Is it getting worse for system builders?

[hovercast]

I built my entire system for $485 (including shipping), nearly 6 months ago. I'd like to see a computer with the same hardware in a pre-built system for less than that at the time. Although, by now I'm sure the prices on all components I have are a bit cheaper, it's probably not too much off and a pre-built would probably still cost more even now.

So as I see it, whether you're buying big or small it's better to build yourself.

But I didn't say it wasn't cheaper to build it your self. I just said said it wasn't as profitable. (as it used to be in 08)

hmmm try building this hp pavilion

edit: I think i got the right model now http://www.shopping.hp.com/webapp/s...psg/desktops/Everyday_computing/p6350z_series

 

[hovercast]

hmmm my link seem to go to a different computer i was looking at an amd model

you know what I was just adding up numbers in my calc and I think you could get it cheaper from newegg but you would have to get some very questionable brands specially when it comes to low end power supplys. I dunno I just see so many bad reviews on those...
I dunno to me a lot of the stuff in the low end systems are very questionable.
I think I better go to sleep lol I dont even know what im talking about anymore lol

 

[Dusnoetos]

For me most of the fun is putting the computer together.

While it is unlikely that I would buy a "new" prebuilt system - if I got one as a gift I doubt I would complain.

Now I am guilty of buying used prebuilt systems (from businesses that have upgraded) . Most of the time they are for Friends and family that really don't need a fancy setup.

 

[vgta88]

I tried looking up where to get intel processors in bulk or something like that wholesale?... anyways i came across something that asked me for quantity.(might not be for cpus) I noticed for anyone buying quantities of 1000 gets around a 15-30% discount from MSRP(discounts were scaling with how much you brought). it was something along those lines. Anything you buy retail will have this mark up and the profit margins are larger for big companies like hp because they can mass produce.

Theres more freedom you get from not going oem. For starters if your hdd fails it's warranty is not somehow tied to the computer. You are free to clean the computer yourself without voiding warranties. You get better quality parts. want to upgrade? too bad warranty void. (ram and psu and hdd usually have either lifetime, 3/5 year or 3 year for each in that order).

These large oem's usually stay in business and make profit off the fact that most computer users don't know anything about maintenance and end up messing up their computers operating systems or hardware and then go straight back for some more oem. Its not that bad if people back stuff up and don't care but it makes it harder to build a more economical system.

It is harder to price match vs a very large oem. You might want to save all your shopping for major sales like during holidays.

 

[DocClock aka MadClocker]

I think your still better building it yourself. Ewiz.com has this system builder thing though. The prices aren't that bad for those that can't build it yourself.

http://www.ewiz.com/system_index.php

:begin rant:
Ewiz has not impressed me at all...my boss just gave me a Raidmax case which arrived today from Ewiz damaged...and it took two weeks for delivery...and my boss dosn't want to waste his time trying to get Ewiz to replace it, so he just gave it to me, and will probably order one from the egg.

Ewiz had a problem with the P.O. box instead of an address for the credit card, but made no attempt to call or correct the issue...we had to call and find out why we did not have a tracking number, and had to get on a three way conference call just to verify the card....Security is nice, but this is aproaching ridiculous.
The front cover is cracked, and has 9 broken standoffs, and some idiot hotglued all the bay covers in place.
I do realize that Ewiz is not responsible for damages during shipping, but gluing the drive bay covers? WTF! Couldn't they just put them in a plastic bag and tape it to the inside of the case like all the case screws?
:end rant:

Back on topic: The one caveat that has not been mentioned, is that when you build your own...You are tech support, so you have to rely on your internet skills to get drivers and software updates.

Edit: One other thing...of all the parts that you can skimp on, the only part that I will never compromise on is the power supply, simply because with a well built supply that has good filtering, even marginal parts like unreliable capacitors will last longer, because when you have good clean power, your components don't have to struggle to work.

If you plan on building computers for money, it helps to have a retail license and with that you can create a merchant account with an etailer like newegg which will significantly reduce your overhead...it helps to have more than one merchant to go to, that way you can say "well so & so has it for xx less" and if not pushed too far, that can reduce the overhead also,

 

[Dusnoetos]

Back on topic: The one caveat that has not been mentioned, is that when you build your own...You are tech support, so you have to rely on your internet skills to get drivers and software updates.

That is a valid point....Man If I had a dollar for every hour i have spent looking for the correct drivers and what not I could afford a major upgrade.

 

[vgta88]

look for a hardware id string in device manager and then google for drivers. the chipset drivers are easy enough to get. unless we talking linux.

 

[polarys425]

I actually disagree, I think owning a prebuilt is a must at first, at least it was for me. Id rather have made it myself, but prebuilts aren't all bad. When I bought my first and last HP Pavillion bout maybe 6yrs ago? Not sure. Its specs are athlon xp 2400+ 512ram geforce 4 mx440. I would never buy a prebuilt again unless it was a laptop. .....But I had to start somewhere, there's this magical nirvana called the internet and the flying unicorns were calling me to ride that rainbow of knowledge so I could partake in the vast unifying mind, where all is one. Gaining that knowledge, I too could one day become a god of technology with my evil computer minion creation to do my bidding to slaughter all those flying unicorns so that I alone would have that knowledge.


On another note I saw a core i7 machine prebuilt on slickdeals.net for like 460ish something.

To that i disagree. I built my very first computer, and every one since. To each their own however, and their abilities. To those who dont know where to start, try a good mom-n-pop shop. Yeah, it'll cost ya more, as they cant beat newegg on price, but the knowledge and help you'll get from a good shop is worth the extra cost.

 

[Ben333]

Oh man, I've been to a couple little shops. Met some cocky people, charging big money, and sound like they don't know too much. Stick to buying online, or at a microcenter or something. I'm sure there are good small shops out there, probably some of our members work in computer places, just speaking from my experience though.

 

[J-Sap]

I think people are missing the point of the thread - it used to always be a lot cheaper to custom build a PC with decent quality parts even if you didn't compare to the bargain basement prebuilts which are impossible to match on price. The difference is not so huge any more.

Sadly I have to agree. Although the quality you get from building your own system is still much better then what HP or Dell can give you for the price. You get the choice of picking which brand components you use and chipsets, ect.

I will still build my own PC because while the price difference may be evaporating the quality difference and choice is still big enough for me.

 

[polarys425]

Oh man, I've been to a couple little shops. Met some cocky people, charging big money, and sound like they don't know too much. Stick to buying online, or at a microcenter or something. I'm sure there are good small shops out there, probably some of our members work in computer places, just speaking from my experience though.

Thats why i said good. And it helps to build a relationship, dont just walk in and think it'll happen overnight. I'm not forthcoming with lots of free info for people i've never seen before. Little guys dont stay in business by giving endless free info. Most people have no idea what it takes to stay in business, and think nothing of calling, or walking in with 15 questions, and no intention of bring their comp in for repair. They want free answers, and dont think about the fact that the answer givers have to eat too. On the flip side, people that i deal with all time (repairs), buy from us, i have no problem when they call needing some free help for something simple.

The worst is when people come in wanting advice on what to buy, and then go buy all their crap online. And the people who go buy it all online, and then bring it all in when they cant get it to work, or want you to test parts for them, and get offended that your gonna charge them to test for them.

 

[madhatter256]

Thats why i said good. And it helps to build a relationship, dont just walk in and think it'll happen overnight. I'm not forthcoming with lots of free info for people i've never seen before. Little guys dont stay in business by giving endless free info. Most people have no idea what it takes to stay in business, and think nothing of calling, or walking in with 15 questions, and no intention of bring their comp in for repair. They want free answers, and dont think about the fact that the answer givers have to eat too. On the flip side, people that i deal with all time (repairs), buy from us, i have no problem when they call needing some free help for something simple.

The worst is when people come in wanting advice on what to buy, and then go buy all their crap online. And the people who go buy it all online, and then bring it all in when they cant get it to work, or want you to test parts for them, and get offended that your gonna charge them to test for them.

we get that a lot, but the trick is to trick them into coming back to buy or leave the system for repair in order to charge them.

 

[Bobnova]

Why are they using three sticks of ram on a 1156 system?

 

[polarys425]

we get that a lot, but the trick is to trick them into coming back to buy or leave the system for repair in order to charge them.

too many times they call and have no intent to bring it in. Or they walk in to ask questions, and when you tell them you'd have to look at it, they give a list of reasons why they cant bring it in, or say they might bring it in, and then never do. Too much entitlement mentality i guess.

I once had a woman come in to ask if i could tell her how to fix her comp because she was unemployed, and couldnt afford to pay to fix it. But then commented on how she just signed up for high-speed internet. Needless say i really wanted to throw her thru the door.

Wondering off topic....

But yeah, always better to build than buy a prebuilt big box, low bid parts piece-o-crap.

 

[UnseenMenace]

I've not built much in the past three years other than specific devices such as HTPC's for this very reason. I can't even remember the last normal pc I built from scratch.
I used to build my own systems because of price and performance, I also used to overclock these systems because the software placed demands on the hardware which made it slow, I could experience this, it did not take benchmarks to tell me I was faster
I don't even fix for people anymore because its more grief than money in most cases

For me personally none of this is required these days and average PC does what I require as I do not play games. I simply buy pre-built these days DellXPS and Alienware desktops and laptops.

 

[vgta88]

Thats why i said good. And it helps to build a relationship, dont just walk in and think it'll happen overnight. I'm not forthcoming with lots of free info for people i've never seen before. Little guys dont stay in business by giving endless free info. Most people have no idea what it takes to stay in business, and think nothing of calling, or walking in with 15 questions, and no intention of bring their comp in for repair. They want free answers, and dont think about the fact that the answer givers have to eat too. On the flip side, people that i deal with all time (repairs), buy from us, i have no problem when they call needing some free help for something simple.

The worst is when people come in wanting advice on what to buy, and then go buy all their crap online. And the people who go buy it all online, and then bring it all in when they cant get it to work, or want you to test parts for them, and get offended that your gonna charge them to test for them.

Yeah I realize this, It's hard to stay in business. When I see someone buying a 20 dollar power supply for a pentium 2 system or whatever I don't even suggest corsair if the store is selling it for $120 with no rebate(450vx cough cough tigerdirect). I think the crappy psu would probably be marginal and if it fries, a new system would probably benefit the economy at not a great loss. (I kind of have to bite my tongue in this situation because deep down, just a nice guy.)

What polarys describes is the same for cars too. The knowledge to maintain and do a little of the work yourself will save you a lot in labor and possible repairs but businesses need that especially the smaller shops. Some people charge double or more what you can get things for like a rear window replacement. All you need is a window, generic replacement weather stripping, make sure it's clean (+get rid of old chalk or provide a clean surface) and a type of urethane chalk to adhere it to the car and secure with tape (to cure). Found a small shop that did it for a reasonable price just because the time it would take to find some weather stripping and chalk was not available.

Also what people probably don't know is If you change your oil more frequently, at least in an old car, you get better gas mileage. Probably more than what the new oil and filter costs. Maybe even if serviced by a mechanic instead of yourself. (I am against more energy usage and way too high oil prices and what that does to the economy with no substitute)

My dad understands the need to eat part and stay in business concept. There are 2 mechanic shops that my dad tries to keep a good relationship with, They offer free repairs for little things sometimes and very cheap prices but my dad refuses for the cheaper one. Sometimes the bigger one will chop us by changing our oil for no reason and when I need anti freeze they will price match so I get it from them instead when they get greedy for an extra $50 (oil+change labor+ anti freeze) on top of repairs. That's what the other mechanic shop is for, they are nicer.

Sometimes 2nd hand parts are much cheaper than what the mechanic will sell to you for but that's another story.

 

[Marshmallow64]

I think the savings are still there when building your own pc. The cost margin isnt that much but the quality of parts you get when building your own pc are way better. When you buy a dell, the psu and ram are usually pretty generic.

Also each individual part usually has its own warranty usually ranging from 1-5 years.

 

[benbaked]

The worst is when people come in wanting advice on what to buy, and then go buy all their crap online. And the people who go buy it all online, and then bring it all in when they cant get it to work, or want you to test parts for them, and get offended that your gonna charge them to test for them.

Oh man I can sympathize with that. I finally had to tell a coworker of mine that I refuse to work on his and his family's computers anymore because it was always the same thing, viruses, and he never wanted to pay me a dime. He always wanted to trade me old hardware for the work, or plain just expected the work for free. I "fired" him as a customer of mine.

 

[bigben6]

I think your still better building it yourself. Ewiz.com has this system builder thing though. The prices aren't that bad for those that can't build it yourself.

http://www.ewiz.com/system_index.php

I only saved 26 bucks over their prices... I think i got a FEW options better, but not a TON better, worth it in my opinion, but man thats a great site, have you had any real experience besides the price calculator? Meaning have you worked with their stuff, is it build right, run well, no issues?

 

[rumbl3]

Oh man I can sympathize with that. I finally had to tell a coworker of mine that I refuse to work on his and his family's computers anymore because it was always the same thing, viruses, and he never wanted to pay me a dime. He always wanted to trade me old hardware for the work, or plain just expected the work for free. I "fired" him as a customer of mine.

Dude same thing here. At work I got this rep as the computer guy. Because I built a buddy of mine a machine. I told him it was free of charge first time because it was his first gaming pc.

I found myself after like 3 years constantly doing work for him and his two teenage sons fixing computers. Half the time it was dumb crap like i'd tell them stay off limewire. Did they ever listen no. I'd get rid of a virus etc and with in a day sometimes they'd be back at it again. There high powered gaming rigs would fry because it would look like a fur coat inside the machine. Then get mad at me sort of because i refuse to sit and test all the parts to see whats good and whats bad so i can then go with them to micro center to buy parts and then fix it for them.

It was priceless the day i called it quits on the free work. I mean guys my buddy and all but it was priceless. He killed his 2nd machine with another "fur coat" inside of it. So i was nice looked at his machine told him he could buy me lunch at taco bell i'd fix it. He went to micro center got a new video card. He was supposed to bring lunch to my house. he shows up no lunch tells me hes broke. I said guess you'll be waiting till pay day then to play no lunch no computer.

Then after that when he comes to me i tell him 50 bucks or no work. Now he bugs another guy that works there to do free work ROFL.

As for prebuilts EWWWWWWW. I had one prebuilt my first acer 333mhz machine that i put a voodoo 2 in. I don't care if prebuilt super gaming machine was 500 bucks and a low end build it yourself was 1,500. I would save and spend the extra period. You can say they have the same specs ROFL. The motherboards in them pieces of junk kill the "would be" performance of that machine IMO. So many times i've seen these xps, or just higher end dell with a video card thrown in, and somehow my cheapo build machines keep up with something way over my specs or just destroy it. My rig here i built for $412 total shipped from the egg during i think last march maybe? Oc'ed and bleeding i can run bad company 2 full blast, eat your heart out dell (btw that was my 18.5 inch wide screen acer lcd included )