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Microsoft Locks System Updates for Windows 7, 8.1 on Ryzen, Kaby Lake Systems

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Alaric

New Member
Joined
Dec 4, 2011
Location
Satan's Colon, US
I posted your link in the (former) Zen Rumor thread as the subject came up there. With proper credit given to the source, naturally. :thup:
 

c627627

c(n*199780) Senior Member
Joined
Feb 18, 2002
Intel said long ago that Kaby Lake was only for Windows 10.

The title of the thread seems to suggest that someone installed Windows 7/8 on Kaby Lake and can't update it.
Did not read the link, but my question is: did someone install Windows 7/8 on Kaby Lake at all?
 

Alaric

New Member
Joined
Dec 4, 2011
Location
Satan's Colon, US
M$ said they wouldn't go out of their way to support 7/8.1 on new processors. This looks like they are actively locking those systems out of everything. I wonder if they understand why "Microsux" is such a commonly used term?
 

c627627

c(n*199780) Senior Member
Joined
Feb 18, 2002
Intel said their Kaby Lake processors would only be compatible with Windows 10 long before Kaby Lake was to be released.
This is really the only reason why I bought Skylake or else I would have considered waiting longer.

There's nothing a Kaby Lake can do that Skylake can't, the jump in architecture is not a quantum leap but as time goes on, future chipsets will be hard to ignore.
But this is irrelevant since that won't happen before 2020-2023 when Windows 7/8 reaches end of life.

And at that time, it's an educated guess that updates will not be mandatory on Windows 10 and that with certain modifications, it will be okay to use Windows 10 after Win7/8 reach End of Life.
And by extension, the new chipsets too.

You do not have to get Kaby Lake if you want to use Windows 7/8. Older chipsets are perfectly fine.... It's good news that both Windows 7 and 8 now work without update problems on them as of this month [March 2017].
 

Alaric

New Member
Joined
Dec 4, 2011
Location
Satan's Colon, US
Update works fine on my rig. But there is a big difference between not producing OS specific drivers (which is what they said) and going out of their way to lock older OS out of updates entirely. They got their feelings hurt because W10 is basically a failure. They are losing market share with W10 and can't find a way to stop the bleeding. So go full petulance and pull this stunt. I know I've "leased" my last M$ OS, ever. I'll have to learn Linux if I live long enough, or someone will produce an alternative, but they get not one more dime from me.
 

c627627

c(n*199780) Senior Member
Joined
Feb 18, 2002
First of all, from the get go only Windows 10 works on Kaby Lake and Windows 7/8 do not.
So the use of the word 'updates' is incorrect because it implies that Windows 7/8 at some point could work on Kaby Lake, which Intel said it won't, before the chips were even made...

There is zero reason for you to buy or look at Kaby Lake, I think that's established.
Everything you need, you can get from Skylake.
Microsoft has a different business model now. It is the reason their stock moved after many years.
 

Dolk

I once overclocked an Intel
Joined
Mar 3, 2008
Back when this was a rumor I made a post about why this is important. The action Microsoft is taking is correct but they are not executing it correctly. I don't believe they should hard lock users out of updates and the like, but there may be actual rational meaning behind this.

CPUs can not continue to support outdated ISA's. Plane and simple. Instruction sets are added and removed, improved upon, and optimized. If today's CPUs are suppose to still use instructions that were utilized back in DOS, oh man that would change make the CPUs even more complicated than they are. A change has to happen and Win10 offers a good platform to build upon. ***** all you want, but this is a needed change in the industry. Suck up and move to Win10. Or wait until all you guys can get Linux instead. I don't care, and these companies don't care. Because guess what, all those things you hate about Win10 are happening on all systems.
 

Alaric

New Member
Joined
Dec 4, 2011
Location
Satan's Colon, US
I don't expect M$ to cater to me and write new code for systems they want to dump. It has been their reprehensible strong arm tactics that have turned a lot of users against them. They created a niche of people who despise them and bad mouth them publicly at every opportunity. Windows 10 flat sucks and doesn't provide the support for the things I do with my computer, so I won't be using it. Windows 7 is the last OS that supports my needs. My niche was disregarded by M$, so I joined another niche. Their attitude and tactics made enemies, not converts. Locking out updates for OS' that are still "officially" supported is bulls***. I'm not asking them to write code so I can have all the features of Kaby Lake. They are going out of their way to actively push users to a s*** OS that some of us don't want. It's the same crap as the GWX fiasco. Will they miss my money? No. Do they care how many people I've talked out of Windows 10? They might if they knew how large that number is. The folks I've steered away from it have spread the word far beyond my reach. Do I care if their stock goes up? No. Do I care if Bill Gates and Company plummet into obscurity and poverty? Yeah, I'd like to see that. That's the effect they have had on some of us. It's stupid and greedy and not everyone is blind to the motives or apathetic regarding the methods.
 
OP
Kenrou

Kenrou

Member
Joined
Aug 14, 2014
For making updates smaller but forcing them on us regardless of connection ? nothing we haven't thought they wouldn't do, i would guess the average user not on a unlimited bandwidth contract hasn't been happy since they installed Win10 and that's not about to change anytime soon. The issue is what they loosely claim is a "priority update" is more often then not NOT a priority in any way shape or form, like tweaking telemetries or adding stuff to the Windows shop :-/
 

Alaric

New Member
Joined
Dec 4, 2011
Location
Satan's Colon, US
The apologists will explain why it's a wonderful thing and we should all be grateful that Daddy Gates cares about us so much that he does these things for our own good, whether we want it or not. Or how the money we spent isn't as important as the money M$ wants. F*** M$.
 

mackerel

Member
Joined
Mar 7, 2008
Gates bashing might have been relevant years ago, but he's long gone. I don't know, nor care, who's running MS these days. What I do know is, my current main desktop might be the last main desktop to run MS OS. Every action they take is making it less appealing for me. Not saying I wont still have MS OS systems (probably just for gaming), but not using one as main will be a milestone. What I want from MS is a great desktop OS. Their attempts into forcing mobile and console-style gaming are not helping in that.

Even their cash cow, in the corporate environment, I'm seeing them get squeezed. Mac proportions are ever rising on the higher end, and thin clients are hitting them from below. Many of those still run Windows, but they don't have to....
 

c627627

c(n*199780) Senior Member
Joined
Feb 18, 2002
Skylake can easily take us to Windows 7/8 End of Life.

Windows 10 today is not what it was two years ago and it most definitely will not be the same in 2023 when Windows 8 expires.

When there's no choice in 2023 but Windows 10, we'll take a look at where it stands because it won't be what it is today. So why not just stay on Windows 8 and overclocked Skylake until 2023?
Kaby Lake was *never* meant to be for Windows 8 although I always wondered, if we could force install Windows XP on Skylake, could we force install Windows 8 on Kaby Lake, theoretically? Then dual boot Windows 8 and 10 on Kaby Lake.
 

mackerel

Member
Joined
Mar 7, 2008
There's no "force" about it. Windows 7, and by implication 8.1, can be installed on systems with Ryzen and Kaby Lake. Ryzen is a tiny bit more difficult as you need to have USB3 support added unless you can PS2 it, but Kaby Lake is probably closer to Skylake. At least, KL on Z170 would be no more difficult than Skylake on Z170 which I've done many times without modifying install files. I don't have experience with Z270.

All this talk, has made me want to dig out my hackintosh install I prepared a while back, but never got around to trying out in anger...
 

Alaric

New Member
Joined
Dec 4, 2011
Location
Satan's Colon, US
Windows 7 has no problems with USB 3.0 on Skylake. If needed I can tweak my chip pretty close to an OC KL so that isn't a problem, either. I do find it interesting that when someone defends M$' approach, all kinds of folks come out of the woodwork to slam them. Yes, we are a minority, but we seem to be a vocal and foul tempered minority. LOL
 

c627627

c(n*199780) Senior Member
Joined
Feb 18, 2002
There's no "force" about it. Windows 7, and by implication 8.1, can be installed on systems with Ryzen and Kaby Lake.
So if you can install Windows 8 on Kaby Lake, then what's prevents you from manually installing the monthly rollup and technically not needing Windows Update to do it?
 

mackerel

Member
Joined
Mar 7, 2008
So if you can install Windows 8 on Kaby Lake, then what's prevents you from manually installing the monthly rollup and technically not needing Windows Update to do it?

This is a conscious decision by MS to make the life of those on the so called "unsupported" route more difficult. I spend enough time working around actual Windows features, I don't need them adding to the list unnecessarily.

I was thinking, given the Win7 WU problems of the recent past, if wsusoffline would be a workaround were this to be the case anyway.
 

||Console||

Member
Joined
Jul 26, 2004
It might not be supported but KL can have 7/8 installed just fine.

Why does everyone hate w10 I haven't had one problem with it. If I can't get my key to transfer to a new system I might even buy it (last os I bought was windows 95).
But will probably be one of those online OEM keys you can get for 20$
 
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