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Is it time for a platform upgrade from Z97/4790K?

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Tech Tweaker

Member
Joined
Dec 14, 2010
Think I may have the upgrader's itch again.

I built my current main PC in 2015 (with various updates and upgrades over the years), and feel like I'm leaving some potential performance on the table (for my GPU specifically) by running hardware from four (or five) generations back. I think the older CPU and motherboard architecture may be holding back or bottle-necking the GPU. Main reason for this concern is I swapped from GTX 1070 to a GTX 1080 and didn't really see much performance gain at all, barely noticeable. Inverse was also true, going from a 1080 to a 1070 I didn't see much of a performance loss at 1080p with the same settings in-game when I was playing Battlefield V.

Current config:
CPU: Intel Core i7 4790K (started with a 4690K, but upgraded it)
Motherboard: ASRock Z97 Extreme6
RAM 2x 8GB G.SKILL Ripjaws X 1866MHz
SSD: Samsung 850 Evo 500GB
HDD: WD Caviar Black 1TB (running low on space, 285GB left)
Cooler: Corsair H100i GTX/V2 (seller said it was a V2, but Link software says it's a GTX? :shrug:) I had an H110i in it before, but that didn't play well with the RMi series power supply and caused the board to stop reading the PSU if both were plugged in to the board via USB (and CPUID HWMonitor stopped working if both were plugged in as well. Another weird thing was that the AIO's fans did this thing where they would ramp up and down in fan speed before going to max speed and staying there IIRC.).
PSU: Corsair RM650i
Case: Corsair 750D

I've done some research, looks like an i5 6600K would be a downgrade of between -8% to -20%, i7 6700K would be a sidegrade or very slight performance upgrade of ~2-5%. Core i5 7600K would be a slight upgrade or large downgrade (depending upon what site you believe), maybe on the order of 5-7% more performance (or 20% less) which for the upgrade cost of $400+ probably wouldn't seem to be worth it. Core i7 7700K looking like a 10-21% performance upgrade, but $500-550+ for said upgrade. Core i5 8600K between 1-20% upgrade for $500+.

Looked at X99 briefly before realizing the platform was nearly as old as my Z97 setup. Core i7 5820K is between -1% to +10%, i7 5930K is a 3-19% upgrade for probably $350-450+. Core i7 6800K 2-24% upgrade (unknown upgrade cost, haven't checked), i7 6850K 10-29% upgrade (unknown upgrade cost, haven't checked).
 

DaveB

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 18, 2000
I've done some research, looks like an i5 6600K would be a downgrade of between -8% to -20%, i7 6700K would be a sidegrade or very slight performance upgrade of ~2-5%. Core i5 7600K would be a slight upgrade or large downgrade (depending upon what site you believe), maybe on the order of 5-7% more performance (or 20% less) which for the upgrade cost of $400+ probably wouldn't seem to be worth it. Core i7 7700K looking like a 10-21% performance upgrade, but $500-550+ for said upgrade. Core i5 8600K between 1-20% upgrade for $500+.

Looked at X99 briefly before realizing the platform was nearly as old as my Z97 setup. Core i7 5820K is between -1% to +10%, i7 5930K is a 3-19% upgrade for probably $350-450+. Core i7 6800K 2-24% upgrade (unknown upgrade cost, haven't checked), i7 6850K 10-29% upgrade (unknown upgrade cost, haven't checked).


Why aren't you looking at the 6C/12T i7-8700K? Or, if you have the cash, the ultimate at this point is the 8C/16T i7-9900K. I don't know why you'd be looking at any i5 as an upgrade or older platforms like Skylake or Kaby Lake at this point.
 

wingman99

Member
Joined
Dec 10, 2003
I would go for i7 8700k. I went from GTX 1070 to RTX 2070 and had a noticeable gain in FPS 140-150 1080p with a 6 core i5 8600k.
 
OP
Tech Tweaker

Tech Tweaker

Member
Joined
Dec 14, 2010
Why aren't you looking at the 6C/12T i7-8700K? Or, if you have the cash, the ultimate at this point is the 8C/16T i7-9900K. I don't know why you'd be looking at any i5 as an upgrade or older platforms like Skylake or Kaby Lake at this point.

I have an unused Z270 motherboard sitting new in its box that I bought last September. One of those things where it was a good deal at the time, but I couldn't afford a good CPU to pair it with when I bought it, so it just sort of sat around.

Sort of like a P67 board I bought like six years ago, then before I knew it Z77 was out and I still couldn't afford the nice shiny 2500K or 2600K I would have liked to put into the P67 board and the industry had moved on to the 3500 and 3700 i5's and i7's (ironically, I much later ended up owning a 2500K, 2600K, and 3770K along with Z77 and Z68 motherboards). I seem to have this habit of buying components I can't afford the other components to pair with at the time, but buy because they're a good deal at the time.:rolleyes:

And I'm somewhat careful with my money. :chair::D I don't necessarily like to pay more for performance I don't need or won't be able to utilize for what I use my PC to do. Also, I'm never an early-adopter of next-gen or new-release hardware. I don't like to be a beta-tester for the companies and wait for them to come up with patches, or hardware or software revisions to fix problems. Such as I have revision 1.0 of board X and it has some terrible problem, and revision 2.0 of board X that launched Y number of months later fixed this problem, but I'd already built my PC before this launch happened or was even announced and don't want to completely tear-down the PC to swap out to a different board.

Did I not list the 8700K? Strange, I have it here in my research tabs and know I ran some performance comparison numbers on it... Main thing holding me back would be price, 8700K is let's say $335-350+ used, I can get a 7700K/8600K for less than $300, or 6700K/7600K for less than $250 typically. So, is the 8700K worth the extra money over a same-gen i5 8600K, or a previous gen i7 like the 7700K?

An 8 Core/16 Thread Core i9 9900K seems like it would be just crazy stupid overkill for me at this time in terms of both price and performance.

That said though, I built my last PC with a 4C/4T CPU and ended up upgrading to a 4C/8T CPU probably a year and-a-half after I built it (Mainly because my 4690K was a terrible overclocker, but I have come to like having the additional threads so that I can have other things running in the background while I game and it doesn't make it a terrible or unbearable experience in terms of FPS-lag or general system lag while playing from other programs running in the background.)

On another note, did Intel ever fix their warping/warped PCB issue on their CPU's from using past-gen coolers released when Z68-Z97 were the top of the line that had higher mounting pressure?
 
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EarthDog

Gulper Nozzle Co-Owner
Joined
Dec 15, 2008
Location
Buckeyes!
1080p can be pretty cpu bound depending on the game and settings. Youd get some more mileage out of that platform if its overclocked more. 4.8ghz will likely see decent gains assuming 1080p gaming.

I'd look into z390 and i7 9700k/i9 9900k...push those puppies to 5 ghz and enjoy. :)

Wrapping issue wasn't a huge thing then.. no worries now.
 
OP
Tech Tweaker

Tech Tweaker

Member
Joined
Dec 14, 2010
what resolution are you gaming at?
it reads like you might be at 1080P

I'm at 1080P, and I thought I mentioned that in there somewhere. :confused:

I'm also running at stock, because my system developed a nasty habit a while back of blue-screening and needing more and more voltage to maintain stability of my overclock level on my CPU (4.6GHz previously) (more voltage than I was comfortable with feeding it IIRC). Actually, it still blue-screens, oddly enough only at startup from a cold-boot for reasons I still can't explain. Reinstalled my OS a while back to see if that would fix it, it didn't. Also switched graphics cards and swapped memory sticks. Nothing stopped the BSOD at startup from a cold boot though, and it still does it, and oddly the system is perfectly stable once I get it into the OS. I can put it into sleep mode and bring it back up no problem, or restart to install updates or programs and there's no problem, it just doesn't like cold booting. :confused:
 

caddi daddi

Godzilla to ant hills
Joined
Jan 10, 2012
every haswell I have had to get rid of acted that way, they start getting a need for a bit more voltage and it's all down hill from there, platform upgrade for you.
I still have 2 complete z97 rigs running and I'm keeping an eye out for another 4790K to replace one that's having the voltage addiction.
 

EarthDog

Gulper Nozzle Co-Owner
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Dec 15, 2008
Location
Buckeyes!
There's some sweet motherboards on the cheap in the classies. About to put up some RAM too. ;)

Regardless, at this point, I'd look at a 6c/12t or 8c/8t cpu. Ryzen 2 CPUs are also a way in at an lower price point.
 
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OP
Tech Tweaker

Tech Tweaker

Member
Joined
Dec 14, 2010
After three hours of research I'm having difficulty finding a Z370 or Z390 motherboard that has the features I'd be after. Couldn't find any ASRock, Asus, or Gigabyte boards that supported this and were still listed at newegg, and those are my usual top go-to brands.

Specifically a board with 2x Internal USB 2.0 headers and 2x-3x USB 3.0 headers, or 3x USB 2.0 and 1-4x USB 3.0 headers, or really any combination of 4-6 headers from USB 2.0 and 3.0. That is my first consideration, along with being ATX and having a good CPU power section/VRM since I tend to overclock my parts to some degree for some portion of their life in my builds, among other considerations. I guess that's less of a thing now than it was with LGA1155/LGA1150? My Z77 board has like 4x USB 2.0 ports along with 2x USB 3.0's. Guess the industry forgot people have to plug in USB connections internally?

And I gather that dual Ethernet ports are less of a thing now than they were 4-6 years ago for some reason and only seem to exist on some really high-end boards.

Fact is I have 1x USB 3.0 plug for my front USB 3.0 ports on my case, 1x USB 2.0 connection for my front USB 2.0 ports on my case, 1x USB 2.0 cable for my Corsair Link support on my PSU that I have going to a USB 3.0 port via a USB 3.0 to USB 2.0 adapter (the cable going from the PSU is 2.0), and 1x USB 2.0 cable coming from my Corsair AIO plugged into a USB 2.0 connection. So, I have four USB connections used right now in my current computer, and if I can't plug in all of my devices on a new board it's a no-go.

Edit: also re-engaged my overclock on the 4790K last night to 4.6GHz. It used to take 1.23V to keep stable when I first tested it for stability when the CPU was new to me, for a safety margin I set it to 1.25V this time and it seems to be stable so far. Gained about 9.5% more FPS on the GTX 1070 in Battlefield V from 92.85 FPS average to 102.5833 FPS average, which is pretty well in line with the percentage of the overclock actually.

every haswell I have had to get rid of acted that way, they start getting a need for a bit more voltage and it's all down hill from there, platform upgrade for you.
I still have 2 complete z97 rigs running and I'm keeping an eye out for another 4790K to replace one that's having the voltage addiction.

Really? I didn't know this was common for Haswell or Haswell Refresh/Devil's Canyon chips. I'd only ever seen this kind of degradation of an overclock where it requires more voltage to maintain it on chips that are very highly overclocked and typically much older, but this one admittedly never has been while I've had it. The most vCore I'd ever fed it was 1.32V for 4.7GHz, and that was only briefly for testing to see if 4.7GHz was sustainable (which it wasn't in my opinion, as the temps were going into the 80-87°C range regularly).
 
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EarthDog

Gulper Nozzle Co-Owner
Joined
Dec 15, 2008
Location
Buckeyes!
Z390 aorus master doesnt have 3x 2.0/1.1 internal headers and one 3.0?

Also, my case uses one usb 3.0 for 2x 3.0 and 2x 2.0 ports...



...something has to give.
 
OP
Tech Tweaker

Tech Tweaker

Member
Joined
Dec 14, 2010
Z390 aorus master doesnt have 3x 2.0/1.1 internal headers and one 3.0?

Also, my case uses one usb 3.0 for 2x 3.0 and 2x 2.0 ports...



...something has to give.
Nope, 2x USB 2.0 (one to the left of the left-most USB 2.0 is a TPM module header) and 1x USB 3.0. I admittedly hadn't looked at that one I don't think though (due to price), though it's cheaper than some I've seen listed for near $500 (I don't care what a consumer grade non-HEDT board does, it probably isn't worth $500 to me). Maybe I'm just strange though.

Really, you can do that? So, that was what a USB 3.0 splitter with another USB 3.0 splitter on one side and a USB 3.0 to dual USB2.0 splitter on the other side? I figured USB 3.0 ports maxed out at two connections each.

Is MSI decent these days, heard they had some QC issues there for a while some years back? Found a few MSI boards with 2x USB 2.0 and 2x USB 3.0 onboard.

MSI Z370 SLI PLUS-$143

MSI Z370 KRAIT GAMING (don't really get the whole black and white zebra thing, but whatever)-$153-175

MSI Z370 GAMING M5-$190

MSI Z370 TOMAHAWK-$195

MSI Z370 GAMING PRO CARBON AC-$207


MSI MAG Z390 TOMAHAWK-$153-160

MSI MPG Z390 GAMING EDGE AC-$181-190

MSI MPG Z390 GAMING PRO CARBON-$200

MSI MPG Z390 GAMING PRO CARBON AC-$230-285

MSI MEG Z390 ACE-$280-290

MSI MEG Z390 GODLIKE-$565-600 (would meet needs, but dang is it expensive... :comp: :drool: *wanted an emoji with chin hitting floor, couldn't find one. Guess this will do*

the z370 extreme 4 will not do the trick for you?
I may have missed that one, as I think I was looking for Extreme6 and up. *Just realized they apparently eliminated the Extreme6, Extreme9 and Extreme11 from their lineup. Now I am sad. :(:rain:
 
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maxfly

Member
Joined
May 7, 2005
the z370 extreme 4 will not do the trick for you?

+1 when i was planning my upgrade to a z390/9900k rig, that was my choice after many many moons of researching. its the best price to performance z390 mb i could find. it leaves you set up for a 9900k upgrade later on if you decide to go with a 8700/8600 for now. but used gear is your best option tbh. there are some badass deals to be had for gently used z370 gear.
 

shadowdr

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 10, 2001
I'm at 1080P, and I thought I mentioned that in there somewhere. :confused:

I'm also running at stock, because my system developed a nasty habit a while back of blue-screening and needing more and more voltage to maintain stability of my overclock level on my CPU (4.6GHz previously) (more voltage than I was comfortable with feeding it IIRC). Actually, it still blue-screens, oddly enough only at startup from a cold-boot for reasons I still can't explain. Reinstalled my OS a while back to see if that would fix it, it didn't. Also switched graphics cards and swapped memory sticks. Nothing stopped the BSOD at startup from a cold boot though, and it still does it, and oddly the system is perfectly stable once I get it into the OS. I can put it into sleep mode and bring it back up no problem, or restart to install updates or programs and there's no problem, it just doesn't like cold booting. :confused:

Mine had just started doing that on cold boot. I thought it was strange that it would do this only on cold boot but a simple reset and it started fine. I also noted that it started after a windows update and I think that it has a new startup screen. For me somehow the power settings had changed, even though I did not have fast boot enabled in bios, in control panel under Power options, chose what power buttons do, fastboot was checked. Unticking that box fixed the cold boot for me, it might work for you.
 

Witchdoctor

Member
Joined
Apr 12, 2014
2700+ could give you 8/c 16/t performance at a competitive price.

3rd gen Ryzen due mid 2019 is a platform I am looking at closely
 
OP
Tech Tweaker

Tech Tweaker

Member
Joined
Dec 14, 2010
Mine had just started doing that on cold boot. I thought it was strange that it would do this only on cold boot but a simple reset and it started fine. I also noted that it started after a windows update and I think that it has a new startup screen. For me somehow the power settings had changed, even though I did not have fast boot enabled in bios, in control panel under Power options, chose what power buttons do, fastboot was checked. Unticking that box fixed the cold boot for me, it might work for you.

Thanks for that, it solved my cold-booting issue.

Don't know why that would be an option in the OS when I already had fastboot/quickboot disabled in the bios (Made it too difficult to get into the bios when I needed to change settings.).