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Just a video card rant.

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trickson69

Member
Joined
Feb 15, 2018
Location
Right here.
I have been think of this for some time now.
Long ago I ran a Pair of HD5770's in Crossfire on a Q9650 the performance was amazing.
Since then I have been running single card setup because well hard to get money to buy any video cards. And to add insult to injury it would seem that video card manufactures are also playing games with the GPU's that "Get to be SLI" Now. I noticed that my GTX1050 is NO able to be put in SLI mode, No way to pair up the cards anymore unless you buy there top of the line flag ship GPU's that are WAY WAY WAY OVER priced thanks to the miners.
So I looked around and around and found on eBay a set of Radeon Sapphire HD 6790 Dual Graphics Cards w/ Crossfire bridge . ( ONLY ones I Could find in a decent price range, In fact in any range.) for $40.00 Dollars I plan to install them in the FX8300 system.
I really wanted to go with an SLI setup for my Ryzen system but not any more.
My question is other than money why is SLI and Crossfrie being tossed about yet still be an MAIN feature on all mother boards sold?
I haven't seen one kickazz Gaming MB with out the ability to do BOTH SLI and CROSSFIRE! Yet the video card companies have taken a pizz on us all the sheer greed and utter maniacal attitude about it all just angers me!
So I am going to try and get another AMD crossfire setup for cheep.
Now I know that 99% of you (like me) can only afford the cheepest cards out there so when we do buy a video card we tend to buy the low-mid range card and only ONE that is it. But wouldn't it be nice to be able to , I don't know say later on maybe a few years later add another card on to that same card and have a better all around setup? for less?
You know what I mean here? It sucks that for me to be able to do that I have to buy up a video card at the price of a used car!
So my goal is to scoop up some real deals ON eBay.
Anyone else find this kind of troubling? or do you just thing SLI/Crossfire is just a waste?
 

Alaric

New Member
Joined
Dec 4, 2011
Location
Satan's Colon, US
The lowest tier cards that will Crossfire are the R7 240. I think nVidia moved SLI to the 1070 and up with Pascal. Not all games will take advantage of SLI/Crossfire, and only having the vram of one of the cards started to be an issue when 1080p started becoming the norm, followed by high refresh rates. Vram quickly scaled up to 4, 6, and 8 GB on most cards, and GPUs outran games. Generally if you have one card with enough vram for even 1080p with 60 Hz and up refresh rates you don't need a second card because the GPU will likely handle it. One card solutions just work better. And nVidia didn't want SLI with less expensive cards to eat in to their higher tier sales. Then there's driver issues, not all motherboards that claimed compatibility delivered the experience expected, scaling was generally a surprise for each game (sometimes session). It just turned in to a hassle and then the mining boom hit. People couldn't afford one card, let alone multiple cards.

I was going to get a couple RX 480s when they came out and score me some 1080 level performance for the suggested retail of $400 total. Got my first 480, for $250. First hitch in the plan. Second hitch was a 480 wasn't even half of a 1080s performance. They scaled nice according to reviews, but I was now looking at having to be all in for $500 to trade blows, in some games, with a good GTX 1070. I got my HOF with that money instead and never looked back. Over twice the performance of the 480 in every benchmark I ran and it looked better. (That last part actually mattered at the time) My daughter got the 480 upgrade over her xBox and was thrilled. Might be fun to pick up a couple old 480 miners for benching, though.
 

EarthDog

Gulper Nozzle Co-Owner
Joined
Dec 15, 2008
Location
Buckeyes!
Where to start.... :)

1. It isnt only flagship gpus. The 2080 on up can sli. Flagship is the titan 2 levels above it. That said, NV does only allow SLI on their higher end cards now. Yep.

2. Multi GPU is really being phased out and not popular. I was never a big fan because scaling can range from none to almost 100% with averages of 50-70%. If I use 2 cards I want 2x performance, not 50% more or none. I wouldn't SLI/CFx on an FX cpu either... that CPU doesn't do a good job driving multiple GPUs at all. It didn't at the time and would be worse with anything modern at 1080p. Multi GPU needs a fast CPU to stretch it legs properly. Fx isnt that....even overclocked. You'll get even worse scaling with jt. Improvements will be had, indeed, but again it leaves performance on the table with a single card at 1080p...imagine two.. :(

3. Mobo mfg use it for marketing. There are also some that only support one or the other, or none. But it's just marketing...

4. I don't think adding a card years down the road is a good idea. Things change..maybe you have a single 4 GB card and 3 years later want to SLI.... but games are passing 4gb now so you're stuck. Also, 2x power, 2x heat output to manage, more noise, possibly needing a larger psu... it just isn't an attractive solution across multiple fronts.

5. Surely more than 1% people can afford bottom of the barrel cards...but many are in your position, indeed.

So, outside of perhaps those wanting 4k 120hz/fps...I never found cfx nor sli to be worth it. It has been a dieing tech for the past couple of years. For you... I wouldnt bother bc that fx CPU will really put a glass ceiling on things.
 
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Alaric

New Member
Joined
Dec 4, 2011
Location
Satan's Colon, US
So, outside of perhaps those wanting 4k 120hz/fps

Probably just wait for the RTX 3080 Ti for that. Then some mortgage paperwork, a quick trip to surgery to give up that extra kidney, and you're in business. LOL
 
OP
trickson69

trickson69

Member
Joined
Feb 15, 2018
Location
Right here.
I totally agree with you all.
This is what makes me so angry and quite frankly feeling ripped off and taken.
It is this "we will "F" the consumer with BS branding and fake meaningless crap that is far more expensive and will only serve to make money for us attitude".
I really wished consumers had more power because getting lied to and ripped off for decades seems a bit (Pardon me) "F'ed" up.
Guess that is why none of them are made in the USA? We actually have laws that are supposed to prevent manufactures from making false, fake and misleading claims about there products.
That's what we get when the label say's Made in China.
 

Alaric

New Member
Joined
Dec 4, 2011
Location
Satan's Colon, US
Part of the problem is the motherboard is only part of the equation. There's all the different cards and manufacturers, then there's the drivers, and finally the end user software (games, etc.). Not to mention the myriad of possible CPU/RAM combinations on top of the huge number of combination possibilities mentioned. And frankly, they're going to put more time and effort in to things that will appeal to the broadest consumer segment, like memory QVL, aesthetics, audio, and definitely RGB. LOL
 

EarthDog

Gulper Nozzle Co-Owner
Joined
Dec 15, 2008
Location
Buckeyes!
What is BS branding? What is fake meaningless crap?

What does China have to do with anything here???

Who is being lied to?
 

rdrash

Senior Member, Benching Team Member
Joined
Aug 6, 2003
I totally agree with you all.
This is what makes me so angry and quite frankly feeling ripped off and taken.
It is this "we will "F" the consumer with BS branding and fake meaningless crap that is far more expensive and will only serve to make money for us attitude".
I really wished consumers had more power because getting lied to and ripped off for decades seems a bit (Pardon me) "F'ed" up.
Guess that is why none of them are made in the USA? We actually have laws that are supposed to prevent manufactures from making false, fake and misleading claims about there products.
That's what we get when the label say's Made in China.

These manufacturing arrangements you refer to with your "made in china" statements are much more complicated then one would think at the on set. While I will agree we (USA) must be careful in our drafting of legislation to ensure we do not out source critical skills and technological advantages to potential adversaries (whatever country that may prove to be in the future) I do not subscribe to the falsehood that "outsourcing is bad for everyone in USA" .... ultimately consumers benefit greatly from most such arrangements. Simply enroll in an economics course and you may expand your understanding of such complex relationships...perhaps even change your thinking (wow, what a shock that might be to your ego). Anyways. I certainly don't have the energy nor the capacity to change your personal behaviors nor beliefs. I simply implore you to please do a bit more reading before making such statements or at least caveat your statements with a disclaimer that your words are only a reflection of your personal feelings.

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/m/milton-friedman.asp


https://fee.org/articles/outsourcing-makes-us-richer/


http://www.ncbfaa.org/Scripts/4Disa...?Action=CMS_Document&DocID=14050&MenuKey=pubs

maybe you won't agree with these links...that's ok and I won't begrudge you one way or another, my only desire is to highlight a different way to see the arrangements in context.....just so you can attempt to understand alternative points of view
 
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OP
trickson69

trickson69

Member
Joined
Feb 15, 2018
Location
Right here.
I get your point I know what you are saying.
I know the tech works as it "should" but it's marketing and things that big companies do to entice us to buy and fall short of expectations in the end user area.
I personally like the SLI/Crossfire concept and had run it in the past with 2 HD5870's Really that was great, but only 50%-60% increase in performance isn't as good as say one card that can beat it sure.
I really like the concept and in some cases it is killer to have. Wish they would improve it rather than side step it.
 

rdrash

Senior Member, Benching Team Member
Joined
Aug 6, 2003
I get your point I know what you are saying.
I know the tech works as it "should" but it's marketing and things that big companies do to entice us to buy and fall short of expectations in the end user area.
I personally like the SLI/Crossfire concept and had run it in the past with 2 HD5870's Really that was great, but only 50%-60% increase in performance isn't as good as say one card that can beat it sure.
I really like the concept and in some cases it is killer to have. Wish they would improve it rather than side step it.

coolio trickson69...... no problem brother. Yeah MARKETING can be an evil empire unto itself.... I have tales that I can not tell in that fashion due to my personal bond with persons once and perhaps still employed in the industry as well as several NDAs (though quite dated but possibly still enforceable). I do agree with the underlying premise that "many things once promised are not actualized anymore" .... slippery slope I reckon, a little lie gone unnoticed balloons into a huge campaign founded on that miss-truth... heck I've been a victim myself and I too enjoyed extreme gains from multiple 5870x cards in a single rig, leading to some of my most prominent (at that time) extreme overclocking scores and getting me in a position to reap great personal benefit ... never to really be attained again (success is often fleeting in these endeavors) .. but I rode the wave as far it would take me and I ended bitter...bitter ...bitter. Cursing many who would have assisted me and doubting my own self in these quests for extreme overclocking glory... but that is my story..... I ultimately distanced myself from the very folks who helped me mature in my overclocking prowess to attain that fleeting level of awesomeness... I burned bridges and lost true friends along the way... MARKETING can do that, not just to companies/products...but also to individuals who can wander far away from who they once were and become lost ...like me
 
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OP
trickson69

trickson69

Member
Joined
Feb 15, 2018
Location
Right here.
coolio trickson69...... no problem brother. Yeah MARKETING can be an evil empire unto itself.... I have tales that I can not tell in that fashion due to my personal bond with persons once and perhaps still employed in the industry as well as several NDAs (though quite dated but possibly still enforceable). I do agree with the underlying premise that "many things once promised are not actualized anymore" .... slippery slope I reckon, a little lie gone unnoticed balloons into a huge campaign founded on that miss-truth... heck I've been a victim myself and I too enjoyed extreme gains from multiple 5870x cards in a single rig, leading to some of my most prominent (at that time) extreme overclocking scores and getting me in a position to reap great personal benefit ... never to really be attained again (success is often fleeting in these endeavors) .. but I rode the wave as far it would take me and I ended bitter...bitter ...bitter. Cursing many who would have assisted me and doubting my own self in these quests for extreme overclocking glory... but that is my story..... I ultimately distanced myself from the very folks who helped me mature in my overclocking prowess to attain that fleeting level of awesomeness... I burned bridges and lost true friends along the way... MARKETING can do that, not just to companies/products...but also to individuals who can wander far away from who they once were and become lost ...like me

Totally! See you get it! This is just what I am talking about!
THANK YOU!
SOMEONE WHO UNDERSTANDS!!!