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i5 vs New Phenom II sales - Newegg review count curiosity

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Malakai

New Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2001
Location
Fl
Anyone else find it odd that the apparently oh so popular i5 has only 200 something newegg reviews, while the newer Phenom II's have a lot more?


Overall reviews on i5+i7's vs Phenom II's, it seems like a lot more Phenom IIs and Athlon II's are selling compared to current Intel offerings.

Almost everywhere I go, except this forum of course :salute:, everyone always seems to be trashing AMD. Most review site front pages frequently trash AMDs performance compared to intel, constantly noting that "Phenom IIs are still slower than our old Core2Quad refernce scores in X and Y benchmark".

Well to me it sure seems like people are realizing that, moreso than ever, todays benchmark scores DO NOT reflect real world performance, at all. Even the most die hard Intel loving forum posters and review sites are forced to acknowledge that clock for clock, Phenom II's are virtually identical to Core i*'s in gaming. They are always quick to jump in with a comment about how sandra memory bandwidth benches on i5s and i7s can reach 1.5-3x (in the case of trip channel ddr3-1600/2000 on the 1366 platform), or this other CPU benchmark shows the Phenom II barely edging out old 1000 dollar Core2Quads, ect.

But where are the sales numbers to back it all up? The i7 920 has a beastly number of newegg reviews no doubt, but other than that, not many intel chips have a high review/purchase count. And nearly everyone I know that buys a cpu leaves a comment on the egg, everyone wants to throw a vote to the cpu they spent their hard earned money on, especially now when money is real right everywhere and a new cpu is a significant non-essential purchase.

Aside from the 920, theres not a lot of review counts for other intel chips. Even the highly lauded "gamers CPU"(laff) i5 only has a mere 216 reviews after christmas shopping is pretty much over. Many, many Phenom IIs and Athlon II's have more than that, a lot significantly more. The 955BE, 940BE, 620 Propus, 720BE X3, and a few cheap dual cores have a lot more than that. And the 965 flavors are rising fast too.

Im not fanboying out here, Im just curious that newegg, pretty much THE premiere site for forum going hardware review reading enthusiasts to buy their CPUs at, is showing that it seems a lot more AMD chips are selling compared to i5s and i7's. I think there is a good chance that its because they simply are. Intels chips, even the budget ones, are quite expensive. Intels cheapest modern budget chip is the i5 and its still 200 bucks solid. AMDs most expensive chip, the C3 965 which is basically guaranteed to do 4ghz on halfway decent air, is less than that. And in the next month or 2 I expect the C3 955 to explode in sales too as its a 175 dollar chip thats also gonna do 4ghz easy.

Also AMD motherboard prices deserve their own little paragraph here. Most respectable quality, nice feature set, and top brand motherboards on the i5/i7 side of things are at or over 200 bucks. Closer to 300 still for 1366 boards. This is slowly changing, but it wasnt in time for xmas 09, which was a big deal considering sagging retail sales throughout the year. However, on the AMD side, most people can get away with an 80 dollar 785G/sb710 motherboard, and those of us who want SATA raid only needed to step up to a 100-120 dollar 790GX/sb750 mobo. All my joe sixpack customers were fine with the 80 dollar solution. Thats pretty impressive savings over a 200-300 dollar Intel board. And these are not the crappy brand, bug ridden, VIA chipsets of the past. This generations AMD chipsets are fast, stable, feature packed, and CHEAP! An 80 dollar gigabyte/asus/msi board that can run a 4ghz 965BE with 4-8gb of ddr3-1600+ is just fun. And the rest of us are only paying 110-120 for 790gx or 150-170 for absolute top quality top priced 790FX boards, which can run 2 x16 or 1 x16/ 2 x8 ultra high performance multi gpu setups. No i5 board period, no matter the cost, can do 2 x16 or 3 gpus, period.

However much Intel users love their chips, they just spent a lot on their core2quads last year or this year, and the chip + mobo they want next costs a pretty penny together. Meanwhile the AMD chip us AMD peeps are looking at are fast and cheap. And the mobos are cheap, I mean really cheap. You can build a screaming C3 965 4ghz monster machine on a freakin 80 dollar mobo!! And reuse your cheap but fast and low latency ddr2 that you paid 50 bucks per 4 gigs a year ago too, to further lower what your spending.

Im going to be very, very interested to see the Q4 09 and Q1 10 sales figures for Intel and AMD. I know Intel is making a lot more profit per CPU sold than AMD very likely, but there are lots and lots of AMD chips flying around. And they are so cheap (and backwards/forwards compatible with the last 2-3 generations of motherboards) that a lot of us have already upgraded from one Phenom II class chip to another faster one. I got a 940BE in February and then a 955BE in what, July or August? Then I went and sold my 940BE to a friend for his box for like 10 bucks less than I paid for it LOL! SCORE~~

Anyway sorry its late, Im tired, Im rambling. I was just curious and would love to know what you guys think. Is it possible that AMD with their slower chips might actually pull ahead for Q4 09? I mean, its hard to wrong with fast, extremely efficient, and cheap. And by efficient I mean with the dies. No matter what part of a deneb core fails, there is a sellable CPU AMD can make with it, L3 cache, any 2 cores, on and on, AMD can still stick some label on it and sell it. This was a brilliant move by AMD by the way, its why I think they have been able to make their Phenom II/Athlon II's so crazy cheap. Their flagship cpus for under 200 dollars is practically unhead of. And

I am still shocked that we got a 100 dollar quad core this year. I've stuck Athlon II X4 620's in 4 customer PCs so far and everyone is totally ecstatic about them. A fully modern tech, ddr2 or 3, quad core CPU for 100 dollars is just crazy, the price of a total budget single core cpu from just a few years ago. It used to be a 100 dollar cpu was from at least one generation behind, and absolute bottom of teh barrel performance bracket. The 620's are respectable at stock and o/c extremely well, not 1 of the ones in a system I built are running at less than 3ghz, cept the media center pc one which cool and quiet is priority #1.

I know a 2.6ghz L3-less CPU is not a big deal for many enthusiasts, but for your joe sixpack users its perfect. Many, many people are still on sub 1gb ram single core CPUs from several generations back. Most of the rest are on old dual core Intel and AMD chips. These people could upgrade to 4gb of dual channel ddr3-1333+, a 620 X4, and 785G motherboard (and be getting far faster and better dx10 4k series onboard graphics compared to their intel onboard crap) for what, 250-280 dollars? Thats a weeks paycheck at part time minimum wage, and a fraction of the cost of a much slower store bought PC. Or slightly over the price of Intels cheapest modern CPUs, or the same or less than the cost of most of their lineup.


So yeah, Im done, I just want to end with the fact that I think AMD did a damn impressive job with this generation of CPUs. Sure they are not the fastest in all things, but benchmarks aside their real world performance is pretty damn close to far far more expensve Intel offerings. And their budget lineup is just amazing bang for the buck, with a 50 dollar dual core and 100 dollar quad core that perform extremely respectably. Most joe sixpack users could easily get by on a 50 dollar regor, and a 100 dollar propus would be overkill for their myspacing and the sims/flash games playing. My customers on 4gb ddr2/3 and 620's are all amazed at how fast their machines are, and how freaking cheap they were. So keep up the good work AMD, a lot of us are hurting for money right now, we really appreciate that you focused on keeping prices down so much for us this year, when its more important than ever in many of our lifetimes.

I cant wait to see Q4 09 sales numbers, and how things pan out in 2010. It doesnt look like the economy is going to be getting any better, not by a long shot, in this coming year, so hopefully the far superior price/performance will put AMD back in the game (I totally admit Phenom 1 was an abysmal failure, I skipped that gen and almost went core2quad when the 940BE came out and I was rescued from a core2 lol). It would also be really, really nice if some major store OEMs like Dell would realize the killings they could be making using super cheap Athlon IIs in a new generation of super cheap but killer performance budget machines. Just start using some quality parts, I hate store machines with garbage no name PSUs that cant handle a single added watt of power usage, and no name mobos that cant be upgraded and caps that explode in a year hehe.

Post thoughts!!
 
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The_Smurph

Registered
Joined
Nov 29, 2008
Sweet! I will be purchasing mine ASAP to replace my toasted 940. Btw I wouldnt base much on reviews at newegg. While I would love to see AMD give inhell a run for its money, they really dropped the ball with the original phenom and are still behind by roughly a year. Hopefully Bulldozer will be able to catch AMD up by 6 months. Remember Inhell will have its 32nm parts out this year, while AMD will still be using 45nm parts. Which relates to a higher silicon cost / chip. Also remember the Phenom 2 has been out for roughly a year while the i5 has been out for not even 6 months.
 

deadlysyn

Folding Team Content Editor, Who Dolk'd my stars S
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The big thing to keep in mind here, is that Newegg reviews do not reflect actual sales. Just because more people bought AMD, installed it, and the rig booted, so they decided to post a review, does not mean that more AMD sold. It just means that more people with AMD decided to review.

There are also people that post reviews on NE that say that a cooler is a piece of garbage because it didn't fit their case, so the "modded" it by cutting off the tops of the heatpipes, and a portion of the fins. Moral of the story: Newegg reviews mean less than nothing, especially to most of us in this community.:beer:
 
OP
Malakai

Malakai

New Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2001
Location
Fl
The big thing to keep in mind here, is that Newegg reviews do not reflect actual sales. Just because more people bought AMD, installed it, and the rig booted, so they decided to post a review, does not mean that more AMD sold. It just means that more people with AMD decided to review.

There are also people that post reviews on NE that say that a cooler is a piece of garbage because it didn't fit their case, so the "modded" it by cutting off the tops of the heatpipes, and a portion of the fins. Moral of the story: Newegg reviews mean less than nothing, especially to most of us in this community.:beer:

Believe me I know that. Just that most people who buy a CPU usually believe they chose the CPU ordained by god and feel an irresistable need to post on newegg about how great their purchase was. I always do, like to throw a 5 star review behind a piece of hardware I think kicks butt, or else like to point out any flaws or problems for future buyers.

But your point is definitely totally valid. I was just reading a 2 star review on the 95w 945 because "its clearly slower than my old X2 dual core, media encoding is slower, dual cores are faster, ect ect retardect".

But most computer forum types I know do tend to leave reviews, and most of us do our shopping on newegg, so it seems at least somewhat of an indication specifically of forum going enthusiast sales.

I actually spend a lot of time reading the newegg reviews, sometimes for the occasional useful tidbit of info, and of course for comedic value :)

I really do love this years offerings from AMD. A year behind they may be, but their pricing scheme and ability to use every defective core in some sellable cpu was quite brilliant IMO, its like they planned on having them be extremely affordable even before knowing they would be behind Intel in performance. It's been an extremely hard year financially for me, as I have a nagging incurable health problem thats affected how much I can work; if it wasn't for AMD and their awesome platform prices, I would never have been able to go quad core, much less one that performs as well as my 955 BE. I really, really love my CPU. And that C3 version is really calling my name.

If I come across a good combo deal with a C3 955/965, a 790GX AM3 board, and a good deal on 4gb ddr3-1600 (I love the gskill 1.5v sticks), I doubt Ill be able to resist pulling the trigger. Also being able to reuse a friends 8gb of ddr2 I was given made it that much easier to afford. I ended up spending 180 bucks on mobo and cpu (original 940BE) combo, and the only other thing I needed was a good CPU cooler, which was only 30 bones. Then a friend needed a new box, and in exchange for me doing the labor for free, he took my 940 and I used the 955 he paid for. He had 8 gigs of ddr2 on hand too so again, AMDs backwards compatibility made the purchase very easy to afford.

Like I said, AMDs pricing is so good a lot of us have bought multiple CPUs from them this year. I doubt many people upgraded their i7-920's to a faster model, or will be replacing i5 750's with i7 920's, ect. Overall system price is just too high to upgrade so soon for most of us average folks! :comp:


Good feedback so far guys, thanks! I <3 this forum! I usually get nasty replies when talking about AMD on my other fav forums. Like LOL I5 IS TEH ONLY CPU 4 GAMERZ
 
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Archer0915

"The Expert"
Joined
Nov 3, 2008
I think the PhII will probably outsell the i5 for a while but the market will move and again find balance.
 

ChanceCoats123

d20 in a jacket
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Location
Illinois
This is true. I think part of the deal is that when it all comes down to it, buying an i7 on the x58 platform isn't much more expensive than the i5 + P55 platform so not many people are switching and are at least still going with the x58 for triple channel DDR3 and other nonsense like that.
 
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Malakai

Malakai

New Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2001
Location
Fl
This is true. I think part of the deal is that when it all comes down to it, buying an i7 on the x58 platform isn't much more expensive than the i5 + P55 platform so not many people are switching and are at least still going with the x58 for triple channel DDR3 and other nonsense like that.

Yeah I definitely agree with that, have said it myself in fact. Hyperthreading, coupled with the slight advantage i7 already had over Phenom II clock for clock, is what really made them shine brighter than Phenom II's in threaded apps and benchmarks. Well, the ddr3 triple channel was nice too, though mostly a gimmick as i5 reviews have shown that without hyperthreading, performance between the 2 at equal clockspeeds in REAL WORLD apps is virtually identical. Of course in mem bandwidth benchmarks, the trip channel ddr3 is simply unbeatable and gets crazy crazy numbers like 27-30gb/sec bwidth!

My little DDR2 Phenom II with 10gb/sec mem bandwidth scores manages to hang in very close with those much beefier memory busses in most benches and hang right with it in games tho... :)
 

ChanceCoats123

d20 in a jacket
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Location
Illinois
Yeah I definitely agree with that, have said it myself in fact. Hyperthreading, coupled with the slight advantage i7 already had over Phenom II clock for clock, is what really made them shine brighter than Phenom II's in threaded apps and benchmarks. Well, the ddr3 triple channel was nice too, though mostly a gimmick as i5 reviews have shown that without hyperthreading, performance between the 2 at equal clockspeeds in REAL WORLD apps is virtually identical. Of course in mem bandwidth benchmarks, the trip channel ddr3 is simply unbeatable and gets crazy crazy numbers like 27-30gb/sec bwidth!

My little DDR2 Phenom II with 10gb/sec mem bandwidth scores manages to hang in very close with those much beefier memory busses in most benches and hang right with it in games tho... :)

True there! And just an odd little factoid, switching to DDR3 allowed me to drop almost .5 in Super Pi 1M. Crazy!
 

Coupe

Registered
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Dec 2, 2008
Sweet! I will be purchasing mine ASAP to replace my toasted 940. Btw I wouldnt base much on reviews at newegg. While I would love to see AMD give inhell a run for its money, they really dropped the ball with the original phenom and are still behind by roughly a year. Hopefully Bulldozer will be able to catch AMD up by 6 months. Remember Inhell will have its 32nm parts out this year, while AMD will still be using 45nm parts. Which relates to a higher silicon cost / chip. Also remember the Phenom 2 has been out for roughly a year while the i5 has been out for not even 6 months.

Where AMD is really gunna have the chance to bypass Intel is in the APU for 2011. Remember Intel copies most of AMDs technology. AMD was the first 64 x86 CPU for the Mass market. AMD was the first to put the memory controller on the chip, and AMD will be the first to have a true CPU-GPU APU.

If this is done right by 2012 they will have the new 32 nm core on the APU.

Intel's Larabee is a fail. They will either have to buy out Nvidia, which since Fermi also looks like a fail, might actually happen, or they will have to make some sort of deal with Nvidia to get into the APU market.

Either way AMD/ATI looks like it might be one of the biggest comebacks in the recent memory.
 

The_Smurph

Registered
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Nov 29, 2008
Hey since we are talking Phenom 2's, I was wondering if the 955BE are binned differently than the 965BE's? Im debating about purchasing a C3 955 or a 965. It seems a waste to spend an extra 20 bucks for an extra 200mhz which I can do in seconds on my computer. Also the release for the 32nm Intel Processor parts is suppose to be during CES.
 

QuietIce

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Hey since we are talking Phenom 2's, I was wondering if the 955BE are binned differently than the 965BE's? Im debating about purchasing a C3 955 or a 965. It seems a waste to spend an extra 20 bucks for an extra 200mhz which I can do in seconds on my computer.
Odds on bet is that both CPUs will have the same top end. But there are rare chips that will perform better than average and those CPUs will probably be binned with the 965's ...
 

ChanceCoats123

d20 in a jacket
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Location
Illinois
If I'm not mistaken, the i3 and i5 32nm's have already been released. There was a post around here somewhere about it.

Edit: They have shipped, and will be available for purchase next month.

I believe he meant the APU as a whole at 32nm. Congratulations for intel now, they shipped a 32nm CPU. He is saying Amd will be shipping a 32nm CPU+GPU on the same die.
 

The_Smurph

Registered
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Nov 29, 2008
Odds on bet is that both CPUs will have the same top end. But there are rare chips that will perform better than average and those CPUs will probably be binned with the 965's ...

Thanks Quiet, thats what I wanted to know. I doubt I get a "rare"chip however lol, cant have that good of luck
 
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Malakai

Malakai

New Member
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Location
Fl
Just wait a week or 2, we should see some 955 C3 95w reviews by then. I also expect they will oc about the same as c3 965's, hopefully doing 4ghz as easily as the 965 C3's. In which case it will be real tempting to find a customer to buy my C2 965 for a new build and spend the 20 dollar diff on a c3.

I just got a new psu and new set of fans for my case, and now my C3 965 does 3.8 totally stable @1.5v, so im not in a big rush anymore =)

I anticipate the 955 C3 will become the enthusast gamer on a budget's CPU of choice for the next quarter tho, as the C2 955 has been all this quarter.

And just a note on the reviews of i5 vs Phenom II', I was talking specifically about the PhII's that came out the same time as i5. The 965 C2 already has more reviews than i5-750, the c3 has another 100 reviews 2 add to that, and the Athlon II 620 also came out around the same time and has more reviews than the i5 as well.

All together there are a lot more reviews posted last quarter for A2/Ph2 chips than all the new chips intel released Q4 put together, by a rather large amount actually. Aside from the i5 750 none of the other 1156 CPUs have even topped 100 reviews really. LOTS and lots of recent amd chips are way over that.
 

Coupe

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Dec 2, 2008
If I'm not mistaken, the i3 and i5 32nm's have already been released. There was a post around here somewhere about it.

Edit: They have shipped, and will be available for purchase next month.



This is true. AMD is behind in the fabrication process. I was referring to the APU (CPU and GPU on one chip). Intel has nothing to combat the APU right now and it seems to be the future! Initially the first APU will be 45nm (Phenom II) + GPU. If everything works out with that and the bulldozer is a good fab, they will spend the R&D to put the 32 nm Bulldozer on the APU. It seems really exciting to have a CPU and GPGPU accelerating your Desktop performance.

Also since the lawsuits against Intel, AMD can now go FABLESS. This means that AMD can outsource its fabrication production.

This will lead to increased spending in R&D and give AMD the resources to catch up with Intels excellent work.

Intel will have their high end market share intact for at least another year unless these lawsuits bury them. However, AMD is competing well in the midrange market. Intel is the best, but AMDs upgradeability is very important for many system builders.
 
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Coupe

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Dec 2, 2008
Just wait a week or 2, we should see some 955 C3 95w reviews by then. I also expect they will oc about the same as c3 965's, hopefully doing 4ghz as easily as the 965 C3's. In which case it will be real tempting to find a customer to buy my C2 965 for a new build and spend the 20 dollar diff on a c3.

I just got a new psu and new set of fans for my case, and now my C3 965 does 3.8 totally stable @1.5v, so im not in a big rush anymore =)

I anticipate the 955 C3 will become the enthusast gamer on a budget's CPU of choice for the next quarter tho, as the C2 955 has been all this quarter.

And just a note on the reviews of i5 vs Phenom II', I was talking specifically about the PhII's that came out the same time as i5. The 965 C2 already has more reviews than i5-750, the c3 has another 100 reviews 2 add to that, and the Athlon II 620 also came out around the same time and has more reviews than the i5 as well.

All together there are a lot more reviews posted last quarter for A2/Ph2 chips than all the new chips intel released Q4 put together, by a rather large amount actually. Aside from the i5 750 none of the other 1156 CPUs have even topped 100 reviews really. LOTS and lots of recent amd chips are way over that.

Very interesting post. I think that there is no compelling reason to avoid the i7-920 in favor of the i5's. I may be wrong.