Intermittent power issue

[T-Light]

Hello.
I've had my current Overclockers machine for about three years, never had an issue.
A week ago Sunday, I went to switch on the machine, nothing, no fans, lights or noise. It was as if the machine had been unplugged. I thought of the cheapest option first and ordered some new fuses. With a new fuse in the plug I tested the machine in a different socket. It sprang back to life and was fine all week until yesterday when the same thing happened. No power.
Today I've taken the machine apart and given it a thorough clean, there was a lot of dust in the intake of the PSU. Plugged it in (without anything attached) and it sprang to life. I powered it down and took it to my desk. Plugged it in...nothing.

There's no signs of a dead power supply unit (no burn marks, ozone smell etc). Could this be as simple as a faulty power cable or is it more likely a faulty PSU?

If it's the power cable (rated at 10 amps) can I replace it with a 13 amp cable (all that's available locally) or would that be a bad idea?

Thanks.
Brent.

 

[EarthDog]

I don't see the point of using a more capable power cord... that isn't the issue (the cord may be bad - doubtful - but it's capacity isn't).

How about listing system specifications, specifically the brand, model, and age of your power supply? But if it's happening after cleaning and in different plugs, that PSU may be going bad.

 

[don256us]

Agreed with the above. Please list your computer stats so that we can better fine tune solutions for you. Based on what you've posted, I'm asking what is the age, ratings and make/model of your power supply. Combined with a full list of the specs for your computer that may narrow down the cause of your issue.

 

[T-Light]

I don't see the point of using a more capable power cord... that isn't the issue (the cord may be bad - doubtful - but it's capacity isn't).

How about listing system specifications, specifically the brand, model, and age of your power supply? But if it's happening after cleaning and in different plugs, that PSU may be going bad.

Sorry guys, I'm running on 2 1/2 hours sleep here.
The PSU is a Kolink Core ATX KL-C600
Processor I5
Memory 2x Cosair 8Gb
3 standard HD's 7Tb + SSD 250 Gb
Motherboard - Not sure without going back into the case
Edit - Gfx card, Liquid cooled Aurus nVidia 1080
Windows 10.

I haven't upgraded or added anything to this machine in at least two years.
The machine itself including all parts (except two HD's) will be around three to four years old.

Details visible on the power supply...
DC Output +3.3v +5v +12v -12v +5vsb
Max Current 18A 15A 40A 0.3A 2.5A
Max Power 100W 480W 3.6W 12.5W
Rec 24/7 power 500W Continuous power
Total Power 600W (rated max output)

 

[EarthDog]

I5...........................what? There are generations of i5 processors.

As far as the PSU, I've never heard of that brand. I'm not sure who builds it, but, on the surface it screams trash....

....it's rated for 600W on the label, yet can only output 500W continuous? Not only that, it has 40A on the 12V and that's 480W... so really, it's a 480W PSU when it's all said and done.

I don't know if that's the problem, but I'd get a new, QUALITY power supply, regardless.... you're really on the edge already trying to power that system on a questionable quality PSU and the wattage being so low for the system.

 

[T-Light]

Thanks EarthDog. I couldn't tell you which I5 is in it without booting it, and...
2 1/2 hours sleep hasn't helped as I thought I was writing into the forum of overclockers.co.uk, turns out that isn't the case.
Kolink is one of the brands they sell, they range from budget to around the same price as Corsair's/MSI etc.
I agree with your take on this particular PSU, it does seem underpowered for the system.

 

[Zerileous]

Here are some suggestions:
https://www.overclockers.co.uk/cors...atx-power-supply-cp-9020248-uk-ca-26z-cs.html
https://www.overclockers.co.uk/seas...plus-gold-modular-power-supply-ca-07f-ss.html
https://www.overclockers.co.uk/cors...lar-power-supply-cp-9020194-uk-ca-24r-cs.html

The RM series seem to be a slight downgrade from the RMx, so if you have the budget then bump up to the RMx https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/corsair-rm750-power-supply,6172.html. I think 650 would be enough but I can't be sure without more detailed specs. 750w would support more GPUs if you upgraded in the future, and 850w is enough to run any GPU out right now. It is important to differentiate wattage and quality, so I somewhat shy away from recommending a specific wattage, as buying a lower rated high quality PSU is much better than a high rated low quality PSU. You can see this as ED explained above, your 600W PSU is actually only a 480W PSU .

If you must use a lower budget, this is a 10 year old design but I believe it was high quality for the time it was made: https://www.kitguru.net/blog/2013/10/01/seasonic-g-series-650w-power-supply-review/

https://www.overclockers.co.uk/seasonic-g12-gc-650-650w-80-gold-power-supply-ca-07m-ss.html

How many 8 pin PCIe connectors does your GPU use? All of these should be fine, but it's important to make sure

 

[EarthDog]

I agree with your take on this particular PSU, it does seem underpowered for the system.

It's not, really, it just seems to be of low quality. An ACTUAL and QUALITY 600W unit would be plenty for the 'i5' and a GTX 1080. That said, I'd look at a high quality 750W unit like Zerileous suggested above. This way, when you upgrade to more powerful components, you already have the headroom.

 

[T-Light]

Thank you Zerileous, they do look like good options.
The GPU is using two 8pin connectors. They look to be seated properly, is there anything I should look for?

Post magically merged: Feb 6, 2023

It's not, really, it just seems to be of low quality. An ACTUAL and QUALITY 600W unit would be plenty for the 'i5' and a GTX 1080. That said, I'd look at a high quality 750W unit like Zerileous suggested above. This way, when you upgrade to more powerful components, you already have the headroom.

Right you are.

 

[Zerileous]

Just to make sure that the new PSU has enough 8 pin connectors, ideally on independent cables (so if one cable has 2 connectors, only use the one closes to the PSU rather than daisy chaining both). I'm not sure if any third parties used more connectors on the 1080s or if that was later on, so that's why I asked.

I think we can all agree that the PSU should be replaced, but I do want to clarify that won't rule out other problems. I would suggest you verify that after moving it to the other location (where it worked previously) that it indeed still won't work and see if the fuse you replaced is still intact.

I should also note that while this is an international community, many of us are from the US, so at least for myself I'm not very familiar with the electrical systems of the UK or other countries. I believe your system should be a 240v which would be consistent with a max draw of 2-3 amps (for a 600W PSU). You definitely should not be blowing a 10 amp fuse, which leads me to think something has gone amiss in the PSU or with the wiring of your house. In the US we have circuit breakers that are limited to a designated number of amps, so if more amps than the breaker allows are drawn, then the breaker trips. I believe the UK uses a similar system, but also places fuses in plugs and also has a ground fault circuit interrupt (GFCI) system built into the breaker itself, whereas in the US the ground fault circuit interrupt is only in certain receptacles near water sources.

Either way I would suggest you double check the outlets and the electrical panel to see if everything is in order. If you find that it is, then replace the PSU, and you might find that some hardware was damaged or other problems as well in the PSU failing.

 

[don256us]

ED. I had to look up the PSU myself because I'm in the same boat. It's an EU brand and this model is 80+ (not copper, gold, silver, etc). I think that Zerileous is on target, I'm reading his response as I type this so I'll bow out. The issue screems PSU and it's looking like that's coming to bare.

 

[EarthDog]

When you see stuff like that from the label, you don't have to dig too far to find the gory details!

I don't know if that's the problem either, but........where I would look first outside of perhaps the obvious of reseating items/checking contacts and tightening screws, etc.

 

[T-Light]

Update after grabbing sleep.

The thought struck me the only reason I believed the fuses were blowing was it originally worked after replacing the fuse. What if the fuses were fine and the random power failures were mysteriously coincidental?
I'd thrown the original fuse out from over a week ago, but I still had the 'blown' fuses from this Sunday afternoon. I checked all of them with the constant setting on a multimeter. All of them passed, none had failed. I even put one of them back in the plug and placed it into one of the sockets it had failed in before and hey presto, the machine sprang to life. I also took the suggestion that a 3 amp fuse should be fine. I replaced the 10 amp with the 3 amp and tried it...dead machine. With the random power failure we can expect that of course. I took the 3amp fuse out and tested it again with the multimeter. Still alive, it hadn't blown.

On the plus side, at least whatever is going wrong doesn't seem disastrous enough to blow fuses (Sorry for leading you all up the garden path).

I also should clarify something I didn't explain well in my sleep deprived state. If the machine gets power, it stays on, it doesn't go flakey after a few minutes or hours and power off. When it's on it's fine, it says on. It's just getting it on that's the issue.

In relation to Zerileous's post above regarding where the machine has been plugged in and does it work/fail in those places if tested again.
It's been plugged into four sockets...

Old surge protector for my desk
Worked for years up to and including the Sunday morning of January 29th. Failed when switching on the machine in the afternoon (First failure). Was discarded after failing the following day after checking the machine worked with a new fuse in a different socket. (Alternative study socket - see below). The surge protector may well be fine although I probably shouldn't have kept it for as long as I have.

New surge protector extension for my desk.
Worked Tuesday through Sunday. Failed on power up Sunday afternoon (Exactly one week after the original failure). Haven't checked since (awkward rethreading the power chord back through the desk, I'll do it once it's fixed). It still powers everything else that's attached to it (Monitors, speakers etc).

Alternative socket in the study (no surge protector).
Failed Sunday 29th (checking whether my old surge protector was faulty). Worked a week ago Monday with a new fuse (see above). Failed several times this Sunday. Failed yesterday after cleaning. Worked today. Failed today when tested with 3 amp fuse (see above).

Socket at the Kitchen table (no surge protector).
Worked after cleaning the machine. Failed after testing again an hour or so later.

Should also say that I've had lots of other appliances plugged into these sockets both before, during and since. All are working fine.

Zerileous -

In the US we have circuit breakers that are limited to a designated number of amps, so if more amps than the breaker allows are drawn, then the breaker trips

Same here. This property has several breakers for upstairs and downstairs lights, upstairs and downstairs sockets, separate breakers for high amp things such as the cooker and a master breaker.
None of the breakers have tripped because of the PC, in fact the last time a breaker tripped was several months ago (a halogen bulb popped in the kitchen I think).

There was another weird occurrence regarding electrical appliances in the house on Sunday the 29th though. Whether it's related or not I have no idea.
I'd passed the bedroom on the morning on the way to the study (next room along). My partners bedside light was on. I didn't think anything more about it and switched it off. I asked her about it over lunch and she said it wasn't her.
After lunch I went back up, the light was back on! Both her and the cat were still downstairs. These are touch sensitive lights, so, it's a tad weird. Actually if you want to go super spooky the cat went mental the previous Wednesday, about 4:30am. He was in the hall between the study and the bedroom, I switched the bedside lamp on and he stuck his head round the door, glaring around looking for what had maybe attacked him?

It was an odd few days, wasn't sure if I need a PC specialist or an exorcist.

 

[Zerileous]

It appears you have a ghost

My first thought now that you describe this further is to make sure the power button is working and fully plugged in. Does your machine have RGB or other lighting that comes on at standby? i.e. when connected to power but not powered on? If you reset the power supply on-off rocker switch does that do anything?

I have a problem where shutting down my PC or crashing requires me to toggle the PSU switch off, wait a few seconds, then go back on before I can get it to respond to the power button. I think this is due to a BIOS bug off all things, because it started when I flashed BIOS to run the 3700x. It's annoying but knowing how to reproduce and circumvent it is simple enough. It has been like this for years now.

I guess my point is the best thing to do is to try to reproduce it and narrow down to what exactly is causing the problem. It seems like unplugging it and plugging it back in seems to make it work sometimes. It doesn't necessarily seem to be unique to a specific outlet though.

 

[don256us]

It appears you have a ghost

Living impaired please.

 

[T-Light]

Zerileous -

My first thought now that you describe this further is to make sure the power button is working and fully plugged in.

I think I'd need to fully disassemble the case to get to the switch, it's an awkward design, metal chassis, metal and Perspex sides, plastic top, and maybe a double layer plastic front. They'd all have to come off to get to the switch. The switch doesn't feel any different though. It doesn't feel weak, brittle or spongy, it's action and the audible 'click' is the same as its always been. Also, the machine doesn't normally get moved, it's sandwiched between my desk and a filing cabinet so it doesn't get knocked. It would be weird if something has jostled itself loose. (Unless of course we do have a ghost ). It is something I want to check, although it might be the weekend before I get the time.

Does your machine have RGB or other lighting that comes on at standby? i.e. when connected to power but not powered on? If you reset the power supply on-off rocker switch does that do anything?

It does have RGB lighting but it doesn't come on in standby. I did notice a small orange light hidden behind some components yesterday when I had the side off, it's not normally visible with the side on. The next time it decides to power up I'll see if it operates in standby mode. The PSU doesn't have a switch sadly.

I have a problem where shutting down my PC or crashing requires me to toggle the PSU switch off, wait a few seconds, then go back on before I can get it to respond to the power button. I think this is due to a BIOS bug off all things, because it started when I flashed BIOS to run the 3700x. It's annoying but knowing how to reproduce and circumvent it is simple enough. It has been like this for years now.

I guess my point is the best thing to do is to try to reproduce it and narrow down to what exactly is causing the problem. It seems like unplugging it and plugging it back in seems to make it work sometimes.

Could it be the bios battery? It has been on my mind but I've read different reports on this, some say yes some say no.
I'll be getting a 3 amp lead tomorrow to rule out a possible lead failure, not sure if there's anywhere locally that sells bios batteries, I'll check and report back.
Thanks for your time Zerilous.