Look out R420, NV40 has 16 pipelines & 210 transistors!!!

[snyper1982]

it seems to me that people, think that the ati and nv cores are exactly the same design, so they think that they scale the same.

 

[Neeseius]

help me out here. Last time I checked DDR2 memory currently clocks higher than DDR1. But DDR1 for the time being still performs better correct?

So first off why? and secondly what does that mean for DDR3!?
And from my experience and most others very tight timings are faster than high clocks.

 

[sir_LOIN]

The ATI and NVDIA pr and marketing machine are doing their job right with all the talks about them!

 

[thirdeye]

Not only this but the entire architecture of the AGP port and motherboard is about to replaced anyway, as you can see already all this 8xagp crap is just a way to get around the already obsolete architecture of current motherboard designs. The AGP and PCI port can only accept so much information and the bus can only transfer so much information. No, these cards are not the next gen cards at all, but ATI and Nvidia may lead you to believe that. We must wait for a new architecture and DX10

wrong..AGP has bandwidth to spare, PCI-16x wont be out and bug-free for a long time, and will have to wait on DDR2 to be worked out as well..prelim specs show both companies new cards will far outpace 59xx/9xxx,

you go ahead and wait for DX10..should be any time now

edit:why is your 9800XT 3D03 score so low?

 

[Neeseius]

wrong..AGP has bandwidth to spare, PCI-16x wont be out and bug-free for a long time, and will have to wait on DDR2 to be worked out as well..prelim specs show both companies new cards will far outpace 59xx/9xxx,

edit:why is your 9800XT 3D03 score so low?

actually your wrong according to PCstats (i was actually talking about the power output of the port)"Currently PCI-Express X16 is being designed to provide up to 75W of power for video cards, as opposed to the current 25W/42W allowed by AGP8X. Most modern cards already consume more than this amount, as evidenced by the extra power connectors that appear on today's high-end video cards."

and once again "To further depreciate the value of your very expensive AGP cards, PCI-Express X16 and 8x AGP slots cannot coexist on the same motherboard. That's okay, considering ATI and Nvidia will have essentially stopped producing high-end AGP graphics cards by the end of Q2:2004 anyway..."(see no next gen cards yet)

and for one my cards score is not low (6639 is not low), and i feel terribly sorry for you if yours is any higher as you must spend all day everyday couped up against your computer desperately trying to up some numbers that ppl rely on to describe their video cards performance.

 

[tom10167]

Hey, he wasn't condescending, he was merely asking, let's all just take a few deep breaths here, meditate a bit? The cards(Along with some new TOTALLY AWESOME games) will be here soon enough and either way we're all going to benefit with awesome graphics and/or better prices on the current "old stuff."

 

[Th0r]

Neeseius, their was need to bite Thirdeye's head off, he might have got confused with 3dmark 2001.. easy mistake... or he has probaly seen other R9800's doing more..

This thread is turning out to be very nasty... if people are going to bite other peoples heads off again i am going to get a mod to close thread to stop a flame war happening...

Lets just all wait and see what happens... You never know Nvidia might take the crown, but ATi might still hold it... Lets all wait for their cards to go and see some real benchmarks...

 

[thirdeye]

"and once again "To further depreciate the value of your very expensive AGP cards, PCI-Express X16 and 8x AGP slots cannot coexist on the same motherboard."

this is an enthusiast site, I would assume most people here will upgrade to the new NV/ATi tier cards, at least mid-range. around the time the NEXT tier of cores are released perhaps PCI-16x, DDR2, and BTX will be less buggy. then will be the time to buy an x16 card. who wants to be the first to have headaches with all new standards?

"That's okay, considering ATI and Nvidia will have essentially stopped producing high-end AGP graphics cards by the end of Q2:2004 anyway..."

I'll believe that when I see it. just for OEMs the big 2 will keep producing AGP cards for a while..

"and for one my cards score is not low (6639 is not low), and i feel terribly sorry for you if yours is any higher as you must spend all day everyday couped up against your computer desperately trying to up some numbers that ppl rely on to describe their video cards performance. "

if mine is any higher I must be a pasty skinned socially inept nerd? overclocking and benching is my hobby, I merely thought your 9800 could do so much more. for the record, your 256MB 9800XT does edge my 9700p out just barely...
3D03

 

[Neeseius]

if mine is any higher I must be a pasty skinned socially inept nerd? overclocking and benching is my hobby, I merely thought your 9800 could do so much more. for the record, your 256MB 9800XT does edge my 9700p out just barely...
3D03

true true, but wut gets you up there is your processor, as i can tell by test 1. Ill get back to you when i get a water cooling kit

 

[tom10167]

Neeseius, their was need to bite Thirdeye's head off,

Perhaps the nastiness of the thread comes from people forgetting the word "no." hehehe Sort of changes the sentence.

 

[Neeseius]

he started it

 

[thirdeye]

I started it? I was pointing out that waiting for all the new tech would take forever, and the new cards that already work with tech we own will be out shortly...from early specs these cards will be a major upgrade over currently available models..DX10 or DXnext wont be out until at LEAST longhorn, maybe longer, while games that will benefit from newer faster cores will be out this year...

oh, I wasnt going to mention it before, but since I started it-

The AGP and PCI port can only accept so much information and the bus can only transfer so much information."

AGP has bandwidth to spare

Originally posted by Neeseius
(i was actually talking about the power output of the port)

does that make sense to anybody?

 

[micamica1217]

thirdeye,

after carefull rereading, I don't think anyone started "anything"....
sometimes, with disagreements there are misunderstandings.

I'm glad to see that there has not been any "flameing" going on with all the disagreements, and I hope we all will take statements made by others lightly and with some respect (even if they are wrong) .

btw....WELCOME TO THE FORUMS.

mica

 

[OC-Master]

PCI Express X16 will own AGP8X in everyway. For once, you can now eliminate that molex connector on your GeForceFX 5900/Radeon 9800 cards and take all the juice you need right from the slot.

PCI Xpress X16 not only has 4GB/s of bandwidth one way, it can also transfer 4GB/s going the other way meaning the CPU or VPU always has 4GB/s of bandwidth available to it.


OC-Master

 

[micamica1217]

PCI Xpress X16 not only has 4GB/s of bandwidth one way, it can also transfer 4GB/s going the other way meaning the CPU or VPU always has 4GB/s of bandwidth available to it.


OC-Master

not on the newer nVidia cards.

mica

 

[Neeseius]

oh, I wasnt going to mention it before, but since I started it-

quote:
Originally posted by Neeseius
The AGP and PCI port can only accept so much information and the bus can only transfer so much information."


quote:
Originally posted by thirdeye
AGP has bandwidth to spare


quote:
Originally posted by Neeseius
(i was actually talking about the power output of the port)

does that make sense to anybody? [/B]

Actually it does, quote one: The max output of the AGP port is 2.1GB, and depending on the frequency of the fsb, it is limited as well. infact that bus gets overloaded quite frequently but in short bursts.

Quote two: depending on the card, no sorry 2.1gb isn't enough

Quote three: And yes the agp port only puts out about 45 watts of power which isn't nearly enough, supported by the fact there is another power connecter for the fan.

 

[tom10167]

If we saw a 2% gain from 4x to 8x I don't really see how bandwidth even could be an issue, but at this level I think it's over my head.

 

[Sentential]

The Inquirer has comfirmed that Doom3 (retail) will ship with the NV40.

It seems that things are definatly get interesting

 

[Neeseius]

If we saw a 2% gain from 4x to 8x I don't really see how bandwidth even could be an issue, but at this level I think it's over my head.

very true, but what about ati's and nvidias upcoming cards? Plus i cant see my 9800xt only getting a 2% increase from 4x to 8x

 

[KaHNZa]

INNOVATION is a key word here. Why doesn't ATI and NV do some R&D and come up with a 64 or 128 pipeline GPU???