts out its nameplate values.

That is good news but lately more & more ppl say if the VRM gets hot, CPU will throttle down automatically to protect the system.

true...but any decent mid-range board will handle it.

Bingo! but why not be more generous with a 4x16gb so that I can take advantage of that "up to 20% more efficiency when using all 4 slots" ( unless it is a myth)

...never heard of that, bud.

Figure out what gpu you want?

 

[Blaylock]

A 9x120/140 radiator is over kill for even an SLI set up, but if that's what you WANT to do then don't let me discourage you. For a cpu/GPU build 5x120 or 6x120 is more than adequate.

For PSUs you want to be within about 10-15% of their max for any quality unit. So for an 600W PSU figure 500-550W, for a 850W figure 725-750W.

 

[Newbi 1 Kenewbi]

"So the way the new AMD Ryzen works is the more cooling you have the more it will overclock itself. Previously, most of us would prefer to manually overclock our CPUs as we could achieve a higher overclock with lower volts. AMD has done a fantastic job with the way these CPUs manage their clocks. So much so that it takes all the fun out of overclocking. Many people are upset by this but in the end, it is a good thing."

Good, good! we stay inside the safe margins. Plus I am gonna bust myself to built the loop cause this huge radiator I am gonna put will need a modified case with custom changes. So when done I will want to enjoy it for a bit b4 ocing. I hope PBO tweaking etc will live up to the hype.


"As far as water cooling, I would stick with soft tubing if this is your first time" As i said to Earthdog soft tubing looks messy but it is the most efficient. But I will need advice on how to make the loop. CPU -Radiator? or CPU - VGA- RAM- Radiator? It is gonna be a huge single radiator less hustle - more surface -easier to dust off. But it will have dual input and dual output. I reckon it is to feed the VGA and CPU separately so that they both get cool liquid directly instead of eg the vga getting CPU's already warm water. This is what I need pros here to explain to me based on their experience.

"A good D5 pump will manage a CPU and GPU loop. The only reason to add a second pump in most loops would be for redundancy. But if maintained and set up properly there is no need for a second pump" what if I use dual pumps so that they will share the load between them and be more quiet plus more flow?


"ASRock and ASUS are my go-to motherboards. I haven't been a fan of Gigabyte for several generations. I would recommend getting a mid-grade or better board though as all manufacturers have had issues with their bottom-tier boards."

A friend of mine in '08,who used a Vapochill to achieve crazy speeds, (when other didnt even know what a liquid loop was) always hated Asus for oc. but that was then, maybe things have changed?


"I agree with Earthdog on the ram. DDR4-3600 CL16 2x16 seems to be the sweet spot that has done Ryzen well for a few years. Any name brand will function well at stock settings and overclocking above 3600-3800 has marginal if any gains."

What about ocing more than 3800 so as to get advantage of the Infinity Fabric? Is infinity fabric any good or is it just AMD hyped marketing? Totally in the dark here.

"PSU's I am very particular about. This component above all tends to get re-used build after build so I want the best brand available. Currently, that means EVGA, Corsair, or Seasonic." Couldn't agree more. We need to feed them stable- good quality voltage. how do you feel about the "always subtract 150W from what the company claims and you will have the true output of that PSU" rule?

Sorry guys I do not know yet how to multi-quote!

Nice to find a good- hearted company of fellow enthusiasts!

- - - Auto-Merged Double Post - - -

''Figure out what gpu you want?''

6900XT when the pricing is right.

Nvidia and Intel are dead to me.

( Actually I am gonna put this as my signature)

 

[EarthDog]

You can highlight the text and press the quotes button.

Nvidia and Intel are dead to me.

...that's a shame... but to each their own.

how do you feel about the "always subtract 150W from what the company claims and you will have the true output of that PSU" rule

its not true unless it's a trash psu. We're not shopping for trash.

6900XT when the pricing is right.

ok, so 5/6 x 120/140mm is plenty of radiator for that setup.

But I will need advice on how to make the loop. CPU -Radiator? or CPU - VGA- RAM- Radiator? It is gonna be a huge single radiator less hustle - more surface -easier to dust off. But it will have dual input and dual output. I reckon it is to feed the VGA and CPU separately so that they both get cool liquid directly instead of eg the vga getting CPU's already warm water. This is what I need pros here to explain to me based on their experience.

for this bit of info, the guides I was talking about covers that. In short, loop order doesn't matter outside of making sure your res is before the pump.

 

[Newbi 1 Kenewbi]

My bad it was single vs dual channel

"Your CPU and RAM transfer a staggering amount of data through a 64-bit channel. With a single stick, you get one pipeline to funnel this data through. With a pair, you get two. Hence: theoretically double the data transfer. In reality, however, various benchmarks have proven that “dual channel” setups give about a 20% boost over “single channel” rigs"


(Source https://gaminggem.com/how-much-ram-gaming/)

But to make amends this guy here (looks familiar ) shows that there is a slightly better performance in a a quad vs dual channel

(Source https://www.pcworld.com/article/298...ing-truth-about-their-performance.html?page=2)


(I do apologise in advance in hotlinking is not allowed.)

 

[EarthDog]

The x570 platform is dual channel, even with 4 sticks.

For you, 2x16GB is fine.

 

[Newbi 1 Kenewbi]

Well, they forced my hand!

Nvidia put the final nail in the coffin with the ultimate corporate-lvl-scalping they have done with the Ti models.(whilst AMD found ways for old card owners to keep using their hardware.)

As for Intel a few years ago just for fun I tried looking for an AMD laptop..only 2 I found with that crappy A10. At that point I realised this is a dangerous monopoly.. Monopoly is never good. Monopoly creates laziness and a lack of inspiration and innovation (eg sitting on 14nm while others prepare for 5 nm). Also the bullying they have done on AMD all those years.. Plus what about them knowing since forever about those backdoor vulnerabilities "Meltdown and Spectre" and never letting us know?

This is gonna be my 1st AMD system. I always avoided AMD due to the high temp issues they had.

Tbh I would prefer a "multipoly" that this duopoly we are having.

Eg I wouldnt mind giving a try on Biostar who is not a famous company but had the ingenuity of making an AMD only mobo without the SLI amenities which an amd user will not use. ( taking them out of the overall cost). I have read OC's article.

https://www.overclockers.com/biostar-z590-valkyrie-motherboard-review/

My friends disagree with me saying " nah go with known brands they know their stuff regarding oc"

 

[Newbi 1 Kenewbi]

The x570 platform is dual channel, even with 4 sticks.

For you, 2x16GB is fine.

I admire your patience with us noobs!

 

[EarthDog]

Interesting take on things.

I can see your point with the Ti versions, but, in fairness, they do tend to fill price or performance (or both) gaps in the product stack. Not well, but, they do.

Laptops are a whole different ballgame... AMD's APUs are actually pretty solid, especially on the integrated video.

RE: The vulnerabilities, that was a bit underhanded, though the vector didn't really affect home users so much as data centers (arguably more important).

The Biostar Valkyrie boards for Intel Z590 was pretty good, otherwise, most of their stuff is more entry-level for AMD (X570 GT8 is their flagship and it will be OK, but, I'd get other boards over it around the same price point personally). As far as other brands, I like ASRock's PG Velocita, Asus -E Gaming, Gigabyte is solid too in the mid-range. The difference, to me, comes down to price, looks, and required features/specs. Any in that $250+ range will easily have the chops (VRMs and cooling) to handle

Hell, if you don't plan to have a shed load of storage (read: 2+ M.2 drives and 4+ SATA), B550 boards are an option as well.

 

[Newbi 1 Kenewbi]

thanks it's thread-study time now. It's a pity though, spending all this time to update your knowledge on things..then you get to a very good point & you built your rig only to go through the same process in 5 years time trying to remember eg "what did the VRM do.. what the hell is AHCI?? Why does Linus look so lonely & disappointed"

Well, I suppose it's the cycle of Life or RAM idk

 

[Newbi 1 Kenewbi]

A bit of photography as a thank you.

 

[Voodoo Rufus]

Welcome to the forums, and all of the above posters have given great advice. Show us build pictures as you progress. I can't wait to see the cooling system build in particular.

I've never tried hard tubing, but I also cringe at the number of 90 degree fittings and bends people put in.

 

[Newbi 1 Kenewbi]

hi there,

So, for mobo I have decided on the the x570S Aorus Master which has 14 + 2 phases (true phases no doublers or splitters) compared to 12 + 2 that the previous model has. I do not know whether this is an overkill or not but a 16 core CPU I think it needs feeding. Could I be ok with just the 12+2 phases model and maybe save some money from the awaited-to-be more-expensive-model?

Regarding its silent cooling system maybe it works wonders or maybe I'll have to rip it off and hydrocool the VRM and chipset. Who knows. Those "reviewers" just show you the mobo like if it was a painting. None of them uses a thermal cam (too stingy/lazy) to show how it acts irl.


As the RAM I have decided on the G.Skill TridentZ Neo 2x16gb 3600 cl 14

or

Ballistix 2x32gb 3600 cl16 (BL2K32G36C16U4B) to futureproof any ram demands that may occur.

Btw disturbing news about the Ram density scam that some companies are trying to pull on us behind our backs as per Linus/Jarrod's tech latest reviews.

Vga : I won't even comment on that 🤣

Nvme : 980 Pro (1 or 2tb though?)

- - - Auto-Merged Double Post - - -

Regarding the cooling one big rad or 3 smaller ones? does it even make any difference?

 

[EarthDog]

Either VRM is fine for your CPU.

Unless you were using PCIe 4.0 things, that chipset never needed active cooling, really. Reviewers don't test it because they are well cooled regardless. I'd consider PCH temperature minutia.

NVMe: Size is up to you, not us.. What do you want/need/afford?

RAM density scam????????
EDIT: Oh, heh.. I wouldn't call it a scam.. but.. yeah. I know what you're referring to now.

 

[Newbi 1 Kenewbi]

Either VRM is fine for your CPU.

Unless you were using PCIe 4.0 things, that chipset never needed active cooling, really. Reviewers don't test it because they are well cooled regardless. I'd consider PCH temperature minutia.

NVMe: Size is up to you, not us.. What do you want/need/afford?

RAM density scam????????

in the end he says that they might try to pull this scam on PC ram as well.

 

[Newbi 1 Kenewbi]

RAM density scam????????
EDIT: Oh, heh.. I wouldn't call it a scam.. but.. yeah. I know what you're referring to now.

since they neither inform the customer that they are using the specific modules or at least drop the price of the model, to me it seems like a scam. So ppl are paying to get the specific gaming laptop only to find out it suffers a 20%(!!!) drop in performance?

and what worries me the most is what Linus said at the end that this could spread to Pc Ram as well. Now imagine testing with the best chips and dazzle you with that performance and then go ahead and change the chip without telling anyone and sell you that.

But they cover their tushy as well, by stating "depends on your system" ... so "its your crappy pc's fault not ours that those dimms can't pull it" 😂

A few days ago he had another review about another scam regarding Nvmes.