Is WinXP to become the last embraced version of Windows?

[flynismo]

Pretty much anything Microsoft does gets criticized; I doubt the reception for the next OS will be much better than Vista's was...
I didn't like Vista at first, because it was so slow, and I didn't feel like relearning the interface. But after upgrading my hardware, and moving to Ultimate 64, Vista is insanely fast, even quicker than the stripped down version of XP 64 I had installed. That, and the fact I have had no compatability or driver or software issues whatsoever (ask me how easy it was to get my Nvidia drivers installed on Vista and how much of a PITA it was to get working properly on Linux), changed my mind about Vista. And I even grew to like the Aero interface; I think it looks more elegant and modern than Mac or Linux (but still like the simplicity of the others much more)...
All said, I could never go back to XP or Mac; Vista has just been great.

 

[wolfy1220]

All this OS bashing really is tiring, I really hate the fact people whine about how much microsoft is and how their os's suck and how linux/unix are sooo much better. Well good for you, stop your dang whining and use them.
/rant

on a side note xp was great, if you like it over vista then use it. If you like vista over xp great. There is no difference as to who says what is better because if it works for you and gets the job done then use it and be happy.

 

[Adragontattoo]

All this OS bashing really is tiring, I really hate the fact people whine about how much microsoft is and how their os's suck and how linux/unix are sooo much better. Well good for you, stop your dang whining and use them.
/rant

on a side note xp was great, if you like it over vista then use it. If you like vista over xp great. There is no difference as to who says what is better because if it works for you and gets the job done then use it and be happy.

So you are saying that we should all just stop discussing the merits of each OS completely and keep quiet anything that might be an improvement?

 

[Automata]

Sorry to pull from the beginning of the thread, but no one mentioned this:

Vista is known for draining laptop batteries and consuming more electricity on desktops.

I'm sorry, what? It drains laptop batteries?

I have a Toshiba P100-9612 (Core Duo 2.0ghz and a 7900GTX Go) and I get 1.75 hours at the desktop in XP. Care to guess what Vista gets? 2.5 hours. This is with everything enabled, just a clean format and Aero is enabled. It sucks so much battery life that it returns it? I'm confused now.

So you are saying that we should all just stop discussing the merits of each OS completely and keep quiet anything that might be an improvement?

I believe he meant that people should stop bashing the same things over and over and over and over. How many "Vista sucks" threads are here now? I really don't want to count...

 

[wolfy1220]

Thanks Thideras, that is exactly what I meant, I am just tired of hearing so much of how vista sux etc.. I re-read what I posted and suppose I could have written it better. Appologies.

 

[Oroka Sempai]

Vista's problem is that they took too long to put it out. Before, Windows got a new version every 2-3 years, but XP was king for 6. People got so used to XP that they are not willing to consider switching.

 

[AngelfireUk83]

In my experience of using VISTA I can say I've had about 30mins in total with it my 1st thoughts it's hard to get around since eveything's changed like control panel has quite a lot. If I had my copy I would give it a go on my rig below but before I installed it I would find as many official tweaks as possible to keep it at a decent performance.

Now I've downgraded about 4 laptops, 3 PC's from VISTA to XP SP3 all because of the same thing "They just didn't like it" I can't say your right to choose XP because sooner or later where all going to have to move on to keep up with the world. I will be using XP as much as I can but may consider VISTA for my next build which will be a Quad Core PC.

I agree that MS wont create something like XP for a long time but it took 2-3yrs to be liked properly it had it's flaws just like VISTA has/had we'll all see what this Windows 7 will be like might be better might not. But people will have mixed reactions XP or VISTA it's upto them to dive in give it ago or stay with what you know and are used to.

 

[benbaked]

Sorry to pull from the beginning of the thread, but no one mentioned this:

I mentioned it. Not the part of the draining laptop batteries, but the part about Vista running the system at 100% all of the time. Nobody reads my posts anymore.

 

[FudgeNuggets]

Linux and OSX are similar in many ways and are gaining a bigger market share, a market share that Windows is losing. Windows is only not losing more due to the fear of switching over and being comfortable with the familiar. Apple is now telling people they'll convert all their PC stuff over to their new Mac for Free. I think Microsoft is moving in the wrong direction with Windows 7. Instead of fixing what's wrong with Vista and adding on some more features they should be looking to be more like OSX and Linux thus "reinventing" Windows. Windows is becoming the Oldsmobile of operating systems and we know what happend to Oldsmobile, right?

 

[Mr.Guvernment]

There was an intial bug with Vista and USB ports which caused laptops to drain there battery faster because of some USB bug issue, but that was back in the RC days and such, that was fixed a LONG time ago.

 

[jayfella]

I would join the linux community if it werent for the command prompt commands all of the time.

I know this is for security reasons, fair enough, but they should be on a GUI level by now. Novice users (such as myself in a Linux OS) have no idea, and spend a good 3 or 4 months learning, rather than enjoying. I can pick up a game and within 2 minutes am enjoying myself. Can pick up a new piece of software and enjoy it if its any good.

The lat time i installed Ubuntu, i was pulling my hair out just trying to install that bloody free army game. I got it installed eventually. It was really good. Till i had to try and get admin rights again to install something else....

As soon as Lunix make those command prompt commands a GUI or allow an optional GUI to proces these commands, ill be right there on Linux.

Dont get me wrong, im a regular jenny from the block. I was bred on Dos 5 and ASCII art, when Telix was the only way to communicate via PC, and those old games, which were great. But those days are gone now. Bring on the fancy GUI, and make it snappy linux, or you wont compete in this day and age.

 

[FudgeNuggets]

Jay, you are not alone. I can't friggin stand Linux. They're on the right track but even when you use an appinstaller like YAST or YOP then you always have to go in and fiddle with the URLs in the list of sources that it seeks out for its' updates due to all the dead links and stuff.

OSX is Linux perfected (yeah....yeah.....it's BSD blah blah blah don't start Linux guys....) and ultimately is the direction the Ubuntu guys should go. They're getting there but they're still a bit far off too.

 

[Sorin]

I would join the linux community if it werent for the command prompt commands all of the time.

I know this is for security reasons, fair enough, but they should be on a GUI level by now. Novice users (such as myself in a Linux OS) have no idea, and spend a good 3 or 4 months learning, rather than enjoying. I can pick up a game and within 2 minutes am enjoying myself. Can pick up a new piece of software and enjoy it if its any good.

The lat time i installed Ubuntu, i was pulling my hair out just trying to install that bloody free army game. I got it installed eventually. It was really good. Till i had to try and get admin rights again to install something else....

As soon as Lunix make those command prompt commands a GUI or allow an optional GUI to proces these commands, ill be right there on Linux.

Dont get me wrong, im a regular jenny from the block. I was bred on Dos 5 and ASCII art, when Telix was the only way to communicate via PC, and those old games, which were great. But those days are gone now. Bring on the fancy GUI, and make it snappy linux, or you wont compete in this day and age.

That's one of the reasons I hate Linux too and don't use it. The overbearing affinity for the goddamn command prompt. It's ridiculous. They're constantly trying to make Linux appeal more and more to the average mainstream PC user...well guess what? They don't use the command prompt during every single task on their computer! Whenever someone has a problem in Linux or wants to know how to do something, it's always the first thing they're sent to.

"I can't get this to work."
"Ok, well go to the terminal and..."

"How do I do (this or that)?"
"Well, open a terminal and..."

"What do I do to make it do this for me?"
"First thing, go to the terminal and..."

Yup. That's going over really well with Average Joe.

I'm taking a class on it though this quarter for academic purposes, so we'll see if it makes it any better for me.

 

[jayfella]

We all also have to remember that in the name of progression, things like the aero theme and Win+TAB are progression. Im not saying its in the perfect direction, but hey, if you wanna be funny, what was wrong with the good old dos prompt? It worked. It did exactly what it said on the tin. But in the name of progression, we moved on.

What Microsoft really lacks is a competitor. In order for nVidia to improve they need ATi on their backs. Nobody can do that with Microsoft.

I really wish Linux would change from a free-source. People will works their fingers to the bone to compete with the likes of Microsoft. If people had a purpose for developing Linux, and lets face it, money talks, OS progression would accelerate in leaps and bounds.

Its all very well promoting the free source, but its just not working. I would happily buy Linux if it could compete. People would design games, the operating system as we know it would flourish in a panic of "be-the-best" and we would all benefit.

 

[FudgeNuggets]

I wouldn't call Aero progress. The Aero/Glass theme requires so much hardware power and resources that I would actually consider it regression OSX looks as good or better and can run on Intel GMA graphics chipsets. I know there is an Aero-like interface for either Gnome or KDE that isn't so intensive as well just don't recall the name of it.

 

[Sorin]

What Microsoft really lacks is a competitor. In order for nVidia to improve they need ATi on their backs. Nobody can do that with Microsoft.

I really wish Linux would change from a free-source. People will works their fingers to the bone to compete with the likes of Microsoft. If people had a purpose for developing Linux, and lets face it, money talks, OS progression would accelerate in leaps and bounds.

Its all very well promoting the free source, but its just not working. I would happily buy Linux if it could compete. People would design games, the operating system as we know it would flourish in a panic of "be-the-best" and we would all benefit.

Truf. Money talks. Right now it seems Linux is more like a weekend and free time thing that people develop for when they have time to or when they get donations for it. Which also means that all these random people design the GUI and other user interaction points of the OS according to what they like or what they personally feel is best, with no user research behind it and no user centered design principles to guide it.

If there was real money behind it, however, like for Windows or OS X, Linux would seriously be going places. Free/open source is absolutely a great idea in general, but it doesn't seem to work well with something as huge and complex and involved as an operating system. Small and/or simple applications here and there, sure. But an OS...I dunno.

 

[David]

That's one of the reasons I hate Linux too and don't use it. The overbearing affinity for the goddamn command prompt. It's ridiculous. They're constantly trying to make Linux appeal more and more to the average mainstream PC user...well guess what? They don't use the command prompt during every single task on their computer! Whenever someone has a problem in Linux or wants to know how to do something, it's always the first thing they're sent to.

This is because BASH is quite possibly one of the most fantastic components of most Linux operating systems. It's incredibly powerful once you get to know how to use it. The GUI can be used for all major desktop uses (web browsing, email, music & video, games) however for making changes to your system a few commands typed in can be much quicker and easier than messing with settings. The DOS prompt is a joke compared to BASH, and the flexibility and power it has.

It does take some getting used to a command line but once you get comfortable with BASH, Linux as a whole becomes much much more comfortable.

I really wish Linux would change from a free-source. People will works their fingers to the bone to compete with the likes of Microsoft. If people had a purpose for developing Linux, and lets face it, money talks, OS progression would accelerate in leaps and bounds.

Its all very well promoting the free source, but its just not working. I would happily buy Linux if it could compete. People would design games, the operating system as we know it would flourish in a panic of "be-the-best" and we would all benefit.

I think it's a chicken-and-egg issue in part - no-one will go out on a limb and get their mainstream Linux OS into mainstream PCs because the chance of success is so low. Most major desktop apps and games are developed for Windows. Desktop users who have known Windows all their lives will find it hard to switch - it involves breaking away from all the software that they know how to use. There are viable (and often superior) alternatives around like Firefox, Opera, Thunderbird, Openoffice, etc but people don't know they are there. In order to make any sort of switch you need to gradually feel out what sort of software you need to get to replace the software you know. I've tried several times to switch entirely but I'm held back by the fact that Office 2007 is far superior to Openoffice, ChemDraw I can't get to work with Linux, and I play games occasionally.

There's more to just putting a viable distro out there (Red Hat and SuSE are two commercial comes-in-a-box-with-support distros for example) on peoples PCs - you need a great deal of education for people moreso to help them replace Windows apps with Linux ones than to actually use the Linux system.

Truf. Money talks. Right now it seems Linux is more like a weekend and free time thing that people develop for when they have time to or when they get donations for it. Which also means that all these random people design the GUI and other user interaction points of the OS according to what they like or what they personally feel is best, with no user research behind it and no user centered design principles to guide it.

This is true. However, rather than the one-size-fits-all Windows approach you have several different ones. Like minimalism to the extreme? Use Fluxbox as your window manager. Like a fully-fledged but easy to use one? GNOME. Like a fully-fledged window manager with all the toys and settings? KDE.

This can, however result in having several 80% complete alternatives rather than one 100% ready/polished one.

If there was real money behind it, however, like for Windows or OS X, Linux would seriously be going places. Free/open source is absolutely a great idea in general, but it doesn't seem to work well with something as huge and complex and involved as an operating system. Small and/or simple applications here and there, sure. But an OS...I dunno.

Red Hat and SuSE are just two commercial companies working with Linux. They tie all the gubbinz together into a usable, supportable operating system.

I bought SuSE 7.0 a number of years ago (2001-2002 IIRC) which came on 5 CDs (plus a DVD with the CD contents on it, I didn't have a DVD drive at the time though ), with two manuals, a case sticker and a period of telephone support. Such things exist, although the two examples have shifted quite far towards enterprise solutions.

Cheaper than Vista methinks: https://www.redhat.com/apps/store/desktop/

 

[I.M.O.G.]

A lot of people compare their windows experience to their linux experience, noting their difficulties without remembering what it was like the first time they used a windows pc and they were clueless. They forget that they weren't trying to regedit and/or install crazy stuff the first week they were using windows. Switching to linux is like relearning how to use a computer in many ways - that's not acceptable to a lot of people, and they wrongfully blame linux for it. Linux is different, but not wrong - it takes some getting used to.

The best distro out there for these types who don't want to relearn everything is Ubuntu. On ubuntu 8.04, everything can be done from the gui - as a user there is no reason you ever need to open a terminal. If your trying to administer things, then yes, the terminal is often the easiest/quickest way to do things, but it is by no means required to use the system.

The trouble comes for those who want to monkey around and find the jungle gym is different than it was in windows. For grandma, an ubuntu system is going to do all the basics she's used to without any trouble. For enthusiasts who want to tinker tho, they will find things work differently and possibly in a way they don't like as much. The efficiency and power of Bash (ie the terminal) is not something immediately recognized - for a windows convert, its like vi only slightly more useable.

Synaptic is a truly wonderful package manager - there is no browsing odd websites to find applications. Everything for common needs is available in a built-in GUI package manager. You select what you want, hit install and all dependencies and everything you need is downloaded and installed for you - and its all been tested to ensure its not going to bork things up. Windows has nothing like it.

The directory structure on linux is also sane, and its another thing about linux which goes unappreciated by windows converts. In windows, files are spewed everywhere - install a 3rd party app and you end up with program dlls in c:\windows\ - wtf? Save program settings go into the programs directoru, or maybe docs and settings, or anywhere else because no one made it really clear where things belong. Linux has a meaningful directory layout that's really nice to work with once you understand what belongs where - most developers respect it and put things where they belong because you can tell how things should be. The windows file system has little semblance of order.

So ya, linux is different and it takes some time to learn - most of the best stuff about linux isn't readily discernible until you understand how things work and why, or how windows does things and why its bad.

I loved windows for quite a while, but was looking for more frequent releases and new things to play with, so I turned to linux. Possibly the best thing about linux after I've been using it is how you can do anything with it, and make pretty much anything work - some odd things are challenging, but all the information you need to get it going is out there somewhere, and if you work hard at it, when you finally get it working it feels really rewarding. I like that. I also like feeling like I have a better understanding of how things get done, and how things go wrong. Dmesg output is cool when somethings not working right, and the debugging and error reports on linux are head and shoulders better than windows - its frustrating now looking at windows and seeing how much goes on behind closed doors. If a driver isn't working well good luck figuring out what is really going wrong - I can fix it sure, but I have little indication of what is causing the problem. In linux, the system is much more open and if I dig deep enough, I can get a pretty good indication of where things go off track.

I like that.

 

[Sorin]

This is because BASH is quite possibly one of the most fantastic components of most Linux operating systems. It's incredibly powerful once you get to know how to use it. The GUI can be used for all major desktop uses (web browsing, email, music & video, games) however for making changes to your system a few commands typed in can be much quicker and easier than messing with settings. The DOS prompt is a joke compared to BASH, and the flexibility and power it has.

It does take some getting used to a command line but once you get comfortable with BASH, Linux as a whole becomes much much more comfortable.

This is true. However, rather than the one-size-fits-all Windows approach you have several different ones. Like minimalism to the extreme? Use Fluxbox as your window manager. Like a fully-fledged but easy to use one? GNOME. Like a fully-fledged window manager with all the toys and settings? KDE.

This can, however result in having several 80% complete alternatives rather than one 100% ready/polished one.

I just want to make sure we are on the same page here and talking about Soccer Mom, Corporate Joe, and Jack and Susie Myspace and not 1337 Hacker Computer Enthusiast Neo. The latter I can see commandlining their way through their computer all day to get everything working, the former I cannot.

 

[David]

I just want to make sure we are on the same page here and talking about Soccer Mom, Corporate Joe, and Jack and Susie Myspace and not 1337 Hacker Computer Enthusiast Neo. The latter I can see commandlining their way through their computer all day to get everything working, the former I cannot.

I maybe wasn't clear.

Even soccer mom, corporate joe etc can use Linux on a day to day basis without resorting to the command line. It's only when there are problems that the command line may be needed. The aforementioned computer users are often intimidated by the control panel in windows anyway....