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Bustos

Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2012
Location
KS, USA
Hello guys! Another lurker seeking advice. You guys may have a simple answer for a question I've put too much thought into.

My GPU has died on me in my 1st build (see sig) which was built from the collective advice of the awesome people here at Overclockers. I wondered how well my current rig would do with the new cards out there, more specifically the RX 580 8GB. I started to wonder if it would be better for me to just build another computer. TBH, I had been tinkering with the thought of reducing my current build into mATX form but the pragmatic side of me said I'm just wasting money as I would get no real value out of it. So now I am shamelessly using the GPU's death as an excuse to scratch that itch. However, that pragmatic side of me is giving me dirty looks so, I've come to ask the experts once again for advice. Should I just get a new GPU card (and replace parts as they die) or should I do a new build from scratch?

Basic Information:
I have 2 1080p monitors. While I am in love with 4k monitors until these 2 die on me, that's what I am sticking with. Besides usual mainstream PC work, I open lots of programs and leave them open, a web tab *****, leave my computer on 24/7, turning off only to restart or when I am going to be away for longer than a day, and I mainly play SC2 and LOL. I do have a few old Steam games which the ol' 7970 had no trouble handling at maxed or near maxed settings. Sins of the Solar Empire: Rebellion does get a bit slow going late game. Having said that, been waiting on a Dark Souls IV so I am looking at Sekiro - Shadows Die Twice and Battlefleet Gothic Armada II (which is on sale in Steam rn, btw).

I live 15 minutes away from a Micro Center. Yeah baby, yeah! GPU alone or a whole build, I plan to get everything from there. Too bad PCPartPicker doesn't include Micro Center as a storefront for parts. That would make figuring out inventory availability and pricing much easier.

Budget is ~$1k if I do the new build route and I have the peripherals. Below is a build I put together on PCPartPicker. I've seen prebuilts with similar specs around the same price point so I also wonder if that's the better way to go.

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: AMD - Ryzen 5 2600 3.4 GHz 6-Core Processor ($164.89 @ OutletPC)
I've considered the Ryzen 3 2200G as a cheaper option as I wasn't sure I'd take advantage of the Ryzen 5's processing power. Plan to use stock coolers for either if the Hyper 212 EVO doesn't fit inside the mATX case. Water cooling has always scared me. Water and electronics don't mix, man! :p

Motherboard: MSI - B450M GAMING PLUS Micro ATX AM4 Motherboard ($79.99 @ Amazon)
Do I need this "gaming" mobo? Mobos at lower price points didn't have good reviews. I only need two ram slots and 3.0 USB ports. I keep sitting on the fence whether to have a 2nd PCI slot for a wifi card down the line.

Memory: G.Skill - Flare X 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) DDR4-2400 Memory ($79.89 @ OutletPC)
I was actually looking at 2133 speeds but these G.Skills 2400s were at the same price point.

Storage: Samsung - 860 Evo 500 GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($77.89 @ OutletPC)
This will be the only storage I need. I have a 1TB HDD, 6+ years later and I'm at 251GB. I do not store a lot of media on my computer and rely on hardcopies (paper, flash drive), cloud, or DTC services. Game-wise, I'm that guy that only plays a few games but PLAYS those few games. I did consider a M2 SSD but I do not have a need for the higher read/write speed at the higher price points.

Video Card: Sapphire - Radeon RX 580 8 GB PULSE Video Card ($189.99 @ Newegg)
After dropping nearly $400 on the 7970 6 yrs ago, this card is cheap to me. Ha. Any opinions on PowerColor branded cards? Micro Center has a line of their RX 580 8 GB cards going for $179.99. Based on my needs though, I felt this card might be a bit too much but nothing wrong with extra GBs. :cool:

Case: Cooler Master - N200 MicroATX Mini Tower Case ($47.53 @ Amazon)
I wanted a case that was still a tower. My desk has a 'tower cabinet' to hold a desktop computer. I wanted an accessible 5.25 bay for the CD/DVD drive I have in my current build and 1, 2.5 tray for the SSD. No side window needed since it will be out of sight. I did want to improve on the cable management side as it's a rats nest in this Line case. While I could keep the desktop computer on the desktop ;) it just looks cleaner without it. It also keeps it out of reach of my 4 and 3 yr olds.
TBH, the mid tower Line case I already have vs a mATX case would really make no difference. My tower can fit mATX boards, so I could shave off ~$50 there. I just figured mATX mobo so mATX case. :shrug: I could just replace all the fans instead. :D

Power Supply: EVGA - SuperNOVA G3 550 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply ($79.99 @ Amazon)
Since my 750W is 6 years old, I wasn't sure if it was a good idea to bring it over to the new build or get a new PSU. It's warrantied for 7 years. I should at least get another year out of it. How far do you guys push the lifespan of your PSUs? I figured I should get a few more years out of it as this baby has been coasting well under 750W. This build will draw ~311W according to PCPartPicker. The new PSU doesn't need to be a powerhouse so 550W to give it some breathing room. I got the 750W in my first build because I thought I'd get a second, cheaper 7970 card as new GPUs came out but then bitcoin mining became a thing.

Operating System: Microsoft - Windows 10 Home OEM 64-bit ($99.49 @ SuperBiiz)
New mobo = new licence, amiright?

Total: $819.66
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2019-03-26 14:48 EDT-0400

Thanks in advance for your time and advice.
 

Johan45

Benching Team Leader Super Moderator
Joined
Dec 19, 2012
Do you want mATX PCPP you have a B350 ATX board?

I would go with the 2600X if you're in a tight case (mATX) and leave it stock to benefit from the boost clocks.
Go with a B450 or X470 board just because it's got some benefits and you'll stay in budget
I would also bump the memory to FlareX 3200 CL16-18-18 not much more and 3200 is the sweet spot for AMD it'll benefit from 3200 over the 2400
 
Last edited:

trents

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 27, 2008
Hello guys! Another lurker seeking advice. You guys may have a simple answer for a question I've put too much thought into.

My GPU has died on me in my 1st build (see sig) which was built from the collective advice of the awesome people here at Overclockers. I wondered how well my current rig would do with the new cards out there, more specifically the RX 580 8GB. I started to wonder if it would be better for me to just build another computer. TBH, I had been tinkering with the thought of reducing my current build into mATX form but the pragmatic side of me said I'm just wasting money as I would get no real value out of it. So now I am shamelessly using the GPU's death as an excuse to scratch that itch. However, that pragmatic side of me is giving me dirty looks so, I've come to ask the experts once again for advice. Should I just get a new GPU card (and replace parts as they die) or should I do a new build from scratch?

Basic Information:
I have 2 1080p monitors. While I am in love with 4k monitors until these 2 die on me, that's what I am sticking with. Besides usual mainstream PC work, I open lots of programs and leave them open, a web tab *****, leave my computer on 24/7, turning off only to restart or when I am going to be away for longer than a day, and I mainly play SC2 and LOL. I do have a few old Steam games which the ol' 7970 had no trouble handling at maxed or near maxed settings. Sins of the Solar Empire: Rebellion does get a bit slow going late game. Having said that, been waiting on a Dark Souls IV so I am looking at Sekiro - Shadows Die Twice and Battlefleet Gothic Armada II (which is on sale in Steam rn, btw).

I live 15 minutes away from a Micro Center. Yeah baby, yeah! GPU alone or a whole build, I plan to get everything from there. Too bad PCPartPicker doesn't include Micro Center as a storefront for parts. That would make figuring out inventory availability and pricing much easier.

Budget is ~$1k if I do the new build route and I have the peripherals. Below is a build I put together on PCPartPicker. I've seen prebuilts with similar specs around the same price point so I also wonder if that's the better way to go.

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: AMD - Ryzen 5 2600 3.4 GHz 6-Core Processor ($164.89 @ OutletPC)
I've considered the Ryzen 3 2200G as a cheaper option as I wasn't sure I'd take advantage of the Ryzen 5's processing power. Plan to use stock coolers for either if the Hyper 212 EVO doesn't fit inside the mATX case. Water cooling has always scared me. Water and electronics don't mix, man! :p

Motherboard: MSI - B450M GAMING PLUS Micro ATX AM4 Motherboard ($79.99 @ Amazon)
Do I need this "gaming" mobo? Mobos at lower price points didn't have good reviews. I only need two ram slots and 3.0 USB ports. I keep sitting on the fence whether to have a 2nd PCI slot for a wifi card down the line.

Memory: G.Skill - Flare X 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) DDR4-2400 Memory ($79.89 @ OutletPC)
I was actually looking at 2133 speeds but these G.Skills 2400s were at the same price point.

Storage: Samsung - 860 Evo 500 GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($77.89 @ OutletPC)
This will be the only storage I need. I have a 1TB HDD, 6+ years later and I'm at 251GB. I do not store a lot of media on my computer and rely on hardcopies (paper, flash drive), cloud, or DTC services. Game-wise, I'm that guy that only plays a few games but PLAYS those few games. I did consider a M2 SSD but I do not have a need for the higher read/write speed at the higher price points.

Video Card: Sapphire - Radeon RX 580 8 GB PULSE Video Card ($189.99 @ Newegg)
After dropping nearly $400 on the 7970 6 yrs ago, this card is cheap to me. Ha. Any opinions on PowerColor branded cards? Micro Center has a line of their RX 580 8 GB cards going for $179.99. Based on my needs though, I felt this card might be a bit too much but nothing wrong with extra GBs. :cool:

Case: Cooler Master - N200 MicroATX Mini Tower Case ($47.53 @ Amazon)
I wanted a case that was still a tower. My desk has a 'tower cabinet' to hold a desktop computer. I wanted an accessible 5.25 bay for the CD/DVD drive I have in my current build and 1, 2.5 tray for the SSD. No side window needed since it will be out of sight. I did want to improve on the cable management side as it's a rats nest in this Line case. While I could keep the desktop computer on the desktop ;) it just looks cleaner without it. It also keeps it out of reach of my 4 and 3 yr olds.
TBH, the mid tower Line case I already have vs a mATX case would really make no difference. My tower can fit mATX boards, so I could shave off ~$50 there. I just figured mATX mobo so mATX case. :shrug: I could just replace all the fans instead. :D

Power Supply: EVGA - SuperNOVA G3 550 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply ($79.99 @ Amazon)
Since my 750W is 6 years old, I wasn't sure if it was a good idea to bring it over to the new build or get a new PSU. It's warrantied for 7 years. I should at least get another year out of it. How far do you guys push the lifespan of your PSUs? I figured I should get a few more years out of it as this baby has been coasting well under 750W. This build will draw ~311W according to PCPartPicker. The new PSU doesn't need to be a powerhouse so 550W to give it some breathing room. I got the 750W in my first build because I thought I'd get a second, cheaper 7970 card as new GPUs came out but then bitcoin mining became a thing.

Operating System: Microsoft - Windows 10 Home OEM 64-bit ($99.49 @ SuperBiiz)
New mobo = new licence, amiright?


Total: $819.66
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2019-03-26 14:48 EDT-0400

Thanks in advance for your time and advice.


You can pick up an OEM Windows 10 Pro key here for around $15. Many of us use this site and I don't know of anyone having had a problem activating the software. This site has been up and running for some time and MS has not seen fit to shut it down. Seems to be legit. Then you could just make your own installer using MS's Media Creation Tool website. Yes, you are correct in that you cannot use your existing Widows license on a new motherboard.

https://www.urcdkeys.com/
 

Zerileous

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 21, 2002
Basically what Johan45 said. If you want to do an all core manual overclock the 2600 is fine, but the 2600X is better. I would try to get a slightly nicer motherboard as well. Especially if you go for the X CPU, look for a motherboard that supports offset voltage. This will let the CPU overclock itself higher in most cases. You'll have to look at individual reviews to find that, but it will be worth it. Here is a basic breakdown of B450 motherboards, and you can look at specific reviews from there.
 

trents

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 27, 2008
Why would an offset voltage parameter help with a higher CPU overclock? My understanding of offset voltage is that it just allows the CPU to run with lower voltage when not loaded. Is this a different kind of offset voltage?
 

Zerileous

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 21, 2002
Not a higher manual overclock, but it allows the CPU to boost higher by allowing more cores to reach higher clocks without exceeding maximum current. Only matters for the X CPUs. I've been using -0.05V. Reference this thread. It is also discussed in this video iirc, but I don't have a time stamp, and it's a lot to go through.
 
OP
Bustos

Bustos

Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2012
Location
KS, USA
I see confusion on my Mobo and I think I know why. Listed in my first post is the MSI B450M Gaming Plus which is the mATX version of the MSI 450 Gaming Plus. I read MSI updated their BIOs to include offset voltage.

I’ll look into the X CPUs, the 3200 RAM, and better a mATX Mobo.

That urcdkeys site looks a bit sketchy. :lol:

Thanks for the advice so far. So no votes for just upgrading the card and replace parts as I need them?
 

Johan45

Benching Team Leader Super Moderator
Joined
Dec 19, 2012
Thanks for the advice so far. So no votes for just upgrading the card and replace parts as I need them?

The card is an easy upgrade but the system is an all or nothing situation IMO. A better CPU in the z77 board isn't going to do much and if changing you may as well go modern and make the jump to DDR4. Will it keep gaming for a year or more, IMO yes a better cooler and you could squeez a bit more spped out of it as well, so you could just take that budget and buy a better card. Wait a year or so let the budget grow again and then replace the whole system should leave you more choices as Zen2 is coming so is Intel 10 nm just makes for more options..
 
OP
Bustos

Bustos

Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2012
Location
KS, USA
Updated.

Updated list for the build. Removed mATX case. Changed CPU, Mobo, RAM, GPU, and PSU. Asus - TUF B450M-PLUS GAMING is the best mATX mobo they have in stock at my Micro Center. I went with the Corsair - Vengeance LPX RAM because the Flare X are not in stock but same speed and timings. They have Flare X Series for ~$200, 3200 and 14-14-14 timings. MSI GPU due to availability, the fact it has 2 HMDI ports, and I am unsure of PowerColor branded GPUs. Corsair RMx PSU is better rated.

Regarding mATX mobos vs ATX mobos, I can see that the ATX mobos come with extras compare to mATX. The main reason I am choosing a mATX mobo is because I do not need all the features of full ATX mobo and do not want to spend money on features I will not use. Are mATX mobo versions of their ATX counterparts the same quality but cheaper?

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: AMD - Ryzen 5 2600X 3.6 GHz 6-Core Processor ($184.99 @ Newegg)
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master - Hyper 212 EVO 82.9 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler ($0.00)
Motherboard: Asus - TUF B450M-PLUS GAMING Micro ATX AM4 Motherboard ($94.89 @ OutletPC)
Memory: Corsair - Vengeance LPX 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) DDR4-3200 Memory ($119.99 @ Corsair)
Storage: Samsung - 860 Evo 500 GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($77.89 @ OutletPC)
Video Card: MSI - Radeon RX 580 8 GB ARMOR OC Video Card ($215.99 @ Amazon)
Case: Rosewill - Line ATX Mid Tower Case ($0.00)
Power Supply: Corsair - RMx (2018) 550 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply ($83.98 @ Newegg)
Optical Drive: HP - 1270i DVD/CD Writer ($0.00)
Operating System: Microsoft - Windows 10 Home OEM 64-bit ($99.49 @ SuperBiiz)
Monitor: Asus - VS247H-P 23.6" 1920x1080 Monitor ($0.00)
Monitor: Asus - VS247H-P 23.6" 1920x1080 Monitor ($0.00)
Total: $877.22
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2019-03-27 17:50 EDT-0400
 

ocruf2

New Member
Joined
Mar 27, 2019
i think its about time for a system upgrade. if you want to save on the budget, a 1600/1700 gets you into am4 pretty cheaply (both on sale at microcenter currently!) and are both large upgrades over your current cpu while leaving a good upgrade path when needed in the next 2 years or so.

if you have the budget, stick with the 2600x, but definitely bump your ram up to a faster speed. 2400 is going to cost you some performance for not a lot of cost savings over 3000mhz or 3200mhz.
 

Zerileous

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 21, 2002
please check either the memory manufacturer or the motherboard QVL for compatible memory. Ryzens are picky. This goes double for the first generation 1XXX CPU's if you go that route. And yes 3200MHz seems to be a sweet spot. Much more than that you're approaching the limits of the IMC for some chips. (e.g. mine will benchmark at 4.4GHz running 4 cores only with memory up to 3200MHz, but I haven't been able to exceed that stably at the higher clock speeds. Of course there is always room for tweaking / improvement, so this isn't absolute).
 
OP
Bustos

Bustos

Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2012
Location
KS, USA
It looks like I’ll get the mobo/cpu from Micro Center to take advantage of their bundle deal.

When I reviewing some of the mobo/cpu bundles, I figured a ballpark of $300 to spend. This bundle caught my eye for a 2700x at $320. I know the mobo is on the low end. Wurf it for someone who’s just going to ‘autoclock’ with PBO?

https://www.microcenter.com/product...-gigabyte-b450m-ds3h-cpu---motherboard-bundle

Or should I stick with a 2600x and look for a bundle with a better mobo in the same price range?
 

trents

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 27, 2008
If by "autoclock" you mean run the CPU at stock frequencies and voltages that motherboard should be fine. If by "autoclock" you mean use some bios automatic "overclocking" feature it may not give you a very high overclock. Small heat sink on the VRM so you may want to consider setting an extra fan somewhere to blow air across it if you are going to overclock. Otherwise, it should be serviceable. The 2700x is probably pushed pretty close to it's limit from the factory anyway so not as much to gain from overclocking it as there would be from the 2700.
 

EarthDog

Gulper Nozzle Co-Owner
Joined
Dec 15, 2008
Location
Buckeyes!
Adding to this ^^...'auto' overclocking also tends to over volt in favor of stability. If overclocking that CPU, first, do it manually... second, consider a better board with better power delivery. With proper cooling, both the 2700 and 2700x will reach around 4.1 GHz.
 
OP
Bustos

Bustos

Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2012
Location
KS, USA
I may be misunderstanding how PBO (Precision Boost Overdrive) works. In the bios for ryzen x chips, there is a function called PBO that you can enable that will, conditions permitting, push beyond stock speeds as needed. It doesn’t push it very far and doesn’t keep it there. ‘Auto clocking’ is the best way I could describe it.

And that board does look potato that’s why I was concerned about that bundle and wanted to ask for your insights.
 

trents

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 27, 2008
ED, what do you mean by "potato"? New term in this context for me.