Latency v speed

[gabecz]

Hi new here.
you can see my current setup in my 'bio' once i figure it out if how to do that..
until then i just copypaste from tomshw Gigabyte Z370P D3, i7-8700K, 2x16 Corsair Vengeance DDR4 @3600Mhz, MSI RTX 3070, Corsair TX850, PCE-AC68 WiFi, some M.2 for OS, 1Tb + 2Tb SSD for games, removable 16Tb Ironwolf for ISO/Data. Bequiet DarkRock 4, Thermalright TL-C12C with led for fun
i'm upgrading some components, and have some memory questions.
DDR4 3600mhz with 18-22-22-42 (3600/18=200) vs a DDR5 6000mhz at 36 latency (6000/36=166.67) feels like a 'downgrade' in a way but i know less than i want to know about timing and ram of today.
the board i'm looking for is MSI PRO Z790-S WiFi ProSeries which can do OC 6600+ and the cpu for now would be 12700K but will go for newer later.
should i / do i need a ddr5 with 6600 and as low as it gets latency? the price jump between 6600 & 34 and 6600 & 32 is kind of ridiculously big. so rephrasing my question should i go for 6600 with 34?
it'd be nice to have a through read on these weird numbers (18-22-22-42) explained to someone who's not as dumb as a log but also not into it elbow deep.

i'm upgrading mobo-ram-cpu for now only, new good vga is oddly impossible to get nowadays and the cost of the 3 parts will be enough for now. i'm going to be ok with my rtx 3070 for now.

thanks
Gabe

 

[EarthDog]

DDR4 3600mhz with 18-22-22-42 (3600/18=200) vs a DDR5 6000mhz at 36 latency (6000/36=166.67) feels like a 'downgrade' in a way but i know less than i want to know about timing and ram of today.

The DDR5 is faster.

should i / do i need a ddr5 with 6600 and as low as it gets latency? the price jump between 6600 & 34 and 6600 & 32 is kind of ridiculously big. so rephrasing my question should i go for 6600 with 34?

I'd go for the cheaper option. Unless you're benchmarking, you won't notice a difference between those speeds/latency.

it'd be nice to have a through read on these weird numbers (18-22-22-42) explained to someone who's not as dumb as a log but also not into it elbow deep.

I'll let the experts take that on, but at a high level, you're only concerned about the first number there (CAS/CL). For all, the lower the better.

 

[gabecz]

thanks, nice.
well to be open, "good enough" is good enough for me. i wouldn't want to spend and extra $50 (even though i don't care much about money thankfully) but when i don't see the point i won't do it even if i have that extra.
must add jumping up from standard ddr4 mhz whatever that is i forgot, to 3600 made a difference that worth the investment. (mind my current setup is kind of out of balance)
i just want a system that is balanced keeping in mind, in a year i may want to have a 14th gen unlocked without having to replace the whole box to gain a few more fps. damn you gta6 and AC.

a minute of silence for my loss of 160+ hours of gameplay of ACO. lesson learned the hard way.

 

[EarthDog]

No problem!

But if you don't care about money... two things...

1. Why the bottom barrel motherboard? If it works for you (all the ports, speeds you need), no worries.
2. Why are you upgrading to a 3 generations old (12th-gen) system? Why not 14th-gen now? The gains aren't much, but... you can take that $50 you were willing to spend on faster RAM, spend $100 more total into the 14700K processor.

I don't see a point in upgrading from 12th-14th gen. Get a great system now and forgo the CPU upgrade until you need a new system.

 

[Woomack]

I don't think anyone has counted latency this way for ages. There are 50+ timings that affect that. There are also significant differences even within the same type of memory, as memory controllers and cache management affect it more than the memory frequency or main timings. One quick example is AMD's 1:1 vs. 1:2 IMC ratio or Intel's Gear 1/2/4.

If you upgrade, don't buy old stuff, unless you have a good 2nd hand deal. If you buy it for games, I recommend AMD X3D and 6000-6400 RAM at 1:1. From this point, you can only get maybe +1-2% performance using the fastest RAM. It won't change anytime soon.
If you get Intel, then get at least 13th gen - it supports higher RAM and runs at higher frequency in general, so you will see it in games. However, anything higher and unlocked runs very hot, so if it's for games, then AMD is really better nowadays.

I don't know the exact budget, but I would go with 9800X3D, inexpensive "gaming" series B850 mobo, and 6000 CL30 RAM. X870/E mobo if you need additional controllers, but the B850 supports PCIe 5.0, about the same RAM speeds, and X3D CPUs have lower wattage, so you don't need any special power design or cooling.

 

[gabecz]

...because i'm married.

well these 3 components would cost me like what? 350-400? if i go for the close-to-the-top it'd be 600. oh well. writing it down makes me see how ridiculous the difference is.

damn you. next "fight" is on you.

what would be a good 'trinity' as for mobo-ram-cpu? that is not the latest and greatest which is always highly overpriced but the 2nd/3rd line. also a reminder i will be using rtx3070 for a bit for now.

but since i have nothing else to do i'll be standing in line at bestbuy on the 20th. they open at 10am.. wish me luck.

 

[Woomack]

9800X3D prices are going down (pretty much around MSRP), and they are available without bigger problems now.

ASRock B850 mobos are inexpensive and seem pretty good. Other brands should be good too. It's more a matter of features you need (USB ports, additional controllers and more). I only noticed that some ASRock B850 can't make 6400 at 1:1 ratio. 6000-6200 1:1 works fine. Some X870/E mobos can't do that too. The performance is almost the same at 6000, 6200 and 6400, so it doesn't matter much.

32GB 6000 CL30 or CL32 RAM is enough for gaming. Maybe 48GB is a better option, as you may go close to the 30GB if you play some more demanding titles and run some other stuff in the background. I had no problems with all brands, but I guess G.Skill will be better priced than some others.

CPU ~$480
Mobo ~$200
RAM 32GB CL30/32 ~$100
It will be more than you probably expected ... ~$800 total for stuff that should last the next 5 years+

Of course, this is an option. Maybe someone else has a better idea or can suggest other components.

 

[gabecz]

thanks these infos are quite good, but tbh i'd keep the cpu down at or below $200 for now, 500 bucks for a cpu feels like i go for the top notch. and mobo would be preferred for a little less it's not that it's doing "much" but the com between cpu and ram... i need really nothing but power it on, play, then power it off. i don't even do facebook on my gaming pc just play.
i feel like amd is the way to go nowadays as you've senced of my cpu:ram timing thing i haven't been in the "business" for a while. when i played last time amd was the one you cook your breakfast eggs on, and intel was the way to go. my last cool pc before this was a bulldozer 8150 with a gts 8800 and a ton of ram it was cheap at the time, so it's been like 12 years.
but i was never and will never want to have the very best. i'll however consider. thanks for the input!

 

[Woomack]

9600X costs around $250. It should be more than enough for gaming. It's hard to go much lower on other components. You can save ~$30-50 on the motherboard going budget option and ~$20 on RAM going something more standard.