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Is this really overclocking ?

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woscarr

Registered
Joined
Apr 2, 2002
Location
Ottawa, Canada
Im finding this hard to grasp.

Ok I have a Duron800 "o/c'ed" to 1000, multipler untouched, FBS upped from 100Mhz. to 124Mhz. And the core voltage from 1.60 to 1.85.

The way I see it I should be able to goto 133Mhz. FBS and stay within specs. My old AMD450/Aopen mobo ran at either 100 or 133 depending what kind of memory you had, I have 133 of corse. Ok I just had a memory lasp, I seem to remember something about 33 & 66 FBS, I think maybe a dual config 66/133 ? i would have to go thru all my old doc's (find them first!) to find my old mobo manual.

So from what I've researched AMD has turned the v-core volts down on the Duron (something to do with smaller cache and locking it?!), and the Duron can easly handle 1.85 v core voltage (also within spec's.). 133Mhz. front side bus is also within spec's on the Duron or any AMD Duron and up processor for that matter.

Yes I know the fact is... If you modify your system from factory setup then your overclocking but...

How am I stressing my system ?

I must be missing something here !

So i say it again...

Is it really overclocking ?

Thanks
Wayne

<<<alpha sig test>>>

My main Rig:
[email protected] L7 1.85v mod 8x124Mhz. FBS.
ECS K7S5A. Mobo30c/CPU 40c idle 45c max.
Cidicom 5E34B3-HH cpu cooler for AMD & Thermal grease.
250w PSU (noname) 3.3&5v=100/[email protected]/15a.
Georce2 MX 400 32meg XP detonator 28.32 drvs.
SoundBlaster Live Value 1024.
Aopen 8x8x32 CDR/CDWR.
Fujitsu 20gig 5500rpm H/D.
2 3" 12v case fans [email protected] mod, H/D cooler/twin fans, Geforce HSF.
CH Flight Sim Yoke & Pro Peddles.
Windows 98se/Windows 2000pro dual boot system.

<<<alpha sig test complete>>>
 

Sony

Senior Lighting Designer
Joined
May 2, 2001
woscarr said:
Im finding this hard to grasp.

Ok I have a Duron800 "o/c'ed" to 1000, multipler untouched, FBS upped from 100Mhz. to 124Mhz. And the core voltage from 1.60 to 1.85.

It's FSB (Front Side Bus) not FBS and 200Mhz is a good o/c if you ask me.


The way I see it I should be able to goto 133Mhz. FBS and stay within specs. My old AMD450/Aopen mobo ran at either 100 or 133 depending what kind of memory you had, I have 133 of corse. Ok I just had a memory lasp, I seem to remember something about 33 & 66 FBS, I think maybe a dual config 66/133 ? i would have to go thru all my old doc's (find them first!) to find my old mobo manual.

Acually that is not tottally true when you change the FSB you not just changing the clock speed of your CPU but also all the other components in your computer also because when you UP the FSB you also up the AGP and PCI clock also so your CPU may not be the thing that is stoping you it may well be you AGP and PCI cards can't take the strain I know Ethernet cards, sound cards and modems inpeticular are very touchy when it comes to FSB speed it also could be you RAM if it is a bad brand or a bad stick it might not be able to take it high FSB speed. It also could be your CPU or other parts of your computer are overheating getting to hot and becoming unstable not letting you go any higher It could even be that you PSU isn't powerful enough or isn't a good brand and can't take the strain it could be a million different things and i'm not going to list them all. Make sure you have a good HSF because stock cooling is not going to cut it with an AMD CPU. If you really want to get into it you can consider water cooling BUT BEWARE WATERCOOLING IS NOT FOR BEGINNERS. Many things can go wrong in a water cooling setup leaking and bad parts can ruin you system entierly by leaking water on you your computer shortying it out and destroying everything inside. And what you menitioned about Dual Config i'm pretty sure your thinging about the AGP and PCI speeds because the CPU runs at 100 or 133Mhz FSB and AGP Bus runs at 66Mhz FSB and PCI Bus runs at 33Mhz FSB. I don't know but looking at you manual could be a good idea.


So from what I've researched AMD has turned the v-core volts down on the Duron (something to do with smaller cache and locking it?!), and the Duron can easly handle 1.85 v core voltage (also within spec's.). 133Mhz. front side bus is also within spec's on the Duron or any AMD Duron and up processor for that matter.

Don't know anything bout the V-Core difference on the Duron but I thought it was the same. Your Duron could probably handle the 133Mhz FSB you are just going to have to lower you multiplier .

Yes I know the fact is... If you modify your system from factory setup then your overclocking but...

How am I stressing my system ?

I must be missing something here !

So i say it again...

Is it really overclocking ?

Thanks
Wayne

Yes you are stressing it by making a chip that was ment to go 800Mhz at 100FSB go 1Ghz at 124FSB you are stressing it a lot even if you don't think so plus you are also not only stressing the CPU you are stressing the AGP and PCI cards and the RAM by uping the FSB so yes it is overclocking and don't forget 200Mhz is quite a substantial o/c for a 800Mhz Duron you should take a look in the CPU Databases to see what other people have gotten your chip up to. Also look around the forums a bit and see if you can get any tips on tweaking that o/c you got there.

Sony
 
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JigPu

Inactive Pokémon Moderator
Joined
Jun 20, 2001
Location
Vancouver, WA
Yes, I would call that a REAL overclock. Just because a chip is techniclaly capable of reaching a speed, or running at a specific VCore, dosen't mean that that chip could do that when they tested it. Also, even if it could and they marked down the speed for some reason, you are still running it past "sticker speed", and thus truly overclocking.

JigPu
 

Smizack

Dead Boomslang collector
Joined
Jun 26, 2001
Location
O.K.
I'd call anything over the said(or standard) chip speed an o/c who cares how you do it. I'd do it by osmosis if I could. And the less work the better!:D
 

Maximus Nickus

Senior Shaman
Joined
Oct 4, 2001
Location
Milton Keynes, U.K.
First your chips Voltage isn't locked, thats the Multiplier. Simply pencil the L1 bridges together to remove the lock. (watch for shorts)

Next to hit 133FSB you will have to lower the multiplier, if you don't then your chip is going to be running out of spec.

Next and last FSB is the speed at which the everything is connected through the northbridge.
The memory doesn't always run at thesame as the FSB, you can choose PC-100 when you are running 133FSB if your memory can't take it.


M_N
 

David

Forums Super Moderator
Joined
Feb 20, 2001
Just one note about the 124MHz FSB, it will be using the dividers for 133MHz, so will be underclocking the PCI and AGP clocks:

PCI = 1/4 * 124 = 31Mhz (33 usually)
AGP= 1/2 * 124 = 62MHz (66 usually)

This may or may not affect total system speed.

200Mhz looks like a good OC to me...
(mine is only 66Mhz :eek:)
 

nihili

Inactive Doc Logic Philosophical Mod
Joined
Sep 9, 2001
Location
Pocatello, ID
Maximus Nickus said:


Next to hit 133FSB you will have to lower the multiplier, if you don't then your chip is going to be running out of spec.


Actually my current overclock consists almost entirely of setting the FSB to 133. Even though my Duron 750 is unlocked, I get the most stability by leaving the multiplier alone and just bumping up the FSB. It's different with every setup though.

Yes, it's an overclock. Basic overclocking isn't terribly hard, it's mostly a matter of making sure things don't overheat. It does stress your system somewhat, but in the case you describe it probably doesn't stress it enough that you'll notice it. Overclocking gets trickier the further you push the envelope. I got to 900mhz very easily. Getting to 1000 required doing a volt mod to my board. Getting to 1100 requires more fans than I care to listen to and a pretty delicate balance of several settings in the BIOS.

Congrats, Welcome, and Best of Luck,

nihili
 

Maximus Nickus

Senior Shaman
Joined
Oct 4, 2001
Location
Milton Keynes, U.K.
The problem with Durons under 900Mhz is they haven't been known to overclock very well, that is the difference from 100/133 FSB.

But it is different for every setup, different systems produce different amounts of heat, overclockability and stability.
Its best to try and see. But if you can't go over 122FSB then I'd guess its your CPU.


M_N
 

David

Forums Super Moderator
Joined
Feb 20, 2001
Durons 600MHz to 950Mhz are based on the Spitfire core, which reaches its limit around 1100MHz. The morgran core will be good till baout 1500MHz, found on 1Ghz Durons and upwards.
 
OP
W

woscarr

Registered
Joined
Apr 2, 2002
Location
Ottawa, Canada
Ok I think it's starting to sink in.
I tried to up the fbs to 133/133 from 124/124, posted ok, but when selecting the o/s to boot, win2k would give some fatal error right away, win98 will boot then bsod on the desktop. So I can see how this is definitely over stressing your system.

But on a side note, two weird things have happened lately;
1: Right after the above attempt to clock my system at 133/133 I was checking the hardware monitor in the bios and noticed some funky things... +5v was down to almost 4.5, and +12 and -12 were at like 13.7/-13.7 respectively, and thepsu was making some funny noises. Normally +5v (like right now,today) runs at approx. 4.8/4.9. MM5 says 4.87 right now.
2: Normally I leave my systems running 24/7, but since I built this system 3 days ago I've been shutting down at night. today I go to turn it on... nothing!? push the button again... nothing, figured psu had kicked the bucket. I was farting around, unplugged the pc from the power strip, plugged back in, pushed the button and started right up ?! Like I said it's the cheesy psu Im using (see alpha sig test)

So I will start shopping for a new PSU, Im a chepo so I was hoping to get away with this one but it kinda works out because I need another atx psu to run a 400mhz. machine.


But Im still a little confused about bus speeds and what not.


David said:
Just one note about the 124MHz FSB, it will be using the dividers for 133MHz, so will be underclocking the PCI and AGP clocks:

PCI = 1/4 * 124 = 31Mhz (33 usually)
AGP= 1/2 * 124 = 62MHz (66 usually)

This may or may not affect total system speed.

200Mhz looks like a good OC to me...
(mine is only 66Mhz :eek:)

So Im under-clocking my system ? WOW! This is not the results I was hopin' for. So I would need a bios mod to be able to set 124/133 instead of 124/124..right? Wonder if this could be done?
Im also hopin' a psu upgrade will me get to 133/133.:)

Thanks all for the reply's.
Wayne

<<<alpha sig test>>>

My main Rig:
[email protected] L7 1.85v mod 8x124Mhz. FBS.
ECS K7S5A. Mobo30c/CPU 40c idle 45c max.
Cidicom 5E34B3-HH cpu cooler for AMD & Thermal grease.
250w PSU (noname) 3.3&5v=100/[email protected]/15a.
Georce2 MX 400 32meg XP detonator 28.32 drvs.
256 Megs PC133 cas2
SoundBlaster Live Value 1024.
Aopen 8x8x32 CDR/CDWR.
Fujitsu 20gig 5500rpm H/D.
2 3" 12v case fans [email protected] mod, H/D cooler/twin fans, Geforce HSF.
CH Flight Sim Yoke & Pro Peddles.
Windows 98se/Windows 2000pro dual boot system.

<<<alpha sig test complete>>>
 
Last edited:

Flamed_Chip

Member
Joined
Dec 3, 2001
Location
Yorkshire, UK
Maximus Nickus said:
The problem with Durons under 900Mhz is they haven't been known to overclock very well, that is the difference from 100/133 FSB.

Your joking right? the durons below 1ghz, right down to 650mhz will nearly all hit over 1000 mhz no probs at all. They are fantastic o/c'ers
 

David

Forums Super Moderator
Joined
Feb 20, 2001
Durons are fantastic overclockers at any speed. However, the spitfire core has a limit of around 1200Mhz. The CPUs will overclock fine, but none of them will pas 1200 very easily.
 

Silver

Senior Citizen (aka old fart)
Joined
Nov 24, 2001
Location
Dallas, Georgia
Woscarr, the note about the psu making strange noises is interesting. Story....My Duron 750 would run at 960 on air with a 133 fsb on an Abit KT7A. Put water on and did volt mod and at 1000 or so the psu would really act like it was under a load. It would make a strange deep hum. Changed out the 300 watt psu to a 400 watt Antec and the processor was good to 1120. That was a pretty good oc. I do not remember you stating anything about the psu. What wattage is it as you may be putting a pretty good load on it. It looks like the 5v is doing all it can with the 12v reading so high at idle yet the 5v dropping dramatically under load. You really do not want to go below 4.75 or so. Do tell, what psu are you running?
 

Maximus Nickus

Senior Shaman
Joined
Oct 4, 2001
Location
Milton Keynes, U.K.
Thats what I meant! If its slower than 1.2Ghz then its not enough!!!!!

But then again my T-Bird has a 55% overclock...guess my expectations are too high!


M_N
 
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OP
W

woscarr

Registered
Joined
Apr 2, 2002
Location
Ottawa, Canada
I'm running a LPD2-250w PSU that came with a ATX mid-tower I purchased 6 months ago.
It dose have a detailed sticker on it detailing all output info. 3.3&5v=100/[email protected]/15a. respectively.
-5=0.3A/+12=5.5A/-12=0.5A/+5vSB=0.8A/

Whatever happen the other day has seemed to have went away. I'm still o/c'ing my d800-1000, since then started o/c'ing my geforce2 to the MAX and set my ram speed to Fast in the bios. That gave me almost 1500 more points in 3dmark. Everything stable!

Everything is running really cool on my system. I constantly monitor my cpu,mobo,chipset,gpu/mem and the psu for any excessive heat. It's never an issue!

Running flight simulator 2002 last night for three hours, the computer "give in' her all she's got Captain" to churn out 25fps of high detailed 3d graphics. Of corse 25fps is all you really need. Right after I finished I rebooted into the bios. mobo was 32c and cpu was 44c... Not bad for a o/c system.

Wayne