FRONTPAGE Intel Z690 Chipset for 12th Gen Alder Lake Leaked

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Voodoo Rufus

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Sep 20, 2001
I'd like to see more DTX boards since there's unused space in a conventional ITX case under the GPU for beefier audio or more storage slots. The only one I know of is the Asus X570 and it's very pricey for what it is.

ITX has always been a game of compromises, but it still is amazing how good and how much they can pack into them now.
 

Woomack

Benching Team Leader
 
 
 
 
Joined
Jan 2, 2005
ASUS Crosshair VIII Impact just back from RMA. It looks like they did something, but I'm not sure if they actually fixed the main issue as there is no info except "repaired". The mobo was shutting down with 00 error (so can't see the CPU) when the 5900X was under higher load. ASUS support said that the mobo lost the warranty as I scratched the PCB. It was quite impossible as it was under the audio card (it's on M.2 socket), and I never removed it. Still, they made me pay only to try to fix it, so later they could take a look at the problem I reported. I will check it in the next few days, but I'm not really going to buy any ASUS anytime soon. The RMA took over 2 months (some guys saw the photos of the "damage" a while ago).
Anyway, this mobo looks great for DTX but is slightly worse for OC than the Strix B550-I Gaming, which is also 50% cheaper.
Sorry about the off-topic, I just shared something about the X570 DTX as it doesn't fit any other thread anyway ;)
 

PolRoger

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Joined
Jul 31, 2005
Gigabyte ITX (DDR4) i5-12600K combo... Open air cooling with a new LGA 1700 bracket/adapter for an old (4 heat pipe) Noctua NU12P cooler and Sycthe S-Flex (SFF21F) fans in push/pull config.

Idle at stock with XMP enabled:
i5 12600K stock with XMP enabled..PNG


And a brief RealBench stress test under load:
i5 12600K RealBench temps.PNG
 

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mackerel

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Joined
Mar 7, 2008
I didn't look the moment it went on sale but looking later on, I can't find DDR5 in stock anywhere. I kinda decided not to jump in at this point anyway, but was curious what DDR5 speeds and pricing would be like. CPU/mobos are widely available. Will it have to be carried by DDR4 in the short term?
 

PolRoger

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Joined
Jul 31, 2005
I wasn't really interested in DDR5 to start with (due to pricing) but I looked at DDR5 launch kits this morning at my two local Micro Centers and they were only showing a small supply of kits with the biggest volume SKU being base level Crucial 4800 kits as well as just a few mid-level G.Skill/Corsair kits. The mid-level kits sold out but there are still some Crucial kits available. If DDR5 kits become constrained by supply chain issues then I could see it impacting sales and early adoption.

My last Intel setups were Z170/Z270 Skylake/Kaby Lake so I decided to give the new Alder Lake a spin... I already had a spare kit of DDR4... Besides I want to wait until DDR5 get more established and the pricing comes down before going that route.
 

Woomack

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Jan 2, 2005
Crucial and Kingston DDR5 will be widely available in 1-2 weeks. Kingston Fury Beast 5200 can be ordered in some stores already for not much more than above average DDR4 series. I know that G.Skill has problems with availability and can't even provide samples for reviews (various sources) so I wouldn't expect anything from higher series anytime soon (like all that stuff in press releases in the last days). The same Patriot, ADATA and Team Group have delays and the first kits will be 4800 at not much better than JEDEC specs. I have no idea what about Corsair. Some less popular brands don't even have DDR5 in plans for this year.

I have confirmed delivery of 12900k+ Z690 Aorus Master for tomorrow but DDR5 is delayed so can't test it anyway. Probably will start with DDR4 as motherboards should arrive next week.
I was thinking about Z690I Aorus Ultra (DDR5) but decided I don't really need another ITX mobo and for the test rig, ATX/EATX seems somehow better. Once DDR5 will be mature enough then I will try to find something let's say more dedicated for pushing the RAM. Right now DDR4 seems like a better option because of not so significant performance difference but for sure no problems with RAM.
 

DaveB

Senior Member
 
Joined
Dec 18, 2000
At launch preorder Newegg had 16GB (2 x 8GB) Crucial DDR5-4800 for $116. The last I saw it was out of stock and up to $137.

I had ordered an i5-12600K/Asus Z690 Prime mATX (DDR4) combo but had to cancel when my wife went to the dentist which ended up being a $5,000 bill with another $2,000 plus in a couple of months. Good thing I'm happy with my cheap i5-10400/H410 combo! :thup:
 

Woomack

Benching Team Leader
 
 
 
 
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Jan 2, 2005
Lower 12th gen i5 are out but their prices are weird. I also don't trust Z690 mobos. Most of them have more or fewer problems and there are BIOS updates every couple of days. I assume that cheaper mobos are not getting enough updates as even these highest models have delayed support. My Gigabyte Z690 Master got 4 BIOS updates in the last month and it works not much better.
One good thing is that these lower CPUs run really well. 12600K runs cool compared to previous gens. I could run it without a significant throttling with Noctua NH-L9i. Even when it occurred then the clock was going down from 4.9GHz to 4.5GHz... not like in the 10/11 gen to 4.0 or less. This was at all auto settings but says something about the improvements.
 

EarthDog

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Dec 15, 2008
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Buckeyes!
Do they have more or fewer problems? You said both. In my experience, it's been worse than Z590... but more so with memory support. With the move to DDR5, I have to say I expected more growing pains on that front.

I'm curious, have you run into any other board outside of the Master that popped so many BIOS in a week or updates so many every couple of days?
 

Woomack

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Jan 2, 2005
Depends on the motherboard, more or fewer ;) Some have mainly RAM support issues, some have more problems ... eh... Hero? ;)
ASUS released 7+ BIOS versions for Strix Z690I Gaming but most weren't official and some already disappeared from the website. The latest BIOS causes random black screens while booting or entering BIOS. ASRock released 2 official BIOS versions for some of their mobos and so far there were fewer problems than with other brands but also not perfect.
I mentioned Samsung RAM support in another thread. It's not really important for most users but Samsung overclocks worse than on Z200, 300, 400 or 500 chipsets. Literally, I couldn't make my Samsung kits boot past 4000 on most motherboards, and only on ASRock Extreme, I could make it boot at 4400 but only at CL18 as CL17 couldn't boot regardless of voltages. The same RAM could make 4800+ on older Intel or AMD chipsets. On the other hand, Hynix runs at 4800+ without issues. Even on Biostar, it works at 4600+ manually and is stable at XMP 4600.

I finally checked the F7c BIOS for the Master and it improves RAM support but it's still let's say average. XMP for G.Skill 6000 works, 6400 works with OC profiles but the mobo has problems with training at 6400+ and setting it manually is pain ... like 1 minute+ training and then restarts in a loop or it resets settings. They improved training speed at lower clocks and it works fine with Micron DDR5 at one ratio higher than before or at lower timings at 5400 (CL38 instead of CL44). So I can say that if anyone wants a pretty good mobo for gaming then it's a good choice. If anyone wants it for overclocking then better get something else.
I had no chance to play with MSI Z690 mobos but I heard mixed comments. I would be glad to review one of their mobos but the same, I would be interested in checking EVGA too. Sadly I have no direct contact with both brands and won't spend more money on Z690.

Soon I start with B660 tests. Biostar arrived first ;)
 

Voodoo Rufus

Powder Junkie Moderator
 
 
 
Joined
Sep 20, 2001
Woomack, sell me on waiting for Z790/Raptor Lake. I got the itch to buy hardware I don't need again. Yes, I just answered my own question. :)
 

funnyperson1

Senior Member
 
Joined
Jun 16, 2001
Depends on the motherboard, more or fewer ;) Some have mainly RAM support issues, some have more problems ... eh... Hero? ;)
ASUS released 7+ BIOS versions for Strix Z690I Gaming but most weren't official and some already disappeared from the website. The latest BIOS causes random black screens while booting or entering BIOS. ASRock released 2 official BIOS versions for some of their mobos and so far there were fewer problems than with other brands but also not perfect.
I mentioned Samsung RAM support in another thread. It's not really important for most users but Samsung overclocks worse than on Z200, 300, 400 or 500 chipsets. Literally, I couldn't make my Samsung kits boot past 4000 on most motherboards, and only on ASRock Extreme, I could make it boot at 4400 but only at CL18 as CL17 couldn't boot regardless of voltages. The same RAM could make 4800+ on older Intel or AMD chipsets. On the other hand, Hynix runs at 4800+ without issues. Even on Biostar, it works at 4600+ manually and is stable at XMP 4600.

I finally checked the F7c BIOS for the Master and it improves RAM support but it's still let's say average. XMP for G.Skill 6000 works, 6400 works with OC profiles but the mobo has problems with training at 6400+ and setting it manually is pain ... like 1 minute+ training and then restarts in a loop or it resets settings. They improved training speed at lower clocks and it works fine with Micron DDR5 at one ratio higher than before or at lower timings at 5400 (CL38 instead of CL44). So I can say that if anyone wants a pretty good mobo for gaming then it's a good choice. If anyone wants it for overclocking then better get something else.
I had no chance to play with MSI Z690 mobos but I heard mixed comments. I would be glad to review one of their mobos but the same, I would be interested in checking EVGA too. Sadly I have no direct contact with both brands and won't spend more money on Z690.

Soon I start with B660 tests. Biostar arrived first ;)
I've had memory issues with my DDR4 ASRock Z690 Pro RS, but at least some of it is user error. I didn't do much research and bought it because it was the cheapest decently specced DDR4 Z690 at MicroCenter that I could bundle with the $300 12700K sale. I got 2x8GB of Ballistix 3200 with the combo for an $53, but I could not for the life of me get it stable at anything past 2666 even after flashing a bios that claimed to "Improve memory compatibility". Eventually I decided to just get something off the QVL and might as well go for 2x16GB since my last PC upgrade was 8 years ago. So I went back to Microcenter and painstakingly read the module stickers to cross-reference with the ASRock QVL and came home with some Corsair LPX 3200 (Samsung C Die) that was on the QVL list.

I *still* couldn't get it stable at 3200 or anything past 2666 really. So now I'm thinking that I have a bad mobo/CPU or something and I decide to double check the manual and see that I should have used slot A2/B2 instead of A1/B1 if only populating two slots. So finally the XMP3200 settings work, but it doesn't seem like running 3200 XMP sticks should be this picky in 2022, they claim this kit would work in a 4-slot configuration so whats the problem? I'm guessing it has to do with termination or something.

Still, I think ASRock basically optimized the BIOS to operate at XMP/JEDEC settings for QVL sticks in those specific slots because nothing in between 2666 and 3200 works. In the past with my SDR, DDR, DDR2, and DDR3 systems I could tweak the primary settings, frequency, and voltage and find a sweet spot before fine-tuning the rest. Here as soon as I move off the XMP frequency (like even to 3000 or 3400), the primary timings that were stable at XMP 3200 are no longer stable because ASRock now assigns seemingly random values to the secondary timings.

My next step is to record every secondary timing for the XMP setting and set those manually and try to OC from there. I think these C-die sticks should be good for 3600 based on what I've read.

I don't have the time these days to get heavy into the benchmarks, but I'm also curious to see whether this platform likes low-latency or high-bandwidth, but looking at the DDR4 vs DDR5 benchmarks it looks like bandwidth may win out in the general case.
 

Woomack

Benching Team Leader
 
 
 
 
Joined
Jan 2, 2005
Crucial RAM is known to be compatible with everything. If it doesn't work then the motherboard manufacturer failed BIOS. Really, they are not releasing products often but when they do, then usually it's tested well in various scenarios.
Samsung C/D can have problems with 3600. They are almost only in memory kits at something like 3200 CL16-20-20 or 3600 CL18-22-22 ... while they're not overclocking much above that.

Alder Lake, the same as Rocket Lake, likes high frequencies more than low latency. The only problem is that in both cases, it's limited by the memory controller. AL, in theory, should OC better but motherboards are not optimized so it looks worse ... except one scenario, where AL runs at 4000 Gear 1 and RL can't pass much above 3600 Gear 1.
Higher frequency = higher bandwidth and lower latency. Lower timings = mainly lower latency. In this case, the main difference makes the memory controller and its ratio (Gear mode). Since Gear 1 runs at a lower clock, then to set something better, you need to OC RAM much higher to be faster. Optimal is 4000 Gear 1, or 4800+ Gear 2. So far, I could set 5200+ Gear 2 on RL (Z590) but I couldn't even pass 4400+ Gear 2 on AL (Z690) so I can't directly compare that on Z690 motherboards.
 

funnyperson1

Senior Member
 
Joined
Jun 16, 2001
Thanks for the info Woomack. I was really shocked when the memory didn't just work at it's advertised speeds, I've never looked at compatibility charts for memory before, just bought a kit from Crucial or Corsair and assumed it would work and it always did. Unfortunately I returned the memory before realizing that I was installing them in the "wrong" slots, it's possible that those Ballistix sticks would have run just fine in A2/B2.

The C-Die RAM is now running stable at 3466 18-20-20, but 3600 20-20-20 was a no go. I'll probably try 3600 18-22-22 next.
 

funnyperson1

Senior Member
 
Joined
Jun 16, 2001
So far 3733 at 19-21-21 seems happy, but 3800 with those same timings gives me errors in OCCT/SSE. I think I'm close to the limit of what this kit can do, but hopefully I can tighten things a bit at 3733 or loosen a bit and gain stability. I haven't played with VCCSA/VIO yet either, maybe that might help a bit.
 

Woomack

Benching Team Leader
 
 
 
 
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Jan 2, 2005
Auto SA/IO is enough up to 4000+ and usually it's even too high. I guess it will need more relaxed timings and higher voltages to run higher. My last Samsung C kit wasn't scaling well above 1.45V and as I remember, I could set 3733 CL17-22-22 max. At 3800 it wasn't even booting. The best performance was at 3600 and tighter timings.