- Joined
- Sep 27, 2009
- Location
- MS Gulf Coast
I don't know if I'm putting this in the right subforum, but here it goes.
Before I begin my system specs:
AMD Phenom II X4 965 BE (AC MX-2 Thermal paste/Scythe Big Shuriken heatsink)
Biostar TA790GX A3+ Motherboard
4GB DDR3 PC3-10600 G.Skill RAM (2GB x 2 sticks)
Diamond Multimedia Radeon HD 5770 1GB
Western Digital SATA II Caviar Black 640GB HDD 32MB Cache (Primary partition)
Western Digital SATA II Caviar Blue 320GB HDD 16MB Cache (Secondary partition/Storage Device)
Windows 7 x64 SP1 (Installed only on Caviar Black 640GB)
Antec Earthwatts 650W PSU
I've been experiencing the most mind boggling and frustrating comp problem and I really need the community's help so if anyone has any insight please let me know. I've tried everything I can think of, I've contacted tech supports for different hardware vendors and have tried all likely solutions I could find on the net unsuccessfully so here I am pleading to you all for help.
So here it goes. I do have to give a bit of a backstory before I can dive into the heart of the matter (I apologize) since the info might be relevant. My previous build was a Phenom II X2 550 BE with a GeForce GTS 250 and my system was running fine. The only relevant upgrades I bought were the 965 and the Radeon HD 5770 (I did buy a keyboard and some speakers, but I know the problem I'm having is not related to peripheral devices) and everything else stayed the same.
Something to note is ever since I've bought my Antec PSU it has always made a loud periodic clicking noise, like a sudden "clunk", maybe every thirty minutes or every two hours (not sure on the intervals since I've never timed it), but despite this my system has always worked. I rarely got BSODs, freezes, or crashes and most of the time if I did have an error it was usually something minor such as an app hanging. All in all my system ran fine when I was running the 550.
When I did install the new 965 cpu and the radeon 5770 I also did a clean of Windows by deleting the partition on the caviar black, creating a new one, and formatting it. I didn't want take the chance of some obscure driver/software error in my previous installation creating a conflict with the new hardware.
After installing the upgrades the system ran fine for a week or so, but then I started getting random reboots where the system would unexpectedly restart itself. Looking into event viewer the log lists it as a "Source: Kernel-power Event ID 41 Task Category (63)" critical error. I've never heard of this particular issue before I started experiencing it.
Before I continue here's a look at the code:
Log Name: System
Source: Kernel-Power Logged: 5/20/2011 9:25:17 PM
Event ID: 41 Task Catgory: (63)
Level: Critical Keywords: (2)
User: SYSTEM Computer: Dre-PC
OpCode: Info
The system has rebooted without cleanly shutting down first. This error could be caused if the system stopped responding, crashed, or lost power unexpectedly.
- <Event xmlns="http://schemas.microsoft.com/win/2004/08/events/event">
- <System>
<Provider Name="Microsoft-Windows-Kernel-Power" Guid="{331C3B3A-2005-44C2-AC5E-77220C37D6B4}" />
<EventID>41</EventID>
<Version>2</Version>
<Level>1</Level>
<Task>63</Task>
<Opcode>0</Opcode>
<Keywords>0x8000000000000002</Keywords>
<TimeCreated SystemTime="2011-05-02T22:32:46.956813000Z" />
<EventRecordID>7346</EventRecordID>
<Correlation />
<Execution ProcessID="4" ThreadID="8" />
<Channel>System</Channel>
<Computer>Dre-PC</Computer>
<Security UserID="S-1-5-18" />
</System>
- <EventData>
<Data Name="BugcheckCode">0</Data>
<Data Name="BugcheckParameter1">0x0</Data>
<Data Name="BugcheckParameter2">0x0</Data>
<Data Name="BugcheckParameter3">0x0</Data>
<Data Name="BugcheckParameter4">0x0</Data>
<Data Name="SleepInProgress">false</Data>
<Data Name="PowerButtonTimestamp">0</Data>
</EventData>
</Event>
The problem occurs infrequently and it's impossible to say when it might reoccur because sometimes I can run my pc for hours on end for days without issue and then it happens.
I have scoured the net and this seems to be a widespread issue, but it also has to be one of the worst errors to troubleshoot because the symptoms are as diverse as the root issues which might be causing the error. Some people experience BSODs while others have hard hangs or have problems powering their system down properly. Pinpointing the root issue has proven to be damn near impossible for various reasons and it's much like a doctor treating a disease except every patient with the same disease exhibits different symptoms and possibly has a different virus (metaphorically speaking) which is making them sick. How do you treat something like that?
Microsoft has a knowledgebase on this issue, but it isn't helpful at all:
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/2028504
One of the things the MS kb points out as a possible cause is overheating, such as when you install a new cpu, but I've already thought of this. My cpu temps are always under control and I leave the side panel to my pc open so it can operate at the ambient room temperature (I run the AC in the house a lot during the summer). I've checked the heatsink to make it is installed properly and it's tightly mounted to the cpu retension bracket on the motherboard.
What happens when I experience one of these kernel-power reboots? I'll be using the computer, usually when the cpu is under light load like surfing the web, and I'll suddenly be staring at a black monitor screen. Before I know it the computer has already started to reboot itself. That's one of the weird circumstances surrounding the error is it never happens when the cpu is under heavy load like when I'm gaming for instance. In fact I can game for hours without problem; these kernel-power reboots happen infrequently when the cpu is under light load and now that I think about it the past four reboots in the last week and a half have happened when I was surfing the web. I know my cpu shouldn't be overheating when I'm surfng the web so really the overheating cause shouldn't apply in my case.
There are two big scenarios which make this so frustrating to troubleshoot:
[1] A minidump is never created when it happens. This limits my ability to analyze the circumstances surrounding the error.
[2] There isn't a lot of info on the net. Sure, the net is flooded with tons of posts with people having similar event id 41 problems for various reasons, but there are very few genuine solutions and I haven't found one that works yet.
I've contact AMD tech support and they are pretty much clueless. The tech at Antec has been a little more helpful and he thinks it might be the psu due to the periodic clicking noise. The psu should only click during power on/off, but never during normal operation so he suspects a faulty relay switch in the psu. Of course when I was running the 550 with the GeForce 250 the psu clicked back then and I never had one of these kernel-power reboots so why would the psu be an issue now?
A lot of people speculate that if the "bugcheckcode" is blank or has a value of 0 then it's due to faulty hardware. This makes sense since in my previous build I never had these event id 41 errors and this started happening only after I installed the upgrades so logically it's easy to deduce that one of the new components must be the culprit. The 965 was bought brand new, sealed in the box and while I did get the radeon 5770 used off of ebay I haven't had an issue with it yet. I've ran the cpu and the gpu both through diagnostics and haven't turned up anything.
Steps I have taken to troubleshoot this issue:
Checked the system for malware - some user on a forum suggested that there are viruses which can cause this error so I've done a full system scan with Microsoft Security Essentials and Trend Micro's housecall...nothing, no infections.
Checked Windows for errors - I've done the usual clean boot as well as safe mode. I've tried the sfc /scannow and windows resource protection didn't find any integrity violations. I've also done chkdsk on both of my hdd's as well as putting both drives though WD's Data Lifeguard Tools and HD Tune. Nothing.
Verfied drivers are up to date - according to someone the most common cause for an event id 41 is bad device drivers. All of my drivers are current*.
Diagnosed the RAM - Supposedly the most common faulty hardware for this error is bad ram so I did a Memtest86+ for twelve hours. No errors.
Updated the bios - Someone suggested that an event id 41 is a stepping error in the cpu and recommended upgrading the bios. Flashed the bios yesterday loading optimal defaults and still got a reboot today. Oddly enough the bios version is exactly the same after the flashing and I swear the only thing different is the build date.
Disabled devices in conflict - One user on another forum said he discovered that he had two audio drivers on the same internal high definition audio bus and he resolved his kernel-power issue by disabling one of them. Looking into device manager I found out that I also had two audio drivers on the same bus. One is the Realtek high definition audio (the integrated onboard audio chip) and the other is an AMD HDMI high definition audio which is included with the catalyst driver suite. Well, I don't use HDMI audio so I disabled the AMD audio driver and this seemed to work for a while, but it wasn't long before the reboots started happening again.
*As another user on the net stated that another big cause for this problem is incompatibility of older drivers. Well, my realtek audio driver is the most current one off of windows update, but realtek has released a newer driver on their website. I just installed the latest realtek audio driver tonight and still waiting to see if this work.
Finally, someone else stated they resolved their similar issue by bumping up their MCP, NB, and DRAM voltages slightly. I just went into the bios tonight and bumped all the voltages (Vcore, memory over voltage, nb) up a notch.
If I get another reboot in the next day or so I'm frankly out of ideas. I don't know what to do other than start RMA'ing parts and I was thinking it might be good to start off with the psu and the radeon first if I go down that route.
I'm still waiting to see if the latest realtek driver and the voltage increase will work and check whether or not the system will reboot in the next day or so, but in the meantime does anyone have any insight or ideas that may help me out?
I strongly encourage and appreciate all feedback cuz I'm about to lose my mind over this problem.
Before I begin my system specs:
AMD Phenom II X4 965 BE (AC MX-2 Thermal paste/Scythe Big Shuriken heatsink)
Biostar TA790GX A3+ Motherboard
4GB DDR3 PC3-10600 G.Skill RAM (2GB x 2 sticks)
Diamond Multimedia Radeon HD 5770 1GB
Western Digital SATA II Caviar Black 640GB HDD 32MB Cache (Primary partition)
Western Digital SATA II Caviar Blue 320GB HDD 16MB Cache (Secondary partition/Storage Device)
Windows 7 x64 SP1 (Installed only on Caviar Black 640GB)
Antec Earthwatts 650W PSU
I've been experiencing the most mind boggling and frustrating comp problem and I really need the community's help so if anyone has any insight please let me know. I've tried everything I can think of, I've contacted tech supports for different hardware vendors and have tried all likely solutions I could find on the net unsuccessfully so here I am pleading to you all for help.
So here it goes. I do have to give a bit of a backstory before I can dive into the heart of the matter (I apologize) since the info might be relevant. My previous build was a Phenom II X2 550 BE with a GeForce GTS 250 and my system was running fine. The only relevant upgrades I bought were the 965 and the Radeon HD 5770 (I did buy a keyboard and some speakers, but I know the problem I'm having is not related to peripheral devices) and everything else stayed the same.
Something to note is ever since I've bought my Antec PSU it has always made a loud periodic clicking noise, like a sudden "clunk", maybe every thirty minutes or every two hours (not sure on the intervals since I've never timed it), but despite this my system has always worked. I rarely got BSODs, freezes, or crashes and most of the time if I did have an error it was usually something minor such as an app hanging. All in all my system ran fine when I was running the 550.
When I did install the new 965 cpu and the radeon 5770 I also did a clean of Windows by deleting the partition on the caviar black, creating a new one, and formatting it. I didn't want take the chance of some obscure driver/software error in my previous installation creating a conflict with the new hardware.
After installing the upgrades the system ran fine for a week or so, but then I started getting random reboots where the system would unexpectedly restart itself. Looking into event viewer the log lists it as a "Source: Kernel-power Event ID 41 Task Category (63)" critical error. I've never heard of this particular issue before I started experiencing it.
Before I continue here's a look at the code:
Log Name: System
Source: Kernel-Power Logged: 5/20/2011 9:25:17 PM
Event ID: 41 Task Catgory: (63)
Level: Critical Keywords: (2)
User: SYSTEM Computer: Dre-PC
OpCode: Info
The system has rebooted without cleanly shutting down first. This error could be caused if the system stopped responding, crashed, or lost power unexpectedly.
- <Event xmlns="http://schemas.microsoft.com/win/2004/08/events/event">
- <System>
<Provider Name="Microsoft-Windows-Kernel-Power" Guid="{331C3B3A-2005-44C2-AC5E-77220C37D6B4}" />
<EventID>41</EventID>
<Version>2</Version>
<Level>1</Level>
<Task>63</Task>
<Opcode>0</Opcode>
<Keywords>0x8000000000000002</Keywords>
<TimeCreated SystemTime="2011-05-02T22:32:46.956813000Z" />
<EventRecordID>7346</EventRecordID>
<Correlation />
<Execution ProcessID="4" ThreadID="8" />
<Channel>System</Channel>
<Computer>Dre-PC</Computer>
<Security UserID="S-1-5-18" />
</System>
- <EventData>
<Data Name="BugcheckCode">0</Data>
<Data Name="BugcheckParameter1">0x0</Data>
<Data Name="BugcheckParameter2">0x0</Data>
<Data Name="BugcheckParameter3">0x0</Data>
<Data Name="BugcheckParameter4">0x0</Data>
<Data Name="SleepInProgress">false</Data>
<Data Name="PowerButtonTimestamp">0</Data>
</EventData>
</Event>
The problem occurs infrequently and it's impossible to say when it might reoccur because sometimes I can run my pc for hours on end for days without issue and then it happens.
I have scoured the net and this seems to be a widespread issue, but it also has to be one of the worst errors to troubleshoot because the symptoms are as diverse as the root issues which might be causing the error. Some people experience BSODs while others have hard hangs or have problems powering their system down properly. Pinpointing the root issue has proven to be damn near impossible for various reasons and it's much like a doctor treating a disease except every patient with the same disease exhibits different symptoms and possibly has a different virus (metaphorically speaking) which is making them sick. How do you treat something like that?
Microsoft has a knowledgebase on this issue, but it isn't helpful at all:
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/2028504
One of the things the MS kb points out as a possible cause is overheating, such as when you install a new cpu, but I've already thought of this. My cpu temps are always under control and I leave the side panel to my pc open so it can operate at the ambient room temperature (I run the AC in the house a lot during the summer). I've checked the heatsink to make it is installed properly and it's tightly mounted to the cpu retension bracket on the motherboard.
What happens when I experience one of these kernel-power reboots? I'll be using the computer, usually when the cpu is under light load like surfing the web, and I'll suddenly be staring at a black monitor screen. Before I know it the computer has already started to reboot itself. That's one of the weird circumstances surrounding the error is it never happens when the cpu is under heavy load like when I'm gaming for instance. In fact I can game for hours without problem; these kernel-power reboots happen infrequently when the cpu is under light load and now that I think about it the past four reboots in the last week and a half have happened when I was surfing the web. I know my cpu shouldn't be overheating when I'm surfng the web so really the overheating cause shouldn't apply in my case.
There are two big scenarios which make this so frustrating to troubleshoot:
[1] A minidump is never created when it happens. This limits my ability to analyze the circumstances surrounding the error.
[2] There isn't a lot of info on the net. Sure, the net is flooded with tons of posts with people having similar event id 41 problems for various reasons, but there are very few genuine solutions and I haven't found one that works yet.
I've contact AMD tech support and they are pretty much clueless. The tech at Antec has been a little more helpful and he thinks it might be the psu due to the periodic clicking noise. The psu should only click during power on/off, but never during normal operation so he suspects a faulty relay switch in the psu. Of course when I was running the 550 with the GeForce 250 the psu clicked back then and I never had one of these kernel-power reboots so why would the psu be an issue now?
A lot of people speculate that if the "bugcheckcode" is blank or has a value of 0 then it's due to faulty hardware. This makes sense since in my previous build I never had these event id 41 errors and this started happening only after I installed the upgrades so logically it's easy to deduce that one of the new components must be the culprit. The 965 was bought brand new, sealed in the box and while I did get the radeon 5770 used off of ebay I haven't had an issue with it yet. I've ran the cpu and the gpu both through diagnostics and haven't turned up anything.
Steps I have taken to troubleshoot this issue:
Checked the system for malware - some user on a forum suggested that there are viruses which can cause this error so I've done a full system scan with Microsoft Security Essentials and Trend Micro's housecall...nothing, no infections.
Checked Windows for errors - I've done the usual clean boot as well as safe mode. I've tried the sfc /scannow and windows resource protection didn't find any integrity violations. I've also done chkdsk on both of my hdd's as well as putting both drives though WD's Data Lifeguard Tools and HD Tune. Nothing.
Verfied drivers are up to date - according to someone the most common cause for an event id 41 is bad device drivers. All of my drivers are current*.
Diagnosed the RAM - Supposedly the most common faulty hardware for this error is bad ram so I did a Memtest86+ for twelve hours. No errors.
Updated the bios - Someone suggested that an event id 41 is a stepping error in the cpu and recommended upgrading the bios. Flashed the bios yesterday loading optimal defaults and still got a reboot today. Oddly enough the bios version is exactly the same after the flashing and I swear the only thing different is the build date.
Disabled devices in conflict - One user on another forum said he discovered that he had two audio drivers on the same internal high definition audio bus and he resolved his kernel-power issue by disabling one of them. Looking into device manager I found out that I also had two audio drivers on the same bus. One is the Realtek high definition audio (the integrated onboard audio chip) and the other is an AMD HDMI high definition audio which is included with the catalyst driver suite. Well, I don't use HDMI audio so I disabled the AMD audio driver and this seemed to work for a while, but it wasn't long before the reboots started happening again.
*As another user on the net stated that another big cause for this problem is incompatibility of older drivers. Well, my realtek audio driver is the most current one off of windows update, but realtek has released a newer driver on their website. I just installed the latest realtek audio driver tonight and still waiting to see if this work.
Finally, someone else stated they resolved their similar issue by bumping up their MCP, NB, and DRAM voltages slightly. I just went into the bios tonight and bumped all the voltages (Vcore, memory over voltage, nb) up a notch.
If I get another reboot in the next day or so I'm frankly out of ideas. I don't know what to do other than start RMA'ing parts and I was thinking it might be good to start off with the psu and the radeon first if I go down that route.
I'm still waiting to see if the latest realtek driver and the voltage increase will work and check whether or not the system will reboot in the next day or so, but in the meantime does anyone have any insight or ideas that may help me out?
I strongly encourage and appreciate all feedback cuz I'm about to lose my mind over this problem.