Is now a reasonable time to upgrade or wait?

[bigmanute]

Well this is my current pc:
AMD Phenom II x4 B55 processor 3.3ghz, 4gb ram, mobo-Asus M4A77TD, Pny 560 Ti

As you can see its quite old and surely needs an upgrade or 2. This is what I was thinking of upgrading to.
I5-4690k
MSI Z97 Gaming 5 Mobo
samsung EVO 250 SSD
12gb ram
windows 8.1

As for the graphics card I think I'm going to wait for the 960 ti, I've had bad luck with any AMD cards in the past and I dont want to pay the price of a 970 and a 960 is too weak. So my question, is right now a good time to upgrade? I dont want to upgrade my cpu if a new Intel generation is right around the corner is it going to be worth it now or to just wait ? I want something that will last me a few years and not be obsolete in a few months.

 

[Itachiii]

Hi bigmanute,
New Intel chips wont be out till summer 2015. Devil's canyon are relatively new chips since they came out in August. As a matter of fact, I'm currently upgrading as well to Z97 platform with the same CPU. If you want it to last for 4-5 years then you'd better get 4790k (4c/8t) or even go LGA2011. Depends on ur use, if you're building a gaming machine, 960ti won't last long. So, what's your budget and what's your intended use of the rig? Will you overclock? Will you be doing any rendering/3d modeling?

 

[bigmanute]

Almost purely gaming. I'm spending around $600 right now, I'm probably just going to reuse my ram, case and GPU for right now then upgrade the GPU in a month or so, my CPU/ HDD is so old, I'd see huge improvements with a CPU and ssd

 

[bigmanute]

I may end up doing some rendering/ animation stuff depending on what my major ends up being, so if I could get a high quality mobo, ssd, windows 8 along with the i7 that would be ideal but I don't see it happening. At this point a ps4 is looking pretty good with how great uncharted 4 is looking.

 

[bigmanute]

Hi bigmanute,
New Intel chips wont be out till summer 2015. Devil's canyon are relatively new chips since they came out in August. As a matter of fact, I'm currently upgrading as well to Z97 platform with the same CPU. If you want it to last for 4-5 years then you'd better get 4790k (4c/8t) or even go LGA2011. Depends on ur use, if you're building a gaming machine, 960ti won't last long. So, what's your budget and what's your intended use of the rig? Will you overclock? Will you be doing any rendering/3d modeling?

And yes I would do overclocking

 

[Itachiii]

http://pcpartpicker.com/p/VCJDTW
Something like this would do for starters. With this cooler you can get a decent 24/7 overclock,depending on your chip ofc. Now,once you have money for the GPU, I would suggest a gtx 970 minimum if you want it to last for a good 2-3 years max.

 

[bigmanute]

http://pcpartpicker.com/p/VCJDTW
Something like this would do for starters. With this cooler you can get a decent 24/7 overclock,depending on your chip ofc. Now,once you have money for the GPU, I would suggest a gtx 970 minimum if you want it to last for a good 2-3 years max.

Well I've already got the hyper 212 cooler and I've heard I should stay away from the evo 840 and get the 850 instead, that mobo looks good but the problem is I still need windows 8 which is on sale for 79.99 at Newegg today.

 

[jasonlylevene]

I don't see PSU discussed.

That's the backbone. If you're planning on using your current unit, post what that is and how old it is.

I won't knock the board, I see what you're doing. Board choice is personal. We have fans of ASUS and enemies of ASUS, fans of ASRock and ASRock knockers. Gigabyte does well, and MSI is one of those with mixed responses, but it's 8 phase (not something cheaper like 4 or 6) which isn't bad. You could make that board do great things.

However, at the moment ASRock Extreme6 is $150 (pcpartspicker), probably with a rebate. 10 Sata ports, really nice audio, twin network ports, 12 phase power. It would qualify as a "high quality" board, with the caveats applied about ASRock. I've had great luck with ASRock boards, the Extreme6 is serving me very well.

Maya? 3DS Max? Sketchup? Blender? Which one can matter. Sketchup doesn't yet care about cores, it's GPU dependent, like a game. Max and Maya like cores, like RAM, as does Blender.

Choosing an i5 is a reasonable plan, put the money where it's best used. You might find an i7 later for a 30% gain in rendering.

I moved from an AMD 955 BE quad @ 3.7 Ghz to the Extreme6 with 4790K. It's in the region of 3x faster rendering, transcoding...in line with the synthetic benchmarks which predict 3X performance. Cut back 30% for the 4690K, and you're STILL way, way out in front as an upgrade.

You also didn't mention cooling.

The 212 Evo @ $35 is well liked and does nicely, but you won't get past 4.4 Ghz on a 4790K with great temperatures. For the 4690K, that's good too.

Do, however, review the delid threads and other writings on the IHS of the Intel line. We never saw, and do not see, this kind of thing on AMD. My own chip was ok without a delid, but I chose to delid anyway and got real gains for doing it. Some, due to IHS issues, need RMA. Few are actually well seated. Nearly all will gain in temperature performance from a delid, but it's a tough call - scary, slightly risky (less so with the vice only method, no hammers, no razors).

 

[bigmanute]

I don't see PSU discussed

That's the backbone. If you're planning on using your current unit, post what that is and how old it is.

I won't knock the board, I see what you're doing. Board choice is personal. We have fans of ASUS and enemies of ASUS, fans of ASRock and ASRock knockers. Gigabyte does well, and MSI is one of those with mixed responses, but it's 8 phase (not something cheaper like 4 or 6) which isn't bad. You could make that board do great things.

However, at the moment ASRock Extreme6 is $150 (pcpartspicker), probably with a rebate. 10 Sata ports, really nice audio, twin network ports, 12 phase power. It would qualify as a "high quality" board, with the caveats applied about ASRock. I've had great luck with ASRock boards, the Extreme6 is serving me very well.

Maya? 3DS Max? Sketchup? Blender? Which one can matter. Sketchup doesn't yet care about cores, it's GPU dependent, like a game. Max and Maya like cores, like RAM, as does Blender.

Choosing an i5 is a reasonable plan, put the money where it's best used. You might find an i7 later for a 30% gain in rendering.

I moved from an AMD 955 BE quad @ 3.7 Ghz to the Extreme6 with 4790K. It's in the region of 3x faster rendering, transcoding...in line with the synthetic benchmarks which predict 3X performance. Cut back 30% for the 4690K, and you're STILL way, way out in front as an upgrade.

You also didn't mention cooling.

The 212 Evo @ $35 is well liked and does nicely, but you won't get past 4.4 Ghz on a 4790K with great temperatures. For the 4690K, that's good too.

Do, however, review the delid threads and other writings on the IHS of the Intel line. We never saw, and do not see, this kind of thing on AMD. My own chip was ok without a delid, but I chose to delid anyway and got real gains for doing it. Some, due to IHS issues, need RMA. Few are actually well seated. Nearly all will gain in temperature performance from a delid, but it's a tough call - scary, slightly risky (less so with the vice only method, no hammers, no razors).

My bad my PSU is an antec 520w 80 plus bronze, and my CPU cooler is a hyper 212 evo, as I said I'm trying to keep it around $600. I really like the look of the MSI gaming 5 and the software it comes with. As for what programs I'll use it depends where I go with schooling so I'll just say it's purely gaming ATM.

 

[jasonlylevene]

At first I read "my bad psu"...I thought the PSU might be out the door. Is it under 5 years old? Antec made some good units, but let's make sure it's worthy of your plans. I discuss power below, but if you're unit has 2 years ahead of it, skip that.

Important point about power...just because a PSU runs a machine does NOT means it's in good shape!

The 212 EVO would handle a 4690K well enough, for the price it's tough to match (and you have it?)

I'm one of those who propose the 850 Pro over the Evo, but I get a lot of flack for it. The 850 uses 3D NAND, the only product on the shelf with it, and it's durability and speed is the best in class. However, for your profile of usage, the Evo is $30 less, and would do well. Keep it in mind when shaving prices.

With the board & a CPU, your near $350. It's either $150 or $130 (roughly) to add the SSD, depending on Pro or EVO, bringing you to $500 and change.

You have 4G RAM now, is it two sticks? 1333 or 1600?

8 GByte kits are running $120 to $150 these days, and while there are always warnings about mixing RAM, as long as you manually choose the speeds for the lowest performance of the two kits, and the voltages are compatible, you're fine usually.

You must have power, though...so RAM may be on hold.

Power can run $80, which nearly hits your $600 price point.

Any preferences?

Seasonic gets a lot of recommendations here, and a 550 is about $87. I've suggested the Rosewill CAPSTONE 750 for $80 (and 7 year warranty), but the brand is usually frowned upon (it's just a house brand kind of prejudice). The unit is a Superflower, with very good reviews. There is a modular and non-modular. You can't go wrong with Seasonic, but there are fans of the EVGA SuperNova.

Now, about watts...you can do with a 550, and a 750 that's a bargain should not be avoided because it's 750 and you don't need that much. What matters is price/value. For a 3 year+ run, you don't want to go cheap. You end up paying more for that in 2 years. The point is $80 can cut it, some rare deals might do for $60, with rebates or some other nonsense. The brand isn't nearly the point (in reality)...it's who actually built the thing that matters, and what capacitors and design is inside. That's why CAPSTONE is on my list..well made, priced nicely...

Corsair is great on customer service, but only some units are worth your money.

 

[bigmanute]

At first I read "my bad psu"...I thought the PSU might be out the door. Is it under 5 years old? Antec made some good units, but let's make sure it's worthy of your plans. I discuss power below, but if you're unit has 2 years ahead of it, skip that.

Important point about power...just because a PSU runs a machine does NOT means it's in good shape!

The 212 EVO would handle a 4690K well enough, for the price it's tough to match (and you have it?)

I'm one of those who propose the 850 Pro over the Evo, but I get a lot of flack for it. The 850 uses 3D NAND, the only product on the shelf with it, and it's durability and speed is the best in class. However, for your profile of usage, the Evo is $30 less, and would do well. Keep it in mind when shaving prices.

With the board & a CPU, your near $350. It's either $150 or $130 (roughly) to add the SSD, depending on Pro or EVO, bringing you to $500 and change.

You have 4G RAM now, is it two sticks? 1333 or 1600?

8 GByte kits are running $120 to $150 these days, and while there are always warnings about mixing RAM, as long as you manually choose the speeds for the lowest performance of the two kits, and the voltages are compatible, you're fine usually.

You must have power, though...so RAM may be on hold.

Power can run $80, which nearly hits your $600 price point.

Any preferences?

Seasonic gets a lot of recommendations here, and a 550 is about $87. I've suggested the Rosewill CAPSTONE 750 for $80 (and 7 year warranty), but the brand is usually frowned upon (it's just a house brand kind of prejudice). The unit is a Superflower, with very good reviews. There is a modular and non-modular. You can't go wrong with Seasonic, but there are fans of the EVGA SuperNova.

Now, about watts...you can do with a 550, and a 750 that's a bargain should not be avoided because it's 750 and you don't need that much. What matters is price/value. For a 3 year+ run, you don't want to go cheap. You end up paying more for that in 2 years. The point is $80 can cut it, some rare deals might do for $60, with rebates or some other nonsense. The brand isn't nearly the point (in reality)...it's who actually built the thing that matters, and what capacitors and design is inside. That's why CAPSTONE is on my list..well made, priced nicely...

Corsair is great on customer service, but only some units are worth your money.

http://pcpartpicker.com/p/df7BWZ


thats what i was looking at, the samsung evo was $99 (its not as of today) I might just go with a cheaper 120gb and grab another one later on. My psu is less than 2 years old and i did some research before buying it to make sure it was good quality and ive used calculators any my system would only use like 300watts anyway so i dont feel the need to upgrade the psu. I do have the evo hyper 212 plus already. My ram is 2 sticks at 1600 =4gb of ram. Also im just going to purchase everything from newegg i dont want to mess with all these other retailers.

 

[jasonlylevene]

Well, that's about 100% well thought through.

 

[bigmanute]

Well, that's about 100% well thought through.

I just dont know if i should pull the trigger now or wait for the new line up, i feel the longer i wait the system im going to buy is getting older. not sure

 

[jasonlylevene]

Ok, the wait for the next silicon option isn't going to be exciting.

Skylake isn't due until 2016 (parts on the shelf).

Broadwell, for socket 1150 desktop, in a few months. These are both 14 nm parts.

I expect them to be slightly disappointing, but I hope I'm wrong.

Broadwell may have small IPC gains over Haswell, but consider what happened on the way from 65 nm to 45nm to 32 nm.....then to 22nm,

In the earlier node shrinks, we gained speeds, dropped power demands...and they were all genuinely just smaller versions of the basic transistor design.

The 22nm was not. It's a different physical structure for the transistor; it's taller while being smaller in footprint. A lot of those 32nm chips (2600K) nearly hit 5Ghz, commonly 4.8Ghz. Most of the 22nm chips struggle to get past 4.6 Ghz. The IPC gains mitigate that loss, but in the bargain more heat is concentrated into a smaller area, making it more difficult to extract that heat.

The 14nm transistors are taller than the 22nm versions, and I expect simlar results. More heat in a smaller space, maybe less upward clock limits, more complex circuitry (another hit against upper speeds).

I don't expect much. Just like we didn't really get much between Sandy to Ivy to Haswell....there's some, sure, but Sandy and Ivy owners aren't all that motivated to spend cash on new boards and chips...their machines are so close to what we see with Haswell, they might as well wait.

You....you're moving upward about 320% performance getting a DC (I came from a 955 X4 @ 3.7 Ghz). Waiting for a broadwell, say 6 months max, might give you 335%.

Waiting for Skylake in 2016...maybe 345%.

Those are guestimates, and I hope I'm wrong enough that you'd actually be getting 350% and 375% respectively.

It hasn't happened in years, and I don't expect they have a secret sauce, but who knows....

It does appear from what I'm reading that 14nm is not about performance. It's about cost of production. They are cheaper to make, per transistor.

 

[bigmanute]

Ok, the wait for the next silicon option isn't going to be exciting.

Skylake isn't due until 2016 (parts on the shelf).

Broadwell, for socket 1150 desktop, in a few months. These are both 14 nm parts.

I expect them to be slightly disappointing, but I hope I'm wrong.

Broadwell may have small IPC gains over Haswell, but consider what happened on the way from 65 nm to 45nm to 32 nm.....then to 22nm,

In the earlier node shrinks, we gained speeds, dropped power demands...and they were all genuinely just smaller versions of the basic transistor design.

The 22nm was not. It's a different physical structure for the transistor; it's taller while being smaller in footprint. A lot of those 32nm chips (2600K) nearly hit 5Ghz, commonly 4.8Ghz. Most of the 22nm chips struggle to get past 4.6 Ghz. The IPC gains mitigate that loss, but in the bargain more heat is concentrated into a smaller area, making it more difficult to extract that heat.

The 14nm transistors are taller than the 22nm versions, and I expect simlar results. More heat in a smaller space, maybe less upward clock limits, more complex circuitry (another hit against upper speeds).

I don't expect much. Just like we didn't really get much between Sandy to Ivy to Haswell....there's some, sure, but Sandy and Ivy owners aren't all that motivated to spend cash on new boards and chips...their machines are so close to what we see with Haswell, they might as well wait.

You....you're moving upward about 320% performance getting a DC (I came from a 955 X4 @ 3.7 Ghz). Waiting for a broadwell, say 6 months max, might give you 335%.

Waiting for Skylake in 2016...maybe 345%.

Those are guestimates, and I hope I'm wrong enough that you'd actually be getting 350% and 375% respectively.

It hasn't happened in years, and I don't expect they have a secret sauce, but who knows....

It does appear from what I'm reading that 14nm is not about performance. It's about cost of production. They are cheaper to make, per transistor.

Thanks, that was really well written and explained many thing well!