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Instructions for making a shim?

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h2k

Member
Joined
Dec 18, 2000
Location
Vancouver, Canada
How would I make my own copper... or metal shim?
I can't buy one because there aren't any available locally, and I can't use the creditcard to buy one online.
 

Colin

Arctic Silver Senior
Joined
Dec 19, 2000
Shims are like training wheels and according to Joe's research (see the front page) they negatively affect cooling. Why would you want one?
 
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William

Guest
they have detrimental affects, even the non conductive ones, but only by 1-2C. I actually get better contact on my celey as the POS Retail was sitting at an angle and the shim leveled it out. I wouldn't make them though, they have to be made very precisely and if you make one too short, its pointless, too high, you never make contact with the core which is very bad. If you want one, several places sell the nonconductive ones. I wholly recommend one for a GW hsf as I cracked the core of a duron with one and I will take the worst results to save another $30. But if you have a hsf with a much better mounting system(Swiftech's is the best) such as a Vantec, you don't need one.
 
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h2k

Member
Joined
Dec 18, 2000
Location
Vancouver, Canada
I need one to level out the heatsink, because I lapped my volcano II and it hasn't been sitting straight ever since. I checked the levelness with the edge of one of those rulers, but I'd like to get a shim or something to level it, unless anyone has a better idea!
 
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William

Guest
by all means get a shim, just leveling the hsf out will yield better results even with the detrimental effects of a shim. http://www.coolerguys.com has some nonconductive shims, they are good too, i have an AMD and an Intel one, they work well!
 

cjtune

Member
Joined
Dec 18, 2000
h2k (Jul 05, 2001 12:22 a.m.):
I need one to level out the heatsink, because I lapped my volcano II and it hasn't been sitting straight ever since. I checked the levelness with the edge of one of those rulers, but I'd like to get a shim or something to level it, unless anyone has a better idea!

Trust me when I say levelling your HS' contact to the core is NOT easy. I've done alignment jobs on industrial drives and pumps and we do this by putting shims under each machines' footing WITH THE HELP OF A LASER SIGHTED ALIGNMENT TOOL. This need for accuracy and precision is just as crucial when one is trying to ensure a near-perfect flat-to-flat surface mating for heat transfer. Just continue sandpapering your Volcano (with the help of a flat surface like a sheet of glass) till 'it sits up straight again'. No need to be too precise, but make sure it doesn't noticeably tilt to one side and the mating surface to the CPU core MSUT be flat. The clamping from the HSF's clip will take care of the rest.
 

Kingslayer

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 12, 2001
Location
Port Charlotte, Florida
I don't see shims being detrimental. Even if it does make your CPU 1-2 degrees hotter. It's a $10.00 insurance policy for a $150 chip.

How is that detrimental?
 

stompah

Deep Pain Senior Member
Joined
Apr 16, 2001
Kingslayer (Jul 06, 2001 07:56 a.m.):
I don't see shims being detrimental. Even if it does make your CPU 1-2 degrees hotter. It's a $10.00 insurance policy for a $150 chip.

How is that detrimental?
How is adding 1-2 degrees an insurance policy? And against what?
I have taken my time placing my HSF assembly on both my celly and duron both of which have survived without incedent.
 
W

William

Guest
stompah (Jul 06, 2001 08:53 a.m.):
Kingslayer (Jul 06, 2001 07:56 a.m.):
I don't see shims being detrimental. Even if it does make your CPU 1-2 degrees hotter. It's a $10.00 insurance policy for a $150 chip.

How is that detrimental?
How is adding 1-2 degrees an insurance policy? And against what?
I have taken my time placing my HSF assembly on both my celly and duron both of which have survived without incedent.

1-2C is not going to kill a CPU. I think if you can get one on without one, great. I have a fop 38 and it has an awful clip. I broke my duron with it. I have a shim now. Much rather haev a CPU running 1-2C hotter than a chip thats broke. I agree, most hsfs don't need a shim, but for some they are a great idea. and if you have a hsf that isn't anywhere close to level on the core, a shim will greatly improve the temps just by drasticly increasing the contact area.
 

cjtune

Member
Joined
Dec 18, 2000
William (Jul 06, 2001 10:05 a.m.):
stompah (Jul 06, 2001 08:53 a.m.):
Kingslayer (Jul 06, 2001 07:56 a.m.):
I don't see shims being detrimental. Even if it does make your CPU 1-2 degrees hotter. It's a $10.00 insurance policy for a $150 chip.

How is that detrimental?
How is adding 1-2 degrees an insurance policy? And against what?
I have taken my time placing my HSF assembly on both my celly and duron both of which have survived without incedent.

1-2C is not going to kill a CPU. I think if you can get one on without one, great. I have a fop 38 and it has an awful clip. I broke my duron with it. I have a shim now. Much rather haev a CPU running 1-2C hotter than a chip thats broke. I agree, most hsfs don't need a shim, but for some they are a great idea. and if you have a hsf that isn't anywhere close to level on the core, a shim will greatly improve the temps just by drasticly increasing the contact area.

...and how are you going to determine how much elevation (on a side) a shim is going to provide to level out the contact areas? This is really difficult and don't expect to get satisfactory results just by using a ruler and eyeball. This is why dialgauges and laser alignment tools with a precision of 1 to 10 microns (10-2 to 10-3 centimeters) are used to help calculated how much levelling an industrial drive needs. Just like we need the near-perfect mating of flat surfaces in heat transfer, near-perfect (ie. within stringent tolerences) alignment or drives to movers are needed to avoid damaging vibrations. So, in order to mate two flat surfaces, the challenge is not any slighter.
 
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h2k

Member
Joined
Dec 18, 2000
Location
Vancouver, Canada
This is turning into another debate over the effects of adding a shim. But nobody has really answered my question, which is how would i go about making one of these?
 

cjtune

Member
Joined
Dec 18, 2000
h2k (Jul 07, 2001 03:42 a.m.):
This is turning into another debate over the effects of adding a shim. But nobody has really answered my question, which is how would i go about making one of these?

Eh? oh yeah, sorry there. Alrighty, since you're the wiser about all this, you can make shims out of stiff, plate metal or plastic (of uniform thickness). You can try and cut squares out of these material using strong garden shears or a metal snipper. Cut out a 'U' kinda profile so that the CPU core can peek through the middle. IF you choose to use metal, make sure you tape or coat the side facing the CPU with non-conductive material and file off the burrs (sharp slivers) on the cut edges. Did I mention the shim material must be slightly thinner than the height of the core? Since there is no way you can make shims of EXACT height with the core you'll need to keep those 4 rubber pads on your duron or tbirb so that they act as springs to push up the shims to make-up for the difference. No pads? A P3 CPU? The get some thick, spongy double-sided tape from the hardware store -get the high-temperature variety if possible. Did I also mention I have never made shims for CPUs before? However, 'U' shims are placed under the foots of turbomachinery to align it. The 'U' shape is so that it can slip through the machine screws or bolts used to clamp a machine to the floor.

IF I were you, I'd rather not use shims. Why not try my previous suggestion?
 
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h2k

Member
Joined
Dec 18, 2000
Location
Vancouver, Canada
cjtune, I'm gonna try levelling out the base on the volcano II with some sandpaper later this week. I'm kinda worried though, because the clip is starting to feel easy, a little too easy when I attach it. Would this be caused by the sandpapering?
 

Mord-Sith

Member
Joined
Apr 4, 2001
How much lapping are you doing??? You shouldnt have to remove much material at all. Are you lapping on a glass/pollished marble surface? I dont mean to be negative but if youve messed up you HSF that bad it might be time to scrap it and count your losses.
 

CSaddict

Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2001
Location
CT, USA
Blake has a good point you must have really taken out some material. May be time to bury this one and start new.
 

Vryce

Member
Joined
May 27, 2001
and just to add my $.02

I use a shim..and I live in a hot cliamate with little room cooling...but I have a glaciator, and my case gets shifted frequently...

I would be TERRIFIED to move the case with the glaciator and no shim...i'm still uneasy with moving it..but I do rest easier..

What I'm trying to say is..get a shim..so if you bump your case, or do something inside it and accidentally hit your HSF, it won't rock and crack your proc...I really think that if 2C is enough to crash your system or fry something..your current setup isn't good enough..
 

cjtune

Member
Joined
Dec 18, 2000
Vryce (Jul 08, 2001 08:09 p.m.):
and just to add my $.02

I use a shim..and I live in a hot cliamate with little room cooling...but I have a glaciator, and my case gets shifted frequently...

I would be TERRIFIED to move the case with the glaciator and no shim...i'm still uneasy with moving it..but I do rest easier..

What I'm trying to say is..get a shim..so if you bump your case, or do something inside it and accidentally hit your HSF, it won't rock and crack your proc...I really think that if 2C is enough to crash your system or fry something..your current setup isn't good enough..

There's a reason why AMD specs a 500g max. weight limit for heatsinks...:) Ok, shims are useful in your case, when you lug it around often, but I still think using shims are a little overboard. One can easily make more of those little pads next to the CPU core but obtaining spongy double-sided tape and sticking it around the CPU alongside the old pads to help distribute forces from clamping and movement. Oh, BTW, h2k, either you have overstrained your clip or your Colcano is not several milimeters shorter. Either way, even if you get it even and upright again, the clamping may now be unsatisfactory. Time to look for a new HS or if you are still kinda atttached to your Volcano, you can try getting a cold plate but you'll have TWO interface resistances instead of one then.
 
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h2k

Member
Joined
Dec 18, 2000
Location
Vancouver, Canada
cjtune (Jul 09, 2001 02:47 a.m.):
Oh, BTW, h2k, either you have overstrained your clip or your Colcano is not several milimeters shorter. Either way, even if you get it even and upright again, the clamping may now be unsatisfactory. Time to look for a new HS or if you are still kinda atttached to your Volcano, you can try getting a cold plate but you'll have TWO interface resistances instead of one then.

I'll just have to wait until i get this thing levelled out. I don't think I've taken that much off the bottom though. I could've just gotten used to the clip on the thing, but i'm also clipping it on differently now, after i've read the instructions for arctic silver, I'm not putting it on flat and then clipping it -- now i'm tilting it one way, not touching the core and then putting it on the rest of the way and using the screwdriver thing to put it on the last lug.