It looks like the prices for the Ryzen 9000 series cpu's is going to be really good.

[Woomack]

That could be interpreted different ways.

If you mean, how well would it work? We'll have to wait and see. I wouldn't be too surprised if there were some more updates early on than later as small adjustments are made.

If you mean, getting a system working at all, bios flashback seems to be common although I haven't looked closely at what proportion of boards support it. For my mobo, the first mention of bios support for next gen CPUs was in April. So presumably anything manufactured from that time onwards has some support out of the box. In looking this up, I see there was a bios with newer AGESA released some days ago for my mobo. Wonder if there is any benefit to having that for Zen 4, or if the main update is for Zen 5 support. Doesn't list anything else.

I mean, will some motherboards post with new CPUs, even with the new BIOS, or will they be stable/won't cause various problems? I'm not sure if there are BIOS releases for all cheaper models, but I know they are for popular models. My ASUS and Gigabyte motherboards had updates some weeks ago.
Most motherboards, even though old models, are shipped with old/initial BIOS. I bought a GB B650 mobo for work earlier this month from a store with high sales, so it wasn't on the shelves for longer. It was with BIOS F2 while there are F30+ for most AMD mobos. I had the same with MSI a while ago. I just doubt that, except for the batches shipped 2-3 weeks before the premiere, all older ones will have updated BIOS. If motherboards are in the manufacturer's warehouse 2-3 weeks before the premiere, then there is a chance they will be updated. If they are in stores or large warehouses (Amazon or some others), then expect it will be with older BIOS.
BIOS flashback is the only option to ensure that we can avoid problems with the new motherboard and CPU. Of course, assuming that the user doesn't have access to an older CPU. As you said, it's more common nowadays, but also mainly in mid/high series from leading mobo brands.

It's the first time AMD released a microcode for new CPUs much before the CPU premiere. Every time they released CPUs for existing motherboards, they provided microcode to their partners too late. In the end, large companies like ASUS or Gigabyte could provide it on time for the fresh batches. All others could not, or they updated it only in some of the most popular models. There were a lot of problems with cheaper MSI motherboards. I was also talking with the ASRock support manager, and he couldn't understand why AMD each time sends them microcode 2-3 weeks before the premiere when they always have 20k+ motherboards in the warehouse for manual update, and the BIOS still has to be prepared. This was some time ago, and hopefully, now everything will be fine.

 

[mackerel]

In part that was why I mentioned "manufactured" date, since we don't know how long it takes to get from factory to final sale point, considering existing inventory too. It could sit in warehouses for who knows how long. Where I used to work used a date code on products that was offset from actual manufacture date by several months to allow for that, and not look "old" when it got to sales. If things moved fast, people noticed they can get things apparently from the future!

It is also why in part I'd hesitate to build a new gen CPU with old gen mobo, Intel or AMD. It would have been nice if the new chipset was available at the same time so people could buy those knowing for sure it'll be up to date.

 

[EarthDog]

I've also experienced success putting a new-gen chip in and updating it to a BIOS that 'officially' supports it. That is always worth a try. Granted, I surely wouldn't lean on that working, often even, but it hasn't been uncommon for me either (AMD and Intel).

 

[Woomack]

It is also why in part I'd hesitate to build a new gen CPU with old gen mobo, Intel or AMD. It would have been nice if the new chipset was available at the same time so people could buy those knowing for sure it'll be up to date.

We are exactly at the point where we choose old motherboards that may work fine or not with new CPUs and new ones with early product issues that can work fine or require a half year of BIOS updates. It's like picking the lesser evil. The second option usually seems like a better idea until we get something like ASUS Hero with the caps problem

This is also interesting - it's from the 9950X specs.



Why does the CPU have 28 PCIe lanes when 24 are usable? I'm not sure if it lacks the proper description or something else.
Also, X670/X670E have more usable PCIe lanes than new chipsets, but they only mention PCIe 4.0.

 

[EarthDog]

Anand's take on the delay... nothing really new. in it though...

AMD Delays Ryzen 9000 Launch 1 to 2 Weeks Due to Chip Quality Issues

www.anandtech.com

 

[mackerel]

We are exactly at the point where we choose old motherboards that may work fine or not with new CPUs and new ones with early product issues that can work fine or require a half year of BIOS updates. It's like picking the lesser evil. The second option usually seems like a better idea until we get something like ASUS Hero with the caps problem

Is that the one where someone fitted some caps backwards? I don't recall when it happened or what company/model.

How much of the problems will be for the mobo, and how much because of the CPU though? New CPU on old mobo might still have CPU related problems until it matures. Again, with flashback it isn't as bad as it used to be if buying new CPU with new old mobo. Obviously anyone upgrading will have old CPU to help transition.

Why does the CPU have 28 PCIe lanes when 24 are usable? I'm not sure if it lacks the proper description or something else.

AMD uses 4 PCIe lanes for data transport between CPU and chipset. So those lanes are technically present on CPU but are never user accessible.

 

[MisterEd]

Original launch date for Ryzen 9000 CPUs:
Ryzen 5 9600X, Ryzen 7 9700X, Ryzen 9 9900X, Ryzen 9 9950X: July 31, 2024

New launch date for Ryzen 9000 CPUs:
Ryzen 5 9600X, Ryzen 7 9700X: August 8, 2024
Ryzen 9 9900X, Ryzen 9 9950X: August 15, 2024

 

[Woomack]

Is that the one where someone fitted some caps backwards? I don't recall when it happened or what company/model.

How much of the problems will be for the mobo, and how much because of the CPU though? New CPU on old mobo might still have CPU related problems until it matures. Again, with flashback it isn't as bad as it used to be if buying new CPU with new old mobo. Obviously anyone upgrading will have old CPU to help transition.

Yes, it was with backward caps. There were other issues, like a Gigabyte batch with a faulty power design (surprisingly, they were replacing them), a special ASUS series with the wrong print (not a bit of an issue, but for fans, it means return/replace), and some more. Most issues don't affect many users, and about some, no one makes a noise on the web. It still happens in every new chipset generation, and as it was said many times, we are beta testers. It shouldn't work this way, but I guess it won't improve. With so high prices, they shouldn't save on internal tests. Samples were available for long months, and AMD delivered the first retail batch for reviewers and stores with some issues. This is just weird. I'm not even sure if there is a problem with CPUs as it can be with something else, and they cover it to look good.

AMD officially said that the 9000 Ryzen is fully compatible with 600 series chipsets, so we assume it is. Now, everything is on the mobo manufacturers' side, whether they make good BIOS or not.

AMD uses 4 PCIe lanes for data transport between CPU and chipset. So those lanes are technically present on CPU but are never user accessible.

I forgot about that. So, it would still be good if AMD added a description, as it looks weird in the CPU's official specs.

 

[mackerel]

a special ASUS series with the wrong print (not a bit of an issue, but for fans, it means return/replace)

The Evangelion collab misprint! I loved that design but not Asus collab pricing for what was then an outgoing generation too.

Samples were available for long months, and AMD delivered the first retail batch for reviewers and stores with some issues. This is just weird. I'm not even sure if there is a problem with CPUs as it can be with something else, and they cover it to look good.

This claims it is SoC packaging. https://videocardz.com/newz/amd-off...ions-in-china-potential-delay-reason-surfaces
I know selected software devs got sampled long before reviewers, since AMD wanted best performance for those reviews.

I forgot about that. So, it would still be good if AMD added a description, as it looks weird in the CPU's official specs.

I forget exactly when they started doing that. Certainly at least since Zen 2, don't know if it was earlier Ryzen also. For a time it was a minor annoyance that AMD fans would use the total lanes as another way to demonstrate superiority over Intel of the time, when they had the same usable lanes. Since Zen 4 I think AMD do now have more usable CPU connected lanes.

 

[]-[itman]

The Evangelion collab misprint! I loved that design but not Asus collab pricing for what was then an outgoing generation too.


This claims it is SoC packaging. https://videocardz.com/newz/amd-off...ions-in-china-potential-delay-reason-surfaces
I know selected software devs got sampled long before reviewers, since AMD wanted best performance for those reviews.


I forget exactly when they started doing that. Certainly at least since Zen 2, don't know if it was earlier Ryzen also. For a time it was a minor annoyance that AMD fans would use the total lanes as another way to demonstrate superiority over Intel of the time, when they had the same usable lanes. Since Zen 4 I think AMD do now have more usable CPU connected lanes.

Seems that the tweet about the SoC packaging being the issue has been deleted. It's possible that some CPUs were damaged during packaging and they somehow slipped through the QA testing and AMD isn't sure which ones were and weren't tested, so they are recalling and sending out new ones, but I don't think anyone outside of AMD knows what actually happened other than what the AMD rep said.

 

[Pvee]

I'm not a gamer other than MS FLight Simulator and that is because I ran a KC-97-g, FLight Simulator in 1967-1968. The Simulator I ran used vacuum tubes and it was an analog computer. It put out so much heat we had a large air conditioner in the room. It did the Navigation, ILS landings and had the noises and vibrations but the cockpit did not move like the newer ones. I got to fly a C-17 Simulator a couple years ago and it was awesome. I worked on large Mainframe computers as a field engineer from 1968 -1990 and then I was a data communications network planner.
All of that to say I really did not get interested in home computers till the 1990 era. I had a Tandy 1000 and they wanted 800.00 for a 20 gig hdd. and I bought one..
Never got serious about building PC's for myself and others until about 2010. Since then, my builds were usually middle of the road nice PC's that weren't stressed much, didn't overheat etc.
As I think I remember, I never had a need to build a high performance PC for anyone until 2020 or so and then I built them to the customers specs.
Also there is a micro-center store near me, and AMD motherboard and cpu bundles were less expensive than Intel bundles so that was what I used unless a customer wanted something different.. Most people I built for just wanted a dependable home PC. Since then I have built over 200 PC's, including 54 Ryzen cpu builds.
I'm still building AM4 versions, but If I build anymore it will be a AM5. For my own use, lately they have been 8 core versions with 1050 or 1060 graphics cards.
I built ten ASROCK Desk Mini's, sold six of them and I use a couple for backup and hot spares. Most of them have Ryzen 5 5600G's and the Noctua am4 coolers.
It's been fun and I like to read about what you guys are doing. I'm 84 years old now, and it's a nice hobby for me.

 

[wade7575]

@Pvee Back in the day that must have been something very special for you to get to fly a Simulator back then,almost like it was for me as a kid we went to McDonalds every once and awhile so a a little kid for me it was something special and now a days it's no big deal for a kid when they to McDonalds because they get taken so often,it's almost the same way with computer stuff and other thing's everything is so far advanced it almost doesn't feel like a big deal anymore.

I know a lot of people with a lot stuff today that they haven't done they kind like the old saying been there done seen it before.

I often think how exciting it must have been when the first highway's were being built in America and when people first getting car's and traveling outside their home town how exciting it must have been for them and for us today it's nothing special at all sadly for a lot of people.