Looking for the second best vid card

[batboy]

My research this morning has revealed the card I bought is called "non A" (the GPU is a 300 where the rest have the 300A). The non A (lower power limit) cannot be flashed with a BIOS from a 300A card. Once you do a google search, you'll find lots of people that tried and failed. Currently, you would have to find a another non A card that has the higher power limit (which is not allowed by Nvidia because they have to approve all BIOS updates) or hack a non A BIOS to allow a higher power limit. Here is a partial FAQ I found that explains this a bit more.

Question: What does Non-A mean?
Answer: There are two GPU variants: TU102-300 (1E04) and TU102-300A (1E07). Factory overclocking is prohibited on the former, it has a boost of 1545 MHz and a maximum power limit of 280W. The latter chip has varying factory overclocks and power limits up to 450 W, flashing a 300A based BIOS onto a 300 GPU and vice versa is not possible. Manual overclocking is possible on both.

Question: How do I know if I have a 300 or 300A card?
Answer: Check the list above, but it may be incorrect as the early batches of the ASUS Turbo card had the A chip, recent reports indicate later batches are the correct 300 chip since the card was always advertised as not having a factory overclock. To be certain, check the Device ID in the main window of GPU-Z, if it shows 1E04 it is the 300 chip, if it shows 1E07 it is the "binned" 300A chip.

Question: How do I know what power limit my card has?
Answer: In GPU-Z, click the Advanced tab, then General and finally choose NVIDIA BIOS, under the Power Limit section you will see Default and Maximum.

Question: What does the power limit actually do?
Answer: Several years ago we had full voltage control, then NVIDIA introduced a power and temperature limit. Once a 300 card reaches its maximum 280W power usage it will restrict the voltage: for instance, my 280W card could not exceed 0.913v running a game in 5K resolution, this meant it could not reach a higher than 1860MHz core clock although the GPU has a hard limit of 1.093V, therefore it's far from its true potential.

Its a $200 price difference?!! Wow....... I was thinking maybe $50... doesn't seem worth it at that cost, and especially the time involved.

Yeah, I keep waffling back and forth. I've seen several posts that suggest that the really high voltages really don't help much. Honestly, I still like benchmarking, but if I don't get that last 1% of performance squeezed out, I guess that's not the end of the world. I said the "A" version is $200 more, well I rounded up. It's really $180 more (but figure in a few gallons of gas and turnpike tolls and it's close to $200 total. They do have an open box (XC version) for only $50 more than what I have invested. I have bought open boxes before, but it's a bit risky with high end vid cards. You never know what was done to it or why or why it was returned (probably because it didn't OC as high as the purchaser wanted).

EDIT: I guess maybe I'll think about the vid card situation for a while this morning and make a decision later today. I probably should do a bit more research. I'm having trouble believing nobody has found a solution yet.

 

[EarthDog]

No idea on used cards.. it's a crapshoot. I'd still imagine any NV card with a 129% limit versus 112% will overclock higher on water.

Yes, voltage doesnt really matter...but you are under water, runningncooler which means higher and sustained boost clocks. Voltage or not, you want that power limit headroom, especially under water.

I merged the double post. Please edit to add.

 

[Zerileous]

280W to 450W is a big difference.

I'm still new to the current limited overclocking approach used on a lot of things, but I do know with my Vega my best theory for throttling under water is the current limitation (it's definitely not temps). Again for my Vega, increasing power from 300W to 375W got me more clock speed for sure, but less than 100MHz so far.

 

[Witchdoctor]

I am not up on the two different chips, however for $ 200.00 I think I would throw the water block on and see what you can get

If not the only recourse is to send it back and get the (A) chip ...

Just seems like that is one heck of a premium to pay

I would see if anyone else has this version and see how they are making out

 

[batboy]

If I stay with EVGA, I see no reason to get the FTW3 version which has a triple slot design and three fans on a larger cooler and a non-reference design.

There are actually 3 versions of the XC (Black, XC, and XC Ultra). The Ultra version is another $50 more than the XC version. The Black has a boost clock of 1545, XC is 1635, and XC Ultra has a slightly better binned GPU with a boost core speed of 1650. The XC and XC Ultra both have updated BIOS that allow 129% power limit. So, there's not much difference between the XC and XC Ultra except a tiny bump in boost speed and a slightly better binned chip.

I'm leaning towards returning the RTX 2080 Ti I bought and getting the XC version. Mainly because of the neutered power limitation leaving a sour taste in my mouth, but I also discovered another reason. On the 2080 Ti cards, you can get up to three games with your purchase ( Battlefield V, Anthem, and Metro Exodus). I forgot about that bonus perk and the sales guy never mentioned the free bonus games which according to their ad is worth $179 if purchased separately. Well look at that, almost exactly the difference I'll have to pay to upgrade. So, if I have to pony up an additional $180 to get the XC version, which is also the value of the games (supposedly), then you better believe I'll make them include the games too.

 

[Zerileous]

I think this is nVidea trying to create more demand for higher end AIB cards with this limited approach. I doubt the GPUs are truly binned, but maybe some cursory binning is done. I think more people going with liquid cooling / aftermarket coolers and realizing that the custom PCB cards or higher end cards are really just expensive coolers is causing AIBs to suffer, and they want to find a way to artificially add value to the higher end products by limiting the lower end ones. Maybe I'm just becoming overly cynical, but I'd be pretty frustrated if I was in your shoes.

If you like those games then that's a good way to look at it. Certainly higher profile titles than the ones the came with my AMD card

 

[EarthDog]

Those cards are binned to the clockspeeds... but 99% of the base model will reach XC Ultra speeds anyway so it's not like it is truly binned silicon - just for their lower tiers which the majority reach anyway). The kingpin silicon is thoroughly binned... best of the best there.

 

[batboy]

280W to 450W is a big difference.

280w to 450w is indeed huge. But, where did you got the 450w number? The RTX 2080 TI says 250w in the specs. Do the math for 112% power limit and that's 280w like you said. Ok, I'm with you so far. If the A versions have a 129% power limit, my calculator says 322.5w (basically 320w like I see elsewhere on the net).

This Black Edition is going back tomorrow. I'm tentatively getting the EVGA XC version, but I'm leaving my options open. If the deal sounds too good to be true, there's bound to be a catch.

 

[Zerileous]

280w to 450w is indeed huge. But, where did you got the 450w number?

From your post this AM: https://www.overclockers.com/forums...est-vid-card?p=8112421&viewfull=1#post8112421
You're right though, that does sound a bit unrealistic now that I'm fully awake.

 

[batboy]

Ok, that was a quote. Whew, thought I had another senior moment and typed the wrong number. There is one card that does allow up to 380w (if I remember right, maybe Galax?). I looked it up since I don't trust my memory, it was Galax, but it was with a modded BIOS. Yeah, not sure where that 450w number came from, just thinking of that many watts going through the vid card conjures up the sound of frying bacon in my mind.

 

[Zerileous]

Pretty sure the folks at Gamers Nexus put that much through a Vega 56 https://www.gamersnexus.net/guides/3382-rtx-2070-versus-power-modded-vega-56, but that's besides the point.

Sorry for confusing you, it wasn't wanting me to quote a quote, but I could have been more clear that it was such.

 

[batboy]

It's all good, just wanted to make sure that we were on the same page.. Back in the old days, we warmed up the soldering iron and did warranty voiding volt mods. Nowadays, seems like I'm a bit more conservative with voltage.

Tomorrow, I'll definitely return this 2080 Ti Black for the XC version (and get my bonus games). Guess I'll have time to test it on air for a few days (the water block I ordered still has not shipped yet).