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Look who may be cheating now

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NewbiePerson

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Nov 8, 2001
This is 100% quoted from tomshardware.com
not sure if anyone posted it already but anyways heres something new to throw into the ati vs nvidia war.

"ATi, on the other hand, repeatedly claimed that their drivers implemented no illegitimate optimizations. The accusations leveled against ATi at NVIDIA's Editors' Day two days ago thus become that much more serious. Epic's Mark Rein confirmed that in some cases, high-res detail textures were not displayed in some areas by ATi´s drivers and that standard, lower-res textures are used instead. Randy Pitchford of the Halo development team also mentioned that there were optimizations present in ATi's drivers which are detrimental to Halo's image quality. However, Randy didn't want to go into more detail here. Finally, Massive's new DX9 benchmark, AquaMark 3, also displayed some irregularities of ATi drivers in the overdraw test."
 
btw this isnt aimed at the poster,just everyone in general.

everyone cheats!
its called optimization,some just get cought.
both companys do it btw.

also YOU do it when you run 3dmark yourself when you adjust the settings on the drivers.mipmap and other things.hell some people even bench while seeing artifacts on-screen also.

i just wanted to point these things out before the war starts.
benchmarks are just that benchmarks,nothing else.

also i dont care about which company does what.as long as the **** works is all i care about,that and price. i just picked up a 5900ultra cheap,and i know it will be beating some fan boys 9800's easily.

the thing thats bad which people dont yet get is "good press" will cost you more in the long run when you buy that product.
bad press ultimatly lowers the prices.

it isnt cheap to live with the "IN" crowd :D
 
Overclocker550 said:
nvidia cheats much more and they still cant match ati
Click to expand...

Best to keep them out of divorce court then!!

Of course they optimize, they want to sell gpu's
 
Overclocker550 said:
nvidia cheats much more and they still cant match ati
Click to expand...

i agree with deathstar13

the point of the thread is that everyone cheats like deathstar13 said, they are competitors trying to gain the upperhand, perhaps these multimillion dollar companies don't consider "optimizations" to be cheating but thanks to these forums and hardware reviews we can know what the better products are

there is no brand/manufacturer loyalty, that's just silly, we as consumers and overclockers want the best products for cheap, i don't see people hesitating to buy a nforce2 board if they want socket A
 
Something that I thought was pretty obvious but maybe it needs to be said. Ones loyalties come from somewhere, usually, hmm.... I think - Yeah, It might be you like what X company has to offer over Y company. Loyalties shouldn't be set in stone. Example, I've always considered Nvidia over ATI, ATI had some serious driver issues(issues that I'm currently dealing with) and I just liked Nvidia more, they seemed cooler(styling etc.) You think I'd buy a 5600 now? pshhhhhttttttt........... :) With that said, I don't really care, it's good ATI's cheating, just because it helps even out the playing field, which is probably run by corrupt referees and managed by two-faced coaches. :p
 
now let's see what you don't quote.....

""Unreal Tournament - Detail Textures - More "irregularities"?

Further irregularities allegedly concern Unreal Tournament 2003. Epic's Mark Rein confirmed that the ATi driver defaults to the standard low-res textures in some cases, even when the detailed high-res textures are selected. In the UT2003 screenshots we took for the anisotropic filtering quality comparison further down in the article, we were unable to perceive such an effect. Then again, the viewing angles in those scenes are not equivalent to those shown in NVIDIA's in-game scenario. We will investigate further and post our own screenshots shortly.

In Halo pixel-shader quality comparison screenshots, on the other hand, we could not corroborate any irregularities as alleged by Randy Pitchford.""

it goes on to say....

""Conclusion Image Quality

ATi comes out on top when FSAA is enabled, thanks to its rotated-grid algorithm, which can smooth jaggies on nearly horizontal and vertical edges visibly better than NVIDIA. Where anisotropic filtering is concerned, NVIDIA's new driver v52.16 offers better quality, although there are some exceptions (see aniso comparison). ATi's filtering algorithm seems to be much more aggressive than NVIDIA's - at least if the results from Demirug's D3DAFTester can be believed. As far as we could tell, there was no reason for criticism of either card in the DX9 games Halo and Tomb Raider. ATi and NVIDIA produce nearly identical output. ""

now as for the overdraw, this seems to be more of a gama type differance....I have done so much testing with a 5900u and my 9700pro....not me or my friend could realy tell the differance between the two cards with many drivers as for the overdraw.
one more thing, I can not reproduce the lack of smoke in aquamark....
I'm not saying that THG didn't have this problem, I'm just saying that my friend and I who tested and viewed every result, could not replicate any lack of smoke using my 9700pro as pics listed on an earlyer page.

full read to my quotes.

mica
 
well since i see a few of us that have posted in this thread have been around the ocing scene a while id like to point out a few things.

anyone remember the gf3Ti200-500 series?
nvidia had ati on the ropes and begging for forgiveness.the 8500 was a decent card but everyone screamed "ati drivers suck" and im sure they did,but to own an ati then was just as taboo as buying a 5600 is now.

then the gf4 line came out and i personally thought ati was done for.i already knew the 8500 wasnt a bad card but even with better drivers it wasnt not even a close match.

again everyone stayed clear of owning ati-except the savvy owners why wanted a great card on the cheap.
the 8500 is still a great card today.

this all changed as the 9700/9500 series rolled out.
and a total reversal of roles happened.
now noone will be cought dead with a nvidia card now and then brag about it,why? whats what we are told to do and believe thats why!

even people to this day would rather buy a 9600xt over a similierly priced 5900non-ultra becouse its the "better product"?
NO it isnt!the 9600xt is good and fast but not even in the same playing field as a 5900.but why do they want the 9600xt then?

becouse the 9800xt is king and the 9600xt is its little brother.
its follow the leader.has anyone even seen the 5700ultras putting a good whipping on the 9600xt? i have and its not a whooping but a good battle.but are they getting respect? no.

i thought amd/intel fanboyism was bad but its nothing compared to the video card market.and whats worse the people who speak the most and the loudest have NEVER touched one of these cards.
they get all their info from reading what people feed them.

granted most people in this post know this,but is intended for anyone new reading the thread.
i dont know what this has to do with driver optimizations/cheating but i feel better now anyhow :D
 
well said
I remember someone said i got ripped off for selling my 9500 pro and actually getting an even trade and then some for my fx 5800.
$168 i sold my 9500pro for $175.
 
NewbiePerson said:
well said
I remember someone said i got ripped off for selling my 9500 pro and actually getting an even trade and then some for my fx 5800.
$168 i sold my 9500pro for $175.
Click to expand...
what you didnt buy what everyone else did? oh snap.

dude i cant wait for my 5900ultra i paid $200 for shipped to smack some 9800pro booty around :D

alot of this and i dont mean to pass judgement is kids.a seasoned pc junky or ocer usually see threw all this gobbly-goop marketing bs.and can make a rational decision.

i have one thing i like better than buying the greatest and latest.
its beating those things with lesser parts and half the price.
 
deathstar13 said:
what you didnt buy what everyone else did? oh snap.

dude i cant wait for my 5900ultra i paid $200 for shipped to smack some 9800pro booty around :D

alot of this and i dont mean to pass judgement is kids.a seasoned pc junky or ocer usually see threw all this gobbly-goop marketing bs.and can make a rational decision.

i have one thing i like better than buying the greatest and latest.
its beating those things with lesser parts and half the price.
Click to expand...

wow that's agreat price.....$200.00 for a 5900ultra is about $150.00 cheaper then newegg prices.

give me a linky please, that would make a great back up card.

mica
 
this has been brought up in the past and this is almost 2 months old and in the computer world/driver world that is a fairly long time.

and then its also toms hardware.
 
micamica1217 said:


wow that's agreat price.....$200.00 for a 5900ultra is about $150.00 cheaper then newegg prices.

give me a linky please, that would make a great back up card.

mica
Click to expand...
sorry dude was sold used in our classifieds.
 
I am glad ATI came hot on the scene, even though don't personally own any of their cards. When 3dfx was eaten by nvidia I was ****ed. Not because I loved 3dfx or hated nvidia, but because now there was only one guy in town that had the fast stuff, and you better believe he's gonna start charging you big time for it eventually. Then ATI came in and brought some competition back to the scene.

BTW, wtf went wrong with 3dfx anyway? With the lead they had in the market they should have been able to ride that pony all the way home. Instead they just kept doling out the same crap in a new package...wasn't the voodoo basically just voodoo2 sli in a nice AGP package? And wasn't the voodoo5 still 16bit only? What were they thinking?
 
Memories of yesteryear
From what I remember they went under primarily because they did not have the cash to compete. I definately went to the tnt cards myself, but I fell in love with gaming the vodoo 2 way. Remember the frame rates of less than 30/sec, lol, times change thats for sure.
I wish they had the backing, it would be nice to have seen a three way contest, pricing wouldn;t change but the speed of new releases would.

But not only is 3DFX gone, so is CLQ :(
 
just because ATi cheats its a different story

nvidia cheats everyone disses them and that, saying bad things

ATi cheats and u all say everyone cheats to many fanboys here :rolleyes:
 
Steven4563 said:
just because ATi cheats its a different story

nvidia cheats everyone disses them and that, saying bad things

ATi cheats and u all say everyone cheats to many fanboys here :rolleyes:
Click to expand...
im the one who said everyone is cheating.
and i guarentee you im no fan boy.

i think you need to reread the thread to fully understand it.
ive owned whats best for the $$$ not what you or anyone else says.i have a mind of my own and use it.

so happens ive owned as many ati cards as nvidia and a few 3dfx and a cirrus thrown in for good measure.

when i stated everyone is cheating i was pointing at the user in specific, not a company.
 
From those quotes posted, it dosen't seem to me like ATi is cheating... Optimizing definatly, but cheating? Hardly.

What's the difference between the two? Well, the only two things I can think of at this moment are the following: Lowering IQ to a visibly substandard level, and Overly aggressivley optimizing one application regardless of IQ.

What did ATi do? They replaced high resolution textures with lower resolution ones. That alone could be considered a cheat if the IQ is visibly affected. However, they go on to find that the IQ is NOT affected. Since IQ is not effected, this alone could not be considered a cheat. My guess is they're replacing high-res textures that are a long distance away with lower-res ones, which don't need to be high-res in the first place.

What about nVidia? Well, I haven't been into their scene so I don't know of any IQ issues other than the HL2 Fog issue. That is visibly detrimental to the IQ, and could be considered a cheat. I'm not going to call it one though since I don't know enough of the situation beyond that single fact. Also, they have ligthing issues in Halo which turn off lights which are DEFINATLY supposed to be seen. Could also be considered a cheat based on the severity of IQ drop.

JigPu
 
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