i9-14900K, necessity to overclock question

[Apharex]

Dear all, it has been 10+ years since I had to get a new rig, which I just did.

My last chip was a I7-3960X, which back in the day we set CPU voltage and Sync all cores with a multiplier til stable.
My old rig is still going through, after running at 4.0ghz for 10+yrs, but at least, it is time to catch up>


So Now I have the new i9-14900K, and tried to 'relearn' how to overclock, as so much as changed it seems.
And initially, all I seems to be doing, is generating a lot of 'heat' instead of meaningful performance gains...
(talking idle temp going from 36'c to 54'c, for a performance game of 6% on bench, which.... doesn't seem to worth it.)

I have noticed more rewarding performance gain on 'Memory tweaking' so far.

Quesiton to all, with 24cores in the i9, is it actually necessary to overclock the CPU like 'days of old'?
Or should I be happy with the stock setting, and attempt to let the chip live longer with better thermals?

Any opinions welcomed.

 

[Woomack]

These CPUs are not really overclocking because of the high temperatures. You can play with various settings, but usually higher clock requires higher voltages or higher power limits. With higher voltages/power, temps go even higher. Higher temps cause thermal throttling, and you get even worse performance than before overclocking.
For the new top AMD and Intel, it's recommended that the CPU voltage be lowered and then you can check if you can set 100-200MHz more. Some chips will do that, some not. If not, then at the lowered voltage, you can keep lower temps at stock clocks, and automatically, the CPU will boost higher or keep higher clocks for longer. By the lower voltage, I mean about -0.1-0.15V.

Overclocking the 14900K is possible but probably a waste of time, as you won't notice any difference.

 

[BugFreak]

I don't think any of us overclock because the system needs to but we still do. Unless you're willing to invest in a custom water cooling setup (not AIO) then I don't think its worth it these days. As Woomack said, there is too much heat to make it worth while. Especially with a 14900K so let the stock boost handle it and concentrate on the GPU or like you are the memory.

 

[Flamethrower1972]

I don't think any of us overclock because the system needs to but we still do. Unless you're willing to invest in a custom water cooling setup (not AIO) then I don't think its worth it these days. As Woomack said, there is too much heat to make it worth while. Especially with a 14900K so let the stock boost handle it and concentrate on the GPU or like you are the memory.

I agree the new CPU'S preform so well it does not seem like a good idea. I am getting the i5-14600k if I do OC it, I will use a program like Intel Extreme Overclocking program. Just my 2 cents.

 

[freeagent]

I will use a program like Intel Extreme Overclocking program.

That's the wrong attitude mister.

The correct attitude is **** software, use the bios

 

[Flamethrower1972]

That's the wrong attitude mister.

The correct attitude is **** software, use the bios

Or that. Good point.

 

[Pabloottawa]

the 14900k has come a long way in terms of the new microcode which was released a few days ago and as long as you know how to overclock and undervolt properly you can get a good chunk of performance out of it and stay under 1.3volts without spiking at startup or while calling up apps. The base clock for the 14900k is 3.2Gb so yeah, it’s built for overclocking…… just not as well as Intel used to build them.
Mine is running 5.7Gb at or under 1.3 volts with temps staying below 90c. It’s a good balance between performance and power draw.
As for the threads. This chip has 8 PHYSICAL cores. For the most part these cores are what count. The rest are great for programs that support more than 8 cores which there are not a lot of in the gaming arena.

By the way. The stock thermals even while using Intel default settings are atrociously high. The 14900k on its lowest settings still reach 100c and over volt with insane voltage spikes of over 1.5 volts

You NEED to get that under control so just setting it on its lowest default settings (which is intel default settings) will NOT prolong this chip’s life. It will actually leave it on its path to premature degradation.
In terms of generic *modern* BIOS lingo look into:
- using the correct load line calibration mode or number.
- lock your watts at 253 for both long and short duration
-lock your Amps at 307
Set your clock speed to 57 on all Pcores and leave the Ecores alone.

Tweaking memory timings and speeds do help but you most likely bought memory that isn’t running over volted, and overheating. Leave the memory alone and concentrate on getting your volts and temps down. It’s important if you want your CPU to last.

 

[Pabloottawa]

That's the wrong attitude mister.

The correct attitude is **** software, use the bios

I have to agree here. Intel’s extreme overclocking program has the job of going into the BIOS through windows and make changes…. So you boot up your PC, the bios boots according to its given settings. Using flamethrower’s words, he’s implying that he is running everything at stock so the BIOS boots on the original settings and then needs to change all the settings on the fly while in windows to something specified by a windows program. That’s a tall order unless you are looking to test each and every change one at a time and even then. Once you turn off your PC, those setting are GONE. The settings go back to whatever was originally set in the BIOS and then Intel’s ETU has to make the changes again. Not good for your CPU.

Anyone who has put the time and effort into learning how to overclock the right way will never tell you to use that utility. It’s great for verifying a few things while in windows but in my opinion using the BIOS is far more effective and trouble free.

 

[freeagent]

I used to do that when I ran old HP systems decades ago.. couldnt oc in bios, but had nforce chipset, so nvidia letcha do it.

Ryzen Master does the exact same thing, and it is a complete turd imo. That is why I along with others push bios tuning.

 

[Pabloottawa]

These CPUs are not really overclocking because of the high temperatures. You can play with various settings, but usually higher clock requires higher voltages or higher power limits. With higher voltages/power, temps go even higher. Higher temps cause thermal throttling, and you get even worse performance than before overclocking.
For the new top AMD and Intel, it's recommended that the CPU voltage be lowered and then you can check if you can set 100-200MHz more. Some chips will do that, some not. If not, then at the lowered voltage, you can keep lower temps at stock clocks, and automatically, the CPU will boost higher or keep higher clocks for longer. By the lower voltage, I mean about -0.1-0.15V.

Overclocking the 14900K is possible but probably a waste of time, as you won't notice any difference.

I don't think any of us overclock because the system needs to but we still do. Unless you're willing to invest in a custom water cooling setup (not AIO) then I don't think its worth it these days. As Woomack said, there is too much heat to make it worth while. Especially with a 14900K so let the stock boost handle it and concentrate on the GPU or like you are the memory.

That’s no longer true as of October 2nd, 2024. Setting your BIOS to “Intel default settings” for the 14900k will fry your CPU and CONTINUE to enable premature degradation/oxydation.

See my previous posts for clarity.

 

[EarthDog]

That’s no longer true as of October 2nd, 2024. Setting your BIOS to “Intel default settings” for the 14900k will fry your CPU and CONTINUE to enable premature degradation/oxydation.

See my previous posts for clarity.

So, even with 0x12b microcode/BIOS, setting Intel default settings (an option that, pre 0x129, was said to return stability and I thought limit degredation until the new microcode) makes it run the high voltages/etc. again??

 

[infinitevalence]

The fix was to reduce voltage/heat so overclocking will just burn out the CPU. What you should really do is undervolt! Find the lowest possible power settings that keep the majority of the performance on the table.

 

[EarthDog]

so overclocking will just burn out the CPU.

Looks at URL... still OVERCLOCKERS.com... *whew*

 

[infinitevalence]

Looks at URL... still OVERCLOCKERS.com... *whew*

O yeah no doubt, but still seems like a crazy CPU to push to the breaking point when we clearly know it has one.

 

[EarthDog]

O yeah no doubt, but still seems like a crazy CPU to push to the breaking point when we clearly know it has one.

They all do, friend, they allllllll do.

 

[infinitevalence]

They all do, friend, they allllllll do.

haha, to this day I have never killed a CPU when overclocking, but then I have never been pushing LN2 or any other extreme type of cooling.

 

[EarthDog]

haha, to this day I have never killed a CPU when overclocking, but then I have never been pushing LN2 or any other extreme type of cooling.

I've killed them on Dry Ice, LN2, custom water (not a leak), and air in my day (*shakes fist in the air, lol). They all die when pushed too hard... or the board goes poof... or....... yeah.

Point was, if you want to overclock these things, just do it. I'd honestly feel better with all the mitigations applied as at least it's not spiking anymore on it's own and you're applying a manual voltage in a lot of cases (unless you use offsets, of course - then it's still 'auto').

Im just trying to understand what Pablo was getting at.

 

[Pabloottawa]

So, even with 0x12b microcode/BIOS, setting Intel default settings (an option that, pre 0x129, was said to return stability and I thought limit degredation until the new microcode) makes it run the high voltages/etc. again??

Yes…. I tested it again and again and again and on intel default settings, it’s drawing anywhere between 1.3 - 1.5 volts which is not the range you want to be in.

On my MSI MPG Z790 Edge Wifi, the BIOS is set to “MSI unlimited” and overclocked to 5.7Ghz running between 1.2-1.3volts under load with stock intel default power profile of 253watts and 307 amps.

Running CinebenchR23 gives me scores between 34k-37k with max temps not exceeding 88c

The reason my voltages are low is because I have my loan line calibration and lite load calibrations dialed in.

Overclocked, low voltage under load, runs relatively cool and best of all, no voltage spikes

By the way; I am NOT running a custom loop. Its simply the Liquid Freezer III 360 A-RGB AIO closed loop.

If you have an MSI board with a 14900k, DM me and let’s see if we can help you get there.

 

[EarthDog]

I thought the 14900K was good to 5.8GHz (tvb)? Did you raise other cores up? Maybe I'm just tired, lol.

Maybe it's only me, but, I'm not worried about the life of my chip if it's peaking below 1.5V. I know you can get it down lower, and that's awesome, but they can live long lives if they aren't sitting that high (besides, even a custom loop can't handle more than 1.4V or so out of these an keep them from under 100C).

Anyhow, not doubting what you're doing, just trying to confirm (and wanting to understand how you came to that conclusion) what you said earlier about enabling Intel defaults after the 0x12b (or 0x129) raises voltages again. Wonder why the option is there still...

 

[Pabloottawa]

I thought the 14900K was good to 5.8GHz (tvb)? Did you raise other cores up? Maybe I'm just tired, lol.

Maybe it's only me, but, I'm not worried about the life of my chip if it's peaking below 1.5V. I know you can get it down lower, and that's awesome, but they can live long lives if they aren't sitting that high (besides, even a custom loop can't handle more than 1.4V or so out of these an keep them from under 100C).

Anyhow, not doubting what you're doing, just trying to confirm (and wanting to understand how you came to that conclusion) what you said earlier about enabling Intel defaults after the 0x12b (or 0x129) raises voltages again. Wonder why the option is there still...

I came to that conclusion because I tested it and had to change my settings to get the voltages and heat under control. I don’t know how it works I just know that it wasn’t working at its best so I made some changes to the BIOS and got the voltages and heat under control. The option is there as a band aid. It won’t fix anything unless you tweak the BIOS settings